EAR: Retailer woes.

[El Presidente]

 

EAR = Email assistance required 

"so the short of it is that I have been blacklisted by a major online retailer who you know because I had the audacity to seek a chargeback on a  box  due to the first two cigars tasting like petroleum and the retailer refusing to exchange on the basis of taste. I received the  "don't bother me again email".  I have been a client of his business for over 22 years. Out of hundreds of box purchases, I have had a total of maybe 3  issues in that time and believe that such a history is pretty good in the retail world. I have been well looked after in the past and am slightly perplexed at the way I am now being treated. The reason I am emailing you Rob is to understand how you would have handled the situation? How would you have recommended I handle the situation in hindsight?. "

 

Over to you good folks. Does he have a leg to stand on? 

I will chime in with my two cents at the end. 

[Corylax18]

Nope. If I asked for a charge back on every box that had two duds (flavor or construction) I'd have asked for charge back on roughly 75% of the Cuban boxes of purchased. Suck it up.

[madandana]

Ya, flavor is pretty subjective hard to blame the retailer

[Shrimpchips]

Pretty sure every online retailer of cigars has the disclaimer against the customer “experience”.   

For a customer with 20+ years relationship, maybe could have been offered credit by the retailer, but in these times I imagine that the new customer base/demand lets retailers cut relationships pretty quickly, unless they’re an absolute whale. 

[Ford2112]

Retailer has no control over such things. No way to prove storage conditions. I side with the Vender in this case.

[NSXCIGAR]

Frustrating, I get it, but once you start accepting returns for taste pandora's box opens up. I've never had an issue with that policy. No vendor could survive without it frankly. 

If I was the vendor I would have probably worked something out for a 22 year, 10 box per year customer as I would assume that person is estabished enough they would at least tell one or two other people not to ever use me. Not working something out for one box could easily cost me that same box's profit later on. But that's just me and I'm a bit more understanding. 

That said, one cannot fault the vendor for refusing to work with them and I also don't agree with the buyer's chargeback. The vendor sent the product purchased and chargebacks threaten their ability to conduct business. It's kind of a nuclear option that I don't use unless I'm getting straight up ripped off. 

[El Presidente]

Most pople are pretty reasonable. There is usually a work around. It is not that hard 

There are those however  who get their panties in a knot and go down the chargeback route very quickly. Even with us, it will happen once or twice a year and I have zero empathy for them regardless of how long they have been a client. Upon reflection, they are often remorseful and may even seek to make good on the chargeback. Unfortunately the  damage is done  and policy is a permanent banning across all related current and future businesses. The details of suspected/ actual fraudulent clients is often shared between retailers. Abusive clients same. You just don't want such people on your books. 

Again, there is usually a work around as long as all parties are understanding, respectful and realistic. 

 

 

[chris12381]

I've always been told chargebacks are for when dealing with retailers who won't make good on billing errors, unauthorized transactions, defective or missing goods, or otherwise fraudulent charges.  I suppose you could argue poor-tasting cigars are a "defective good" but as others have already pointed out, that's subjective and a risk we all take...when buying cigars! 

They didn't get the "f off" email for asking for credit on boxes that tasted like crap.  They got it when they filed a chargeback.  That was the equivalent of the customer calling the retailer a thief. 

[Guest Nekhyludov]

All the more reason to scrape off any remaining interest in CCs. In addition to pathetic production levels, declining quality, skyrocketing prices, and shipping issues, add to the list the fact that retailers no longer have any incentive whatsoever to give a rip about any customer - step out of line and you'll be shown the door. There's a long line waiting behind you.

[Arabian]

out of hundreds of boxes, only 3 came out bad?, that's pretty great ratio in CC. maybe aging the cigars would make it better?, trade it/ giveaway with someone who likes the taste of 'petrol'. I wouldn't damage my relationship with a longstanding retailer over a box.

 

[Tunkat92]

Sounds like a misuse of chargebacks, and sometimes you get bad tasting cigars that has been normal with CC's. I don't think that is the vendors responsibility. No leg to stand on, I see no obvious fraud, no reason for a full refund, and no negligence.

[yossie]

I know It's not a retailer's fault but A self called luxury brand, has to be responsible for their products quality.  I'd say that one actually doesn't seek to become so. It's just an excuse of greediness.

[shortsqueeze]

To me, both the customer and the retailer erred. If I was a 20+ year, good customer and was not made whole by the retailer in some equitable way, the relationship is over from my end. No fireworks, no begging, no chargebacks, just over. Whether or not the retailer cares is not the point. It’s not about the money. It’s the only principled thing to do. It’s sad when this sort of thing happens. If the reason the retailer treated this good customer in this way is because there are 10 buyers in line behind him and he no longer values long term relationships, okay, not the way I do business, but to each their own. 
 

I would add, my perspective is all based on the assumption that the customer doesn’t cry wolf, has always been reasonable, only raises an issue if it’s truly an issue - a truly good customer. 

[MickVanWinkle]

No leg to stand on - taste is a buyer beware sort of thing. The chargeback in itself (in my opinion) is an act of cutting ties. I can count on one finger the number of chargebacks I’ve done, and fully understood the message I was sending (note: it involved a telecom company that had double charged and kept fumbling attempts to resolve)

At the end of the day I try to keep myself honest and my ego in check when handling transactions. Never hit ‘send’ when drunk or angry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 19, 2023 by MickVanWinkle
Provide detail on chargeback

[gustavehenne]

I'm working my way through a box of Siglo VI at the moment. Whilst I've not finished the box:

1. Three have been utterly dreadful, somewhere in the 70 point range - frankly I'd rather have smoked horse manure
2. Four have been out of this world, outstanding and magical at 96 points easily
3. Six have been solid 93 pointers, beautiful smokes

Sometimes, you're going to get some bad sticks in a box. This is the magic that is Cuban cigars. As others have said, no retailer would have a viable business in the Cuban cigar world if they allowed taste to steer returns.

[HailState]

Price of playing poker imo

[Hotboxx]

You complained about a couple bad sticks? You have angered the cigar Gods. Google luck with that. 

[Hemclas]

In my opinion, the buyer cut ties when he initiated the charge back.  Who would go to that extreme and still want to do business with the vendor and what makes him think the vendor would ever want to do busy with him again.  The vendor would be putting themselves at risk of it happening again.  I don't get the buyers mentality.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, shortsqueeze said:

I would add, my perspective is all based on the assumption that the customer doesn’t cry wolf, has always been reasonable, only raises an issue if it’s truly an issue - a truly good customer. 

An assumption indeed. 

What struck me is the OP stating he had "3 issues" in the past. Were they also this same issue? Maybe the vendor worked something out 3 times before and had enough of his crap.

The chargeback is completely out of line. The vendor no doubt has this refund policy posted as almost all would. Their only obligation is to send you genuine cigars which presumably they did. There doesn't appear to be any bad faith by the vendor and therefore a chargeback is unwarranted. As I said I view the chargeback as an option only if I believe I have been categorically swindled or ripped off. I've only done one in my life and it was for an automated parking garage that overcharged me. 

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

 In addition to pathetic production levels, declining quality, skyrocketing prices, and shipping issues, 

...the retailer can control none of those 

 

4 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

add to the list the fact that retailers no longer have any incentive whatsoever to give a rip about any customer

....and yet most do. Incentive to do the right thing should always be something more than financial. 

 

4 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

step out of line and you'll be shown the door. There's a long line waiting behind you.

.....a quality retailer should always seek to procure a quality client list.  A quality list isn't about the money spend. The client list at its optimal should reflect the ethos of the retailer.  That generally requires an ongoing and small annual % client cull. You weed out the difficult and replace with the enjoyable. 

[Fuzz]

22yrs of smoking Cuban cigars, you taste 3 weird ones, and then jump straight to charge back? I would have blacklisted that customer too over such a subjective complaint of "it tastes weird".

I've sold thousands of tonnes of charcoal over the years. Every once in a while you get a dud batch that could come from a multitude of reasons, eg poor carbonisation, water got in during drying, packed during heavy monsoon rain, etc. And even if there was nothing wrong with the charcoal, sometimes it can be affected by how the customers stores it; eg picks up weird odours from being stored next to something smelly, left out and absorbed too much moisture, used chemical lighters to start the bbq, etc.

As a seller, nothing you can do to prevent those things. If a customer calls to complain, I will try to work with them to find out first what was the problem, and if there is something I can do, I will try to make it right. But if they jump straight to a chargeback, yeah, I'm gonna blacklist you.

[Elvis]

Never a charge back. If you indeed have a good relationship with your vendor they will try to work with you. That’s a lot easier if you’re buying from a B&M. If they won’t work with you then maybe it’s time to move on to a different vendor.

I once had a box of Epi 2’s that were so tannic they made my face pucker. I tried 2 and they were amazingly consistent, both horrible. I put the box to the back of the rotation and tried them five years later at which point they were starting to smooth out. As they were not physically damaged, the thought never came to mind to take it up with the vendor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anacostiakat]

Laughable.  Oh that cab of '08 Upmann Mag 50's that were just crap and never came around.  

[Wookie]

I’ve bought hundreds of boxes over the years from a few well known on-line vendors. The only problems I ever resolved were when the deliveries didn’t happen….and the retailers promptly made good on guaranteed delivery.  Never occurred to me to complain about tent stakes or bland flavors. 

[Puros Y Vino]

A few years ago, this would have been an easy "Suck it up" vote for me. I've had sticks and boxes that didn't start off great but improved over time.  These days, given pricing hikes, tobacco shortages and other related woes on the island, I'd bet that outside of Cohiba 55th's and other highly marked up sticks that QC in other marcas isn't up to snuff.  And there is also more evidence for fakes entering legit channels.  I feel for the retailers too, don't get me wrong.  At the end of the day, it is Habanos that needs to step up and make it easier for retailers and their customers to seek satisfaction when subpar product makes it out.  A retailer having to shut out a long time customer over a complaint or two does not make for a healthy relationship and market.  Right now, product is scarce and costly, so buyers feel that they should be lucky to get what they did and "suck it up".