Why do some bad mouth cc's?

[M777]

I have been smoking cc's for around 6 years and nc's for around 10 years. I was always hesitant to try cc's because of negative stuff I read written by biased authors and by b&m owners/employes.

After trying my first cc out in Mexico, an R&J short churchill I became instantly hooked. I got back home and researched sources and started collecting different marcas. I am still smoking "mistakes" from my years of nc stockpiling but now mostly stick cc's. My goal is 80% cc's and 20% nc's (only certain Fuentes and pardons that I still enjoy).

I think people bad mouth cc's based on bad experiences with fakes, false info from other smokers who probably have never smoked a habano, the thought of cc's being cost prohibited, ect.

What are your thoughts?

[polarbear]

In my experence the main reason people bad mouth CC's are varied.

Sometimes its due to certain NC manufactures and retailers attempting to downplay the qaulity of the cigars they have no chance of selling. The majority of the NC industry has been trying for decades to capture that 'cuban profile" and are yet to manage it.

Sometimes is due to uneducated people buying woeful fakes while abroad and having bad experences with them.

Sometimes, if the person has been smoking cigars for a long time, they may still be tainted but the terrible construction and qaulity that was had during the early 200's

Sometimes its due to the fact because American consumers cant easily access CC's, they think that they're not that good due to never having smoked one and hearing all the reason mentioned above.

Sometimes its because CC's of old had the stigma attached to them that they NEEDED to be aged before they could be enjoyed. In this age of "I want it now!" I can understand how that could turn people off.

Sometimes its just because they cant find a CC they enjoy, it does happen

[jdo2110]

I've found that those who don't have access tend to bad mouth the most. They may have had one or two, but so many times those are fakes. I also bump into folks that LOVE the huge ring gauges. In the U.S., it's like the more ostentatious the better. No self respecting man wants to be seen holding a PC.... At least that's my impression. These same guys (much like myself in my early cigar years) may have invested a lot in NCs; did research, developed favorites, dropped a lot of coin. It is a little disheartening when you taste a CC and realize... Oh ****.... WOW! It's like having to start all over. Personally, I loved it, but I still have buddies that are reluctant.

All of this plus MANY other reasons. These are just what I've observed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mncz]

I have met a few colleagues that always pull the "overrated" card. Those same people also love to mention that the NC (and sometimes DC?) farms all use Cuban seed. When I attempt to respond that the terroir should be taken as the foremost factor they shrug and say that they still enjoy good NCs and DCs and that CCs are mostly just hype.

How do you guys respond to smokers like this? (Besides offer to have a smoke with them and gift a CC).

[Skyfall]

Well, I typed out a really long, poignant and articulate response....no really I did, but then I accidentally punched the "back" button, and lost it all. So to paraphrase:

"There are a lot of dumb people walking around, taking up air on this planet, and also a lot of dumb people that believe anything they hear, and a lot of dumb people who do about anything to make themselves feel better and cooler about what only they know about, as well as, a lot of dumb people who don't know anything about what the reality is of what anything really costs"

^ pretty much sums up what I typed.

[Skyfall]

I have met a few colleagues that always pull the "overrated" card. Those same people also love to mention that the NC (and sometimes DC?) farms all use Cuban seed. When I attempt to respond that the terroir should be taken as the foremost factor they shrug and say that they still enjoy good NCs and DCs and that CCs are mostly just hype.

How do you guys respond to smokers like this? (Besides offer to have a smoke with them and gift a CC).

Oh God, those are the worst kind!!!!!!!!! (After pious B&M owners, of course)

The seed argument is about the dumbest and most illogical conversation I could ever have with a human life on this planet! Then you add the all hype propaganda into the mix, and I just want to punch my self in the face sometimes.

The only thing more dangerous than ignorance, is the ability to convince yourself that ignorance is the right answer!

[mncz]

Oh God, those are the worst kind!!!!!!!!! (After pious B&M owners, of course)

The seed argument is about the dumbest and most illogical conversation I could ever have with a human life on this planet! Then you add the all hype propaganda into the mix, and I just want to punch my self in the face sometimes.

This is an argument that I have been engaging in with the head sommelier at our restaurant. I have proposed to him a vitola-for-vitola trade in the next few days (although I have a feeling I'll be getting the short end of the stick, so to speak).

[alloy]

WHAT!!!! So y'all are telling me that cuban seed Camaroon, Dominican, Ecuadorian, Honduran, Nicaraguan tobacco doesn't taste the same as cuban seed tobacco grown in Cuba?

My world has come crashing down.....

[shlomo]

It is possible that some people truly prefer NCs. No reason to call them ignorant, or dumb, or say they are nothing more than greedy business owners.

[canadianbeaver]

^^^ x2. I am done discussing this stuff as well as fakes, cost, etc. life is too short. More power too ya and more cc's for us. If you would like to try one some time, come on by.

The end.

CB

[bradbrennan]

Well, I typed out a really long, poignant and articulate response....no really I did, but then I accidentally punched the "back" button, and lost it all. So to paraphrase:

"There are a lot of dumb people walking around, taking up air on this planet, and also a lot of dumb people that believe anything they hear, and a lot of dumb people who do about anything to make themselves feel better and cooler about what only they know about, as well as, a lot of dumb people who don't know anything about what the reality is of what anything really costs"

^ pretty much sums up what I typed.

There's that grumpy 80 year old man again How does the discussion go when you're smoking with someone who appears to taste nothing in his cigar and could basically smoke anything??

[DrunkenMonkey]

I think there is a good reason to badmouth B&M owners who habitually go on at length about how 'overrated' Cuban tobacco is. There's a B&M owner I know who likes to wear a t-shirt that says "Cuban Schmooban" (not sure if I spelled that right). I asked him about the shirt, and he explained that non-Cuban cigars are now much better than Cuban cigars. Then he recommended a Rocky Patel cigar for me. I bought one and gave it to a guy I struck up a conversation with as I smoked my unbanded bolivar. Thing is, he's a nice guy, and totally enjoyable to talk to on any other topic, but he really has a problem with Cuban cigars. I have a feeling, after looking over his offerings, that it wasn't the poor quality of the Cuban tobacco that was the main reason he didn't like Cuban cigars.

As Upton Sinclair said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

To be clear, I want him to do well, and I'm more than happy to do my part to patronize his business, buying drinks, buying (if not smoking) a cigar whenever I'm there, etc. But come on, please don't expect me to take him at his word that his problem with Cuban cigars is the quality, or his taste in cigars. He was selling $10 bundles of Honduran 'seconds' in his shop. Surely the quality of Cuban cigars would meet that bar, to be able to compete on quality with these 50-cent Churchills? But of course you could be right. Maybe he really does prefer the 50-cent Honduran factory rejects to Cuban cigars. I guess let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

[polarbear]

I've got a friend here who prefers non Cuban cigars. I've given him a number of decent Cubans in an attempt to broaden his horizons. He still prefers his NCs. There is the odd cigar I give him that he enjoys but his humi is still 99% NCs cause that's his taste.

I don't begrudge anybody over what they like to smoke. If they like it, more power to them

[Stogieninja]

I'm perfectly fine with folks who tried both, have access to both, and prefer NCs. No issues there and I know a few guys like that. More power to em.

However, I find that more often than not, for those who rant about CCs being inferior, it's sour grapes.

[garbandz]

"He knows the cost of everything,and the value of nothing."........comes to mind when I hear about a US cigar shop owner badmouthing CCs.

Show me one of them that would not JUMP at the chance to be the first in his area to legally sell CCs.

stogieninja said:

"However, I find that more often than not, for those who rant about CCs being inferior, it's sour grapes"

Amen...

[Puros Y Vino]

To each their own. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I started off smoking NC's..some were outright horrible, some were OK. None were exceptionally "gotta have a box" good. The reasons are varied, as stated above. Sour grapes due to access. Harbouring ill will towards a "commie nation", though no one is fazed that America's shelves are stocked with Chinese goods, American B&M's having to buy into the fallacy that NC's are as good or better than CC's because their business depends on it. Pretty much everything you see in the NC market copies the CC market. General Cigar outright bastardizes many Cuban brands, then other makers rip off the look and feel of the bands, labels, etc. They have their own EL and RE's now too. Funny how the EL bands look very similar. Cuba for better or worse, Set the standard for the cigar industry. They were the first to be commercially successful and even the word cigar is pretty much synonymous for with "Cuban cigar". Even the average non smoker equates "cigar" with "Cuba". Every little marketing angle an NC uses ends up mimicking or paying homage to it's Cuban roots whether they know it or not.

/rant off.

[Skyfall]

This had nothing to do with preferring one cigar or another....or NC vs CC. The thread was about people who give excuses as to why CC's suck and why they are "hype" or the cuban seed logic.

This wasn't about which cigar is better.....

[Skyfall]

There's that grumpy 80 year old man again How does the discussion go when you're smoking with someone who appears to taste nothing in his cigar and could basically smoke anything??

That's not who I smoke with.

[CaptainQuintero]

WHAT!!!! So y'all are telling me that cuban seed Camaroon, Dominican, Ecuadorian, Honduran, Nicaraguan tobacco doesn't taste the same as cuban seed tobacco grown in Cuba?

My world has come crashing down.....

To be fair, if you have the chance pick up some Winston Churchill Lancasters, it's a sub-brand by Davidoff and the line is all Cuban-seed, filler binder and wrapper. It genuinely does taste like Cuban tobacco, twang and all. Not overly complex but straightforward Cuban tobacco flavour.

It's the only NC that I've smoked that can pass for a medium quality Cuban cigar. I can't remember where the tobacco was grown though.

[srbbones]

I suspect that some have a palate so developed on NC that they are "conditioned" in a way to associate those flavors with excellence heavily. There is a prominent youtube reviewer who,. I suspect, is a "victim" of this

[garbandz]

Have you noticed how many NC makers describe their products as "Cubanesque" ?

Or name their brand after something Cuban? Or something that sounds Cuban?

When you find a non cuban that tastes like a Cuban,please let me know............

"I suspect that some have a palate so developed on NC that they are "conditioned" in a way to associate those flavors with excellence heavily"

I think this is spot on,I know I had to get over the heavy,intense flavors of NCs to really appreciate Cuban sticks.Now I seldom smoke NCs except when cutting the grass............

[garbandz]

To be fair, if you have the chance pick up some Winston Churchill Lancasters, it's a sub-brand by Davidoff and the line is all Cuban-seed, filler binder and wrapper. It genuinely does taste like Cuban tobacco, twang and all. Not overly complex but straightforward Cuban tobacco flavour.

It's the only NC that I've smoked that can pass for a medium quality Cuban cigar. I can't remember where the tobacco was grown though.

A musty Cuban,to be sure......there are some similar flavors and aromas............

[JoeyGunz]

To be fair, if you have the chance pick up some Winston Churchill Lancasters, it's a sub-brand by Davidoff and the line is all Cuban-seed, filler binder and wrapper. It genuinely does taste like Cuban tobacco, twang and all. Not overly complex but straightforward Cuban tobacco flavour.

It's the only NC that I've smoked that can pass for a medium quality Cuban cigar. I can't remember where the tobacco was grown though.

haven't had one in a long time but I do remember them being pretty damn good

[sw15825]

I think the reason they are put down is because of the lack of experience of the smoker/consumer. Some then buying fakes and hearing the stories of in consistency. Also the NC retailers have to sell their products why in the world would they say Oh cuban cigars are so much better than what I sell. Lastly the people just belive it because its easier.

Some are afraid to risk buying cubans also, in the U.S.. So they just keep believing what they have heard instead of finding out first hand what they really like.

[shlomo]

There is a bias on both ends. Those who cannot legally sell Cuban cigars have a bias and their best interests in mind when they say that NCs are "better" and CCs are just hype. But, that doesn't mean they are lying, or wrong, or ignorant, or buying fakes, etc....It could simply mean they like NCs better.

The other side of the coin is that forbidden fruit analogy and there are MANY people who enjoy CCs simply because of the status it affords them and also because they are illegal in the US. That fact alone leads people to think they are smoking a glorious, mythical, Cuban cigar, when really its just a JLP.