FOHrensics

[El Presidente]

Steve is working with Greg to put together a subforum called FOHrensics. 

FOHrensics will do things such as the ongoing Mould study.  

We will call for subjects of interest from members and work out if we have access to the contacts / technical ability to complete a proper assessment.  We will call for your help in designing the parameters/scope of any study.  

Where we have the ability, we would select two or three projects at a time.  Steve and Greg will flesh out the FOHrensics format.  Those projects underway would be pinned to the FOHrensics forum  as we move through the aspects of  "testing" design and then testing itself. not everything will be about testing. It may just be about processes. 

So cast your mind to some cigar related forensic studies you would like to see. It doesn't have to be about the physical cigar itself but anything to do with our hobby itself.  Consider it a type of cigar "mythbusters" 

 

Over to you. Give it some thought 

[GavLew79]

I think I have one...

IS BRAND-PROFILE/'MARCA-DNA' "REAL"?

This study would involve obtaining a "chemical fingerprint" via mass-spectrometry...if you have access to a university research lab or chemical analysis company. I guess if we distill it to its simplest form; Taste is just the human perception of the various compounds within the chemistry of the cigar. 

I would suggest a statistically significant sample of, say, corona gordas or robustos and profile them to see if there are statistically significant differences in the chemical makeup.

It might pay to also analyse many samples from the same box, code or marca to see what sort of variation occurs within the same vitola and marca.

This might prove, dis-prove or throw the debate wide open on the theory that "they are all the same but with different bands on"!

Thoughts?

Cheers

[madandana]

I've got one. Flavors, does the Monti really have any sort of DNA of coco? Is there any Cherry in RyJ?  Do these flavors really exist in our cigars? Where do they come from? How come only a percentage of smokers experience these flavors?

[Fuzz AI]

There are more pressing matter at hand than the mould study.

Does Ken have anything besides Springsteen albums? Does Ken ever where shoes for vid reviews? Has Aus Post finally comes to collect all their missing plastic tubs?

[rguinn]

How about a study on the break point at which beetles start to develop? Maybe a small stock of never frozen cheap sticks under different conditions to see what triggers an infestation? 

[Bartolomeo]

Wrappers...how much do they play a part in the flavor of a cigar or characteristics, I have a theory but would like some more experimentation on it...

[garbandz]

How many cigars from a batch rolling 42 rg versus 54 rg.?

[MaxG]

9 hours ago, GavLew79 said:

I think I have one...

IS BRAND-PROFILE/'MARCA-DNA' "REAL"?

This study would involve obtaining a "chemical fingerprint" via mass-spectrometry...if you have access to a university research lab or chemical analysis company. I guess if we distill it to its simplest form; Taste is just the human perception of the various compounds within the chemistry of the cigar. 

.... <snipped>

This might prove, dis-prove or throw the debate wide open on the theory that "they are all the same but with different bands on"!

Thoughts?

Cheers

 

This is interesting, and I'd like to see the experiment as well, but I think the experience of the yearly blind tasting test tell us loads.  While no one says all the cigars taste the same, it's proven time and time again that without the band and box, almost none of us know what the hell we're smoking.  How many reviews have we seen of people blind tasting cigars they've smoked and loved for years where they said "this cigar bears no resemblance whatsoever to" what it turns out to be?  Even with the "cheat" of narrowing down the possible choices based on the size of the unlabeled cigar, a 60% success rate makes one look like a genius.  It still doesn't sound right to me, but all of the data says we all "smoke the band" virtually all the time.  

Humans are so freakin' weird.

 

- MG

 

[shaffer22]

I’m curious about the effect of ambient RH on the smoking experience. 

At what rate does ambient RH actually affect the moisture content of the tobacco? And by how much?

And does ambient RH affect oxygen content in the air to the extent that it would affect burn?

This could also tie into questions about dry boxing. How long, and at what ambient RH, should one dry box to reach a desired moisture content.

Relatedly, what’s the optimal moisture content for smoking? This would start to become subjective. But it would be intersting to vary moisture content in cigars from a single box and then rate the burn, enjoyment, etc. in those cigars. 

[PapaDisco]

1 hour ago, shaffer22 said:

I’m curious about the effect of ambient RH on the smoking experience. 

At what rate does ambient RH actually affect the moisture content of the tobacco? And by how much?

And does ambient RH affect oxygen content in the air to the extent that it would affect burn?

This could also tie into questions about dry boxing. How long, and at what ambient RH, should one dry box to reach a desired moisture content.

Relatedly, what’s the optimal moisture content for smoking? This would start to become subjective. But it would be intersting to vary moisture content in cigars from a single box and then rate the burn, enjoyment, etc. in those cigars. 

Agree with this.  With some modest equipment and a few sacrificial cigars it would be interesting to graph the change in cigar water content vs. the change in the surrounding temperature and atmospheric water (holding rH constant).  Then test the performance of different kitty litter/boveda/whatever as moisture or temperature changes, see how fast they can keep up.  Test cigar moisture in a full box of rH65% cigars as the box is left out in 50%rH conditions at 70F; see how fast the cigar's internals change, that sort of thing.

Do a set of these tests on something standard: like a robusto?

[Hayden]

6 hours ago, MaxG said:

 

This is interesting, and I'd like to see the experiment as well, but I think the experience of the yearly blind tasting test tell us loads.  While no one says all the cigars taste the same, it's proven time and time again that without the band and box, almost none of us know what the hell we're smoking.  How many reviews have we seen of people blind tasting cigars they've smoked and loved for years where they said "this cigar bears no resemblance whatsoever to" what it turns out to be?  Even with the "cheat" of narrowing down the possible choices based on the size of the unlabeled cigar, a 60% success rate makes one look like a genius.  It still doesn't sound right to me, but all of the data says we all "smoke the band" virtually all the time.  

Humans are so freakin' weird.

 

- MG

 

While we may be bad a picking individual cigars blindly I think we must also account for degree of similarity. For example I think many would perform well if the task was to put blind cigar into different groups of similarly flavoured cigars. For example I don't think I would mix up a RyJ and HdM blind or not. I might confuse and Bolivar Belicoso Fino and a VR Unicos blind though. 

[dominattorney]

Cheating, since I just posted a thread on this, but a definitive study in smoke mitigation systems for smoking inside. There seems yo be a wide variety of opinions in the matter. 

[PapaDisco]

29 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

Cheating, since I just posted a thread on this, but a definitive study in smoke mitigation systems for smoking inside. There seems yo be a wide variety of opinions in the matter. 

Right.  We're all guessing on this.  Do we need 1,200 QFM for a 1,000SF room?  More?  Less?  That would be handy to know.

[zeedubbya]

I want to know what else is in Cuban cigars other than Cuban tobacco. I’ve heard all kinds of stories, including misting wrapper leaves with a proprietary slurry of water and Cuban rum.

Second this. Be curious to see a breakdown of the organic and/or inorganic items in a few cigars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElPuro]

Yikes. Is Buffett bankrolling these tests? Or perhaps there are cigar-smoking mad scientists willing to offer up their services for a few (boxes) of sticks? 

[El Presidente]

17 hours ago, madandana said:

I've got one. Flavors, does the Monti really have any sort of DNA of coco? Is there any Cherry in RyJ?  Do these flavors really exist in our cigars? Where do they come from? How come only a percentage of smokers experience these flavors?

We may be able to do a mapping of the palate for say 10 members. 

They can review a cigar (same box/same roller/same blend). 

We can see how their palate structure related to the below and their review. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, ElPuro said:

Yikes. Is Buffett bankrolling these tests? Or perhaps there are cigar-smoking mad scientists willing to offer up their services for a few (boxes) of sticks? 

That is why we will be hand selecting the "tasks" in order to fit the resources at hand.  Naturally we will seek to expand those resources as we continue to develop access and contacts with the local scientific community. 

[El Presidente]

Just now, El Presidente said:

That is why we will be hand selecting the "tasks" in order to fit the resources at hand.  Naturally we will seek to expand those resources as we continue to develop access and contacts with the local scientific community. 

in the Oz vernacular that means......"we will get as many scientists in different fields on the piss"

[SirVantes]

Here's an idea for a simple, next-to-no-cost study on the conventional wisdom of "acclimating" your early-awaited shipment of cigars.  Do we really have to wait 30-60 days, or is that lousy one ROTT just bad luck?

1. Rob chooses a box of cigars (a 50 cab, if he is really dedicated).  The box is obviously perfectly stored to Rob's satisfaction. To Rob's palate, the cigars are "acclimated".

2. Greg splits to box into 2 anonymized lots. One lot goes into the post to a willing FOH member, for a round trip ie. it goes to country X, as if it was a customer order, and the member sends it immediately back to Rob.  One lot stays in storage.

3. Upon returning to Australia, the travelling lot goes back into the proper storage conditions.  

4. Greg assigns random numbers to each cigar. Rob smokes a random cigar every couple of days, without knowing whether the cigar has travelled or not.  All he needs to do is decide whether the cigar is "ready" or "needs to be acclimated".  Greg dutifully records.

5. How many of the stayed-at-home cigars did Rob think needed acclimating?  How many of the travelling ones were just as ready as those that stayed?  

6. After how many days do they all get judged "ready"? (This bit is probably less scientific, since Rob may subconsciously think after Y days that they should all be ready).

It's not an earth-shattering study, but it may be of service to those who just can't stand to wait.  If the conventional wisdom is supported, then we really should exercise self-control.  If it's not supported, then no need to feel guilty/foolish for having one ROTT - if it's lousy, it's not due to your impatience.

[shaffer22]

4 hours ago, SirVantes said:

Here's an idea for a simple, next-to-no-cost study on the conventional wisdom of "acclimating" your early-awaited shipment of cigars.  Do we really have to wait 30-60 days, or is that lousy one ROTT just bad luck?

1. Rob chooses a box of cigars (a 50 cab, if he is really dedicated).  The box is obviously perfectly stored to Rob's satisfaction. To Rob's palate, the cigars are "acclimated".

2. Greg splits to box into 2 anonymized lots. One lot goes into the post to a willing FOH member, for a round trip ie. it goes to country X, as if it was a customer order, and the member sends it immediately back to Rob.  One lot stays in storage.

3. Upon returning to Australia, the travelling lot goes back into the proper storage conditions.  

4. Greg assigns random numbers to each cigar. Rob smokes a random cigar every couple of days, without knowing whether the cigar has travelled or not.  All he needs to do is decide whether the cigar is "ready" or "needs to be acclimated".  Greg dutifully records.

5. How many of the stayed-at-home cigars did Rob think needed acclimating?  How many of the travelling ones were just as ready as those that stayed?  

6. After how many days do they all get judged "ready"? (This bit is probably less scientific, since Rob may subconsciously think after Y days that they should all be ready).

It's not an earth-shattering study, but it may be of service to those who just can't stand to wait.  If the conventional wisdom is supported, then we really should exercise self-control.  If it's not supported, then no need to feel guilty/foolish for having one ROTT - if it's lousy, it's not due to your impatience.

As someone who has trouble exercising self-restraint, I like this a lot.  

[CaptainQuintero]

The whole black light thing, that plume is flourescent under it while mould isn't.

 

I'm guessing that now that means one type of mould is and another isn't?

[CrankYanker]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

We may be able to do a mapping of the palate for say 10 members. 

They can review a cigar (same box/same roller/same blend). 

We can see how their palate structure related to the below and their review. 

More tests like this to see how people identify their palate compared to other members.  How can people have a better palate recognition through this process as well.

[Fugu]

Virtually 99.9% of what we "taste" in a cigar will be defined by the nose not the palate/tongue.

[Cubadust]

I’m curious about the effect of ambient RH on the smoking experience. 
At what rate does ambient RH actually affect the moisture content of the tobacco? And by how much?
And does ambient RH affect oxygen content in the air to the extent that it would affect burn?
This could also tie into questions about dry boxing. How long, and at what ambient RH, should one dry box to reach a desired moisture content.
Relatedly, what’s the optimal moisture content for smoking? This would start to become subjective. But it would be intersting to vary moisture content in cigars from a single box and then rate the burn, enjoyment, etc. in those cigars. 

This would interest me as well


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[ayepatz]

Can we finally discover why Sancho Panda tastes of Driftwood?