Kirby in Cuba

[MrFolgers]

16 minutes ago, Ford2112 said:

Much like cigar reviews on here,half will like him and half wont.

For the lot that don’t like him, they sure do spend a lot of time watching and commenting on this thread….  

[PuroDiario]

13 hours ago, 99call said:

As many people have pointed out on this thread (including myself) his endeavour as standard deserved praise and respect. That said, there is nothing wrong with suggesting areas in which he maybe misguided, or hitting bum notes.  

My overarching comment is, I would just wish he would do what he wants to do, void of ass kissing or asking which is the correct salad fork. Or what is the right hat to wear to Lords. It's like torture watching someone idolise people who are absolute self serving scumbags. 

That's the point. He is better than the people he is desperate to ass kiss. He just needs to realise that and cut loose.

The quality and work ethic of his output 100%. The originality and likeability is 0%.

I think we are generally in agreement when discussing the fact he built a business independently and that’s fairly important part of my view. So glad you see it this way too.

My observation however also tries to address the basis of the vast amount of criticism, as well as the assumption you underpin your argument that “he is not doing what he wants to do”.

1. On him being a tool and else points: 
There is plenty of content on protocol, sartorial(ism?), “fine” living, luxury, and infinite amount of irrelevant/stupid/mundane and else out there (printed, digital, audio, video, etc.). What has changed is the distribution, now is a click away before it was not, and also the barriers to become a creator are non-existent today (you are a $100 phone away). This means that “niches” are more accessible from the “outside-in” for the public to observe, and also there is no editor / filter for whom should acquire distribution (which perhaps some times allows lesser than historically experts to become niche-leaders). All in all, is irrelevant, if you want to know how 1% change in relative humidity impacts your smoking experience when performing a hand stand on top of your lake cabin, you can ask FOH. The vast majority of cigar smokers don’t even consider most of these things or if the last 1/3 of their cigar was tasting like macadamia nuts because they dry-boxed with half-opened tube their LCDH Ciudad Juarez Cohiba for an extra half a minute. His channel is not a cigar channel, he is much broader and shallow guy than deep and narrow. He has a lifestyle content business, as I see it around “fine-things” he likes. Now he likes cigars and he feels go well with the other stuff he does.

So my points are: 1) he clearly has an audience he caters to when speaking and acting how he acts, 2) he clearly is no expert in the world of cigars (but he definitely does not claim to be for the 7 videos I have watched or so and the Laguito tour I actually thought was above average relative to other stuff I have seen), 3) the Cubans content I think speaks more to the character he is building around fine-things enjoyment being Cuban cigars more so of that in the US/after price hikes/his audience, 4) there is definitely value in his content from several angles: showcasing brands and individuals who stand for care, quality and craftsmanship; showcase to a broader (less deep in cigar niche) audience personalities such Jenna Freeman which is a female boss in an industry with plenty of clichés around macho culture, 5) many here take him as a douche rich wannabe, but I don’t think the content he is creating is that at all, he has a lifestyle channel. (Don’t think this comparison is relevant at all and is like Messi vs the guy in the village amateur team; but just think of what Anthony Bourdain was an expert in and the evolution of his content and “channel” - again not even attempting the comparison).

 

2. Why do we establish he is kissing ass? Or not doing what he wants? Seems to me he is doing exactly what he wants, and he just stays in character… Likeability is a subject observation, he has circa 1mm subs in YouTube, and many more binge watching his stuff. So I guess he is extraordinarily liked and/or found interesting or something else to many. 
 

Content creators and entertainment for the most part, today and historically are not deep subject matter experts. I think of Kara Swisher, who personally I don’t enjoy at all, she has made a huge career of talking her book, and other people’s book, 99% of the time having no clue or an extremely shallow understanding of the topics and in general is talking topics that are transversal themes of our day and age to a huge platform influencing thinking. others like Joe Rogan who has been recently discussed in the forum also choose their topics clearly under a pattern, though at least limits his speaking more. 

All in all I am saying that he has an audience, the guy is self made, built a multi faceted business cross monetizing content, commerce, sponsorships and else. Who cares if he is pedantic, or he thinks mold is plume! Don’t watch! But I do not really think he is kissing ass at all or pretending to be a rich captain of industry. He is a dude of Texas with a fetish for these stuff he discusses, married to a Mexican woman who is doing exactly what he wants. 

[Ford2112]

1 hour ago, MrFolgers said:

For the lot that don’t like him, they sure do spend a lot of time 

In my defense I tend to yap on a lot of threads. Pretty sure Kirby Allison couldn't care less what I think of him. Which is good because as you can see... 🔔 ...

[El Presidente]

 

 

[TacoSauce]

I think @El Presidente is having a lot of fun with this thread 🤣

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, TacoSauce said:

I think @El Presidente is having a lot of fun with this thread 🤣

That is harsh 

I have said it before and I will say it again. I applaud anyone who puts up quality content regarding our hobby. 

It may not be to your taste, however, Kudos (if grudging in some cases) should be given. 

[Ford2112]

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

It may not be to your taste, however, Kudos (if grudging in some cases) should be given. 

The Sahakians seem to like the guy. 

[El Presidente]

17 minutes ago, chasy said:

Hamlet and Rob should start a channel!

1. I wouldn't get a word in. 

2. Editing Hamlet for profanity would take Steve 5X as long as shooting the video. 

3. My lawyer (Paul S)  just retired. I currently have no one to send the "cease and desist" letters too. 

[Ford2112]

5 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

It's refreshing to see there are still gentlemen like Kirby in this world 😀.  Perhaps some dudes are insecure and mad because of the way Kirby carries himself.

If anyone looks at that dude and feels insecure they are total soyboys

[Corylax18]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:04 PM, Arabian said:

At 12:50 Kirby asks the production manager about the Cohiba fermentation process and the guy answers its a secret I cant tell, I might be getting this wrong, but the same guy took another group to the fermentation room where the leaves are placed in oak barrels?!. 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 2:52 PM, LizardGizmo said:

Danilo described the fermentation process to us in detail which we discussed on Episode 76 and we will be sure to ask more questions when we interview him at Laguito in a few weeks.

If anyone has any other questions or info they'd like to learn or hear about from Danilo, please let me know!

I'll save you the time. The secret is; There is no secret. There are no "Cohiba Farms", no "Cohiba Processing Facilities", no "Cohiba ageing warehouses." The tobacco that goes into Cohibas gets the same treatment, at the same facilities, by the same people as the tobacco that goes into every other top tier, long filler brand. 

I've toured EL a half dozen times and spoke to two different master blenders and two different Factory managers about all of it. One of my best Cuban friends has (and still does) worked multiple mid level management positions at the factory. The 4th fermentation is just a story, for marketing purposes.

I have been told, by several of the people mentioned above that the production manager at EL does get the first phone call when a new batch of tobacco is deemed "ready" by a storage warehouse. So, theoretically, the very best tobacco that Cuba produces goes into cigars rolled at EL. All of the cigars rolled at EL. Whether it's Cohiba, Trinidad, Montecristo or Partagas. 

One thing everyone seems to completely gloss over is the production process for the 75% of Cohiba that aren't rolled at EL. EL is a TINY factory. Two rolling galleries, neither of which is ever full. They might be able to pump out 10 or 15% of the volume that La Corona does. People tour all the Havana factories on a regular basis, yet not one frame of video or photographic evidence has ever emerged of the mythical Oak Barrels or "4th fermentation" room at any of these factories. Because they don't exist. 

So, while I agree with many that EL is the premier factory in Cuba, I disagree that the premium level starts and stops at the Cohibas rolled there. 

I'm not at my desktop now, but I will post up a couple photos later today of the Oak Barrels at El Laguito. They are shoved against the back wall of the blending room and lined with black plastic trash bags. I was told that they use them to "rest" Medio Tiempo Tobacco when they get a batch in. But they are small and there are only a few of them, so there just isn't enough room to store, let alone ferment, all the tobacco that goes through the facility. Tobacco takes months, or years to ferment at high temperatures and high humidities. Temperatures and Humidity levels that would would cause the Oak to break down and start fermenting as well. 

[Corylax18]

Here is the photo I referenced in my post above. It shows the blending room at El Laguito and the grand total of 15 or 16 Oak Barrels. They are only about half the size of a whisky barrel and many of them where empty. The employee at the back is looking for a full one to show us some Medio Tiempo. 

[LizardGizmo]

17 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

One thing everyone seems to completely gloss over is the production process for the 75% of Cohiba that aren't rolled at EL. EL is a TINY factory. Two rolling galleries, neither of which is ever full. They might be able to pump out 10 or 15% of the volume that La Corona does. People tour all the Havana factories on a regular basis, yet not one frame of video or photographic evidence has ever emerged of the mythical Oak Barrels or "4th fermentation" room at any of these factories. Because they don't exist. 

So, while I agree with many that EL is the premier factory in Cuba, I disagree that the premium level starts and stops at the Cohibas rolled there. 

When we were told of the magical twenty-one day fourth fermentation process, I certainly didn't believe it could have any impact on the tobacco in such a short period of time. Even if there is a secret room somewhere in a warehouse, which - like you - I don't believe exists, the volume couldn't be handled by those barrels nor do I think it would accomplish much. I think that room on the tour is purely for show. I will push Danilo on this when I see him and try to extract the truth to the best of my ability - even if it's only alluded to - and we can poke holes in it here.

If we are to believe that Laguito is getting the finest tobacco for Cohiba and the other cigars they roll there, and they are responsible for providing materials to all the other factories who roll Cohiba/Trinidad, it's certainly not being done in this room, and as you said, likely not at all.

[LizardGizmo]

3 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

If Cohiba is getting the finest tobacco then why do they even make Cohiba shorts and other mini machine made cigarettes?   Doesn't make any sense to me. 

They waste nothing. Every scrap of usable tobacco is put into a sellable product one way or another. Cigarettes are also a whole other segment of tobacco consumers they reach.

[LizardGizmo]

3 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

So in a sense these scraps from long fillers are "superior" in quality than any other marcas since they are supposed to get the best quality of leaves. 

Short filler Cuban products have almost nothing to do with the premium long filler products and are not produced at the same facilities. When I said they waste no usable tobacco, I mean island-wide which is collected and is used in machined production at a later time, alongside a variety of other sources.

[Fugu]

Like with most factories, and in particular this one, EL is no almacén, no tobacco warehouse. Raw tobacco processing isn’t done there. As such, El Laguito will be the wrong place to physically look for the “fourth fermentation” process.

That said, in my opinion, and as far as my understanding goes, said extra step (of variable duration, and only done in Seco and Ligero) is more like an extra period of rest and ‘melding’, a very mild fermentation at best, in barrels (or better put “barrel-like” containers). At some point, tobacco will eventually be “outfermented”.

And, I do concur with @Corylax18 this isn’t a step that‘s been exclusive to Cohiba. At least there were times, when it had been done for tobacco that went into other brands as well (quite similar to the infamous Medio Tiempo...🙄).

Anyway, @LizardGizmo, it would indeed be nice to get some in-the-know info and update on this!

[Ford2112]

Check out my new series, Robert in his truck...

Eat your heart out Kirby Allison! This is the grassroots movement called just be yourself.

[Hammer Smokin']

Kirby will only hang out with him if Kirby thinks it'll improve his image and brand. 

[Ford2112]

That dude wouldn't hang with a pleb like me, come on now.

[Ford2112]

1 hour ago, VeguerosMAN said:

You are assuming. Why do you think he's not being himself? The question is, would you hang out with a guy like Kirby? 

Hell I'll hang out with anyone once. But if I have the choice I'm picking the Sahakians or that Freeman gal.

[Corylax18]

8 hours ago, LizardGizmo said:

Short filler Cuban products have almost nothing to do with the premium long filler products and are not produced at the same facilities. When I said they waste no usable tobacco, I mean island-wide which is collected and is used in machined production at a later time, alongside a variety of other sources.

Bingo! The below photo is also from EL, but I have seen similar at other factories. Its hard to see from the photo, but there are TONS of stems mixed in with the scraps. I would hope they either sort it or use this stuff mostly for cigarettes. I will say that on more than one occasion I've gotten a wicked nicotine buzz from Trini shorts, so maybe they just leave the stems in there. 

 

8 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

So Cohiba short filler machine cigars don't use Cohiba long filler scraps, right?

None of the short filler cigars use scraps from a particular brand. In a single rolling gallery, the rollers could be rolling half a dozen Marcas/Vitolas at the same time. One roller could be rolling COROs, the roller or row next to them might be rolling Partagas P2s, the next over from them could be rolling Monte 4s. It just depends on what tobaccos and the quantities of each the the master blender has to work with. At the end of the shift, they just gather all that scrap tobacco up and put it in burlap sacks to be moved to the MM cigar factories. 

[Corylax18]

8 hours ago, Fugu said:

That said, in my opinion, and as far as my understanding goes, said extra step (of variable duration, and only done in Seco and Ligero) is more like an extra period of rest and ‘melding’, a very mild fermentation at best, in barrels (or better put “barrel-like” containers). At some point, tobacco will eventually be “outfermented”.

Yeah, I tend to agree here. I think it might just be a bit of a translation or definition difference. You could theoretically ferment the tobacco a hundred times, but at some point it just turns into compost. More isn't always better. People have been fermenting tobacco for what, 150 years now? I know every producer has their preferred temps, humidities and length of time for each step, but I think the range in each category is smaller than we realize. 

[PigFish]

13 hours ago, Ford2112 said:

That dude wouldn't hang with a pleb like me, come on now.

I’d smoke with you brother! 

[Ford2112]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:33 PM, PigFish said:

I’d smoke with you brother! 

Anytime my man!

[LLC]

I thought the last Cuba video with the El Laguito factory tour was one of the best videos of that factory tour I’ve seen.


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[ha_banos]

4 hours ago, LLC said:

I thought the last Cuba video with the El Laguito factory tour was one of the best videos of that factory tour I’ve seen.

Still not watching it. It's got to that stage now.

Anything to do with access?