Popular Post El Presidente Posted March 26 Popular Post Share Posted March 26 Heart goes out to the victims but it seems like a minor miracle that more are not missing. This week has reminded me that Life is so fragile, be you working/driving on a bridge or enjoying a concert at a theatre. Live every moment. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFolgers Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 You said it Prez. Everyday is a gift. My family and I travel down I-95 to Orlando on the yearly. After seeing this, going through Jacksonville just became a whole lot more worrisome 😨.. Do hope for the best for the missing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Shocking that an entire bridge can be brought down so easily. Apparently the ship was under the control of harbour pilots, but reported they had lost control of the vessel. The anchor was dropped as per emergency procedures, but the vessel still hit the southern support column at around 6-7 knots. Luckily traffic had been stopped before the vessel hit the bridge when the emergency had been raised by the crew, otherwise there could have been more casualties. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 A strategic bridge to hit by accident. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevrknow Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 24 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: A strategic bridge to hit by accident. Kind of what I was thinking. From an engineering standpoint, bridges do not "just fall" like that. Sure a "hit" section can get extremely damaged but that length? My second observation was that the video I saw showed a massive explosion when hit. Now from the cameras viewpoint that I saw it hit containers. Not the ship. All of the fireworks packed up front? What am I missing here? Serious question. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Even if the whole bridge did not fall; any part of it falling is job done. Plenty of naval ships are stationed there. Not to mention the financial impact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pmo13 Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Nevrknow said: Kind of what I was thinking. From an engineering standpoint, bridges do not "just fall" like that. Sure a "hit" section can get extremely damaged but that length? My second observation was that the video I saw showed a massive explosion when hit. Now from the cameras viewpoint that I saw it hit containers. Not the ship. All of the fireworks packed up front? What am I missing here? Serious question. The “explosion” seen in the video was most likely a combination of concrete in the pillar being pulverized and water splashing upwards. Very few things in this world have as much force behind them as a 100,000+ ton ship. Even at only a few knots, the lateral force imparted on a structure meant to withstand vertical loads is more than enough to easily demolish that bridge. Think of a wrecking ball hitting a building and then make the wrecking ball a skyscraper. As for why the whole span when down, it has to do with the design. When one column was destroyed, the weight immediately and unevenly shifted to the other sections instead of being contained or redistributed, which caused a domino effect. Really worst case scenario all around. 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevrknow Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Maybe, but bridges are designed to with stand multiple forces. Vertical, horizontal ( wind shear ) and uplift. Very interesting. I will sit back and watch this unfold. Kind of like watching structural steel melt from jet fuel heat. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SenorT Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 I had friends ask me (engineer but not bridges). I noted the Talmadge bridge in Savannah has the supports as far out of the waterway as possible. I wondered about the Tampa bridges- apparently they have some sacrificial barricades outside the main supports. I thought this was a good listen: https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1241043488/an-infrastructure-expert-weighs-in-on-the-baltimore-bridge-collapse I hate that we live in a world where the immediate response is some sort of conspiracy theory. More likely Murphy and allocation of scarce resources. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fuzz Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 If you look at the design of the bridge, there doesn't appear to be enough protection around the support column to prevent an impact. Even slowly moving, that vessel has a helluva lot of mass, therefore the impact force would have been immense. Shipping has changed in the 30 odd years since that bridge was built, and it was probably never imagined the size of vessels that would be used near it. More dolphins should have been in place to prevent ships from coming near the bridge. And the design itself, being a truss bridge, would have also been an issue. Most people will not remember when this bridge, the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, was taken out by a vessel accidentally hitting a support column over 40 years ago. Since then, dolphins were put in place to prevent another incident. If they build a new bridge, I'm guessing it will be a cable stay bridge, with the span being a lot wider, so the support columns can be placed closer to the shore. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fuzz Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 You can see from these pics that the bridge support columns would never have survived getting hit. Compare the bridge pier and how many dolphins are used around the Sunshine Skyway Bridge to the Francis Scott Key Bridge. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Dongle Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 It's also the design of a continuous truss. And trusses rely pretty heavily on all the parts working together. You remove a critical support and trusses just crumble. It's a downside of the design, but allows for building a bridge of that size and length with less material and pillars, which when you are dealing with an estuary that big, kinda makes it easier. (Not a civil engineer, I am an engineer who had to take statics and dynamics, which involved building miniature bridges lol). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li Bai Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 hours ago, SenorT said: I hate that we live in a world where the immediate response is some sort of conspiracy theory. More likely Murphy and allocation of scarce resources. I hate it too, that's where politics and media playing us for fools for decades have taken us all around the World. The only thing we do know for sure is that people died and this is tragic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 hours ago, SenorT said: I hate that we live in a world where the immediate response is some sort of conspiracy theory. More likely Murphy and allocation of scarce resources Yep. Beyond all the wild conspiracy theories, it's much more believable to me that it's the same reason planes are currently being made on the cheap. Cutting staff, cutting training. Cutting safety regulations. Cutting hours, cutting pay. = Corporate greed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, 99call said: Yep. Beyond all the wild conspiracy theories, it's much more believable to me that it's the same reason planes are currently being made on the cheap. Cutting staff, cutting training. Cutting safety regulations. Cutting hours, cutting pay. = Corporate greed Cutting staff, cutting training. Cutting safety regulations. Cutting hours, cutting pay. = Corporate greed In this backwater you need to take a course to use a ladder on any commercial site. It if it is 29 degrees and 75% humidity?.......under union (CFMEU rules), site closes down. I can post 50 more "safety" idiocies. so let's remove: Cutting safety regulations Cutting staff, Cutting Hours?/Cutting Pay? 4.5% average wage increase last year in Pay. 10.1% in construction industry. 6.1% increase in paid hours worked over the year. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/labour/earnings-and-working-conditions/employee-earnings-and-hours-australia/may-2023 Productivity? -3.9% I know who is taking who for a ride in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, El Presidente said: this country I'm not sure what is true for Australia, and I will take your word for it. In the UK wages in line with inflation have been stagnant for 20 yrs. I don't know if it's true of the US, but up keep of equipment, safety procedures, training in the UK has been hulled out over 15 years of austerity. Everything is shambolic and only just about functioning. Yet the shareholders get a kings ransom come hell or high water. Record amounts of shit pumped into the British waterways...here have a gold star. I would be interested to see with what the investigation comes up with. For the record. And we have covered this before. I'm not anti business, capitalism, efficiency/profit making. I am anti-cronyism, white collar crime, corruption, disaster capitalists etc. I simply think systems failure or greed is a lot more believable cause than wild conspiracy. For example ridiculous right wing outriders are trying to suggest Boeings current problems are down to diversity hiring. Just pathetic toxic gas lighting. Of course it's nothing to do with the company cutting corners for more profit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Webbo Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 9 hours ago, Nevrknow said: Maybe, but bridges are designed to with stand multiple forces. Vertical, horizontal ( wind shear ) and uplift. Very interesting. I will sit back and watch this unfold. Kind of like watching structural steel melt from jet fuel heat. While is very difficult to change someones mind about things like this as someone who works in the steel industry and studied physics and metallurgy I would just point out that the steel did not melt. Steel melts (becomes fluid) around 1620 deg C but importantly above about 770 deg C a construction grade steel loses much of its strength and integrity and simply bends, this is known as the Curie Point. The temperature of the fire in the twin towers was in excess of the Curie point for steel and this temperature is easily achieved with a fuel based fire and the oxygen drafts that occurred. 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, 99call said: I would be interested to see with what the investigation comes up with. Government was quick to say what it wasn't (malicious intent) without any investigation. How can they be so quick to say that? "Nothing to see here" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99call Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: Government was quick to say what it wasn't (malicious intent) without any investigation. How can they be so quick to say that? "Nothing to see here" I'm sure it will be a case of, initial comment of there is no outstanding evidence of foul play. Then the cargo company will have to perform an internal investigation into all the steps and system/staff failures that led up to the crash. Needless to say it's unlikely top brass will be held to account, and some poor shmuck will get scapegoated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post joeypots Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 I heard that there was no evidence of malice known yet. We don’t know what happened and government officials, so far, have made that clear. It’s awful how a deadly disaster that will cause horrendous disruption to ordinary people and the country instantly inflames inherent bias and consequently political and racist conspiracy theories. Right now it’s an accident. There have been quite a few recent transportation failures, air, rail, road, and now maritime. Maybe we need a little more oversight around here. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hammer Smokin' Posted March 27 Popular Post Share Posted March 27 Man, the internet is full of losers. Everything is a conspiracy. It must be difficult waking up every day afraid to look in a mirror. If nothing else this should improve crash guards on critical piers. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 17 minutes ago, joeypots said: I heard that there was no evidence of malice known yet. We don’t know what happened and government officials, so far, have made that clear. It’s awful how a deadly disaster that will cause horrendous disruption to ordinary people and the country instantly inflames inherent bias and consequently political and racist conspiracy theories. Right now it’s an accident. There have been quite a few recent transportation failures, air, rail, road, and now maritime. Maybe we need a little more oversight around here. What specific racist or political conspiracy theories are being promoted about this event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmo13 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: What specific racist or political conspiracy theories are being promoted about this event? Log on to Twitter, my man. It’s an absolute shit show. The crew crashed because they’re Indian, the harbor pilots were DEI hires, the bridge was in disrepair because the mayor is black, it’s an ISIS attack etc… My personal favorite was that the ships name coincides with one from a recent movie (it doesn’t) so therefor, Obama caused it. You name it and someone is spewing it out and getting thousands of likes/retweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypots Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Quote Matt Schlapp on Newsmax admits he's "no expert" but tries to blame the Baltimore bridge collapse on "drug-addled" employees and covid lockdowns Quote On Fox Business, anchor Maria Bartiromo falsely suggested the “wide-open border” could have something to do with the collision, a clip of which circulated on X. No link to immigration has been made by officials. Did I say, specifically that this stuff has been repeated here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Presidente Posted March 27 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 27 4 hours ago, Pmo13 said: Log on to Twitter, my man. It’s an absolute shit show. This is why Tik Tok is so good. These malcontents would be tracked, corralled, arrested, jailed and re-educated to do something useful like making shooaways. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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