One for the golfers: Department of Justice reportedly looking into dispute between PGA and LIV Golf

[El Presidente]

 

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-07-11/department-of-justice-pga-live-golf-antitrust#:~:text=Phil Mickelson will play for Saudi-funded golf league LIV&text=That four-year investigation resulted,appearing on televised golf programs.

 

PGA "V" LIV has been a fascinating watch to date.  I find it far more engaging than the game. 

 

Restiction of trade/anti-competitive or legitimate brand/corporate protection?

 

Would love your insight. 

[BrightonCorgi]

It does sound anti-trade to me.  Never a fan of non-compete's and the like. 

[JohnS]

Going by precedents in first-world countries (for example, the same arguments were made during Kerry Packer's World Series Cricket era here in Australia in the late 70s), I believe the LiV want their players to be able to compete in the big golf tournaments within the PGA tour outside the majors, as these are independent and the LiV players are playing in them at the moment.

The heart of the issue here really is that the Saudis want 'in' on the administration of professional golf and understandably the PGA wants nothing to do with them.

[Corylax18]

4 hours ago, JohnS said:

The heart of the issue here really is that the Saudis want 'in' on the administration of professional golf and understandably the PGA wants nothing to do with them.

No, that isnt the issue at all. The issue is the PGA see's a threat to their world wide monopoly on the sport and the billions in revenue that monopoly generates. The PGA said that, the article said the PGA said that. 

"It denied releases for the first LIV Golf event, which was held outside London the first week in June, because it viewed it as a series of tournaments that threatened the PGA Tour."

The PGA wants to maintain its monopoly so that they can continue maximizing their revenue. Its that simple. They aren't some altruistic group fighting the evils of the Saudi Regime, they exist to make as much money as possible. Which is just fine, but don't let them fool you.

This is just like the "super league" idea or whatever they wanted to call it for European soccer. The contracts between those business's ended up crushing that idea, but these are contracts between individuals and the PGA. The same thing is happening in the US with college football. A complete reshuffling of the sport because NIL revenue was finally allowed.  Streaming content has completely blown up the traditional revenue streams of major sports The new, much less regulated, ways to consume these sports (and the adds that fund them) are breaking the iron grip that these monopolies had for decades. The PGA is freaking out, the NCAA is freaking out; they've lost the control they became dependent on. 

[JohnS]

2 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

No, that isn't the issue at all. The issue is the PGA see's a threat to their world wide monopoly on the sport and the billions in revenue that monopoly generates.

It doesn't seem that way now, but the history of things suggests otherwise. In my opinion, the Saudis are not primarily interested in solely running the game of golf.

[El Presidente]

8 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

This is just like the "super league" idea or whatever they wanted to call it for European soccer. The contracts between those business's ended up crushing that idea, but these are contracts between individuals and the PGA. The same thing is happening in the US with college football. A complete reshuffling of the sport because NIL revenue was finally allowed.  Streaming content has completely blown up the traditional revenue streams of major sports The new, much less regulated, ways to consume these sports (and the adds that fund them) are breaking the iron grip that these monopolies had for decades. The PGA is freaking out, the NCAA is freaking out; they've lost the control they became dependent on. 

 

Nothing stays the same. Not all things float.......first time. 

Evolve or die. 

It is a fascinating time in global sport/business.....not that there is any difference between the two 

[LordAnubis]

i love it when a capitalist market cries because someone comes and pays more 😂

[El Presidente]

Just now, LordAnubis said:

i love it when a capitalismt market cries because someone comes and pays more 😂

[Cairo]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

It does sound anti-trade to me

It checks all the boxes of anti-trust monopoly behavior.

The issue is that the US DOJ has decades of history of refusing to enforce the clearly written ancient legislation outlawing monopolies and predatory market behavior of every imaginable sort.

This would be a plus if that got them in the habit of taking those old laws seriously.

[bmac]

Kyrgios is rumored to be in negotiations with LIV Tour.Perfect fit

[Yardley]

5 hours ago, JohnS said:

In my opinion, the Saudis are not primarily interested in solely running the game of golf.

I think this is missed a lot in the discussion. LIV doesn’t care for the game of golf. As noble as Greg Norman’s intentions may be, this tour isn’t about leveling the playing field for pro golfers vs. the PGA tour. LIV gives no f’s about making money, it’s all part of the PR machine. Buying a bunch of golfers and staging a dozen events every year is loads cheaper and easier than buying and getting into a sports league, US, Europe, or otherwise. So while the PGA Tour’s actions against LIV golfers do seem anticompetitive (though many of the players have received more money from LIV than they would be making for the rest of their careers, so not sure what’s up their asses) would have been nice for an actual golf league challenge the system, and not a bottomless pit of money trying to put some shine on a very tarnished image.

I do think there’s a “happy coincidence” that the knock on effect for PGA Tour players will be better purses and better terms (e.g. changing how/when the season starts). Will be interesting to see what happens in the next 5 years. Do top golfers out of college skip the prestige of the Tour for big pay checks right out the gate?

[El Presidente]

I am no longer a golfer so I have no real skin in the game.

Competition is a fundamental corner stone of traditional capitalism. You noted the needle has already moved to benefit PGA players. That needle wouldn't have moved without LIV.

Let them go hammer and tongs. The beneficiaries will be the players at the end of the day.

....unless I am missing something completely.

[BrightonCorgi]

Both LIV and PGA are basically entertainment to the consumers of their products.  Who'll put on a better a show?  Which tournament are viewers going to watch on Sunday? 

Discrediting the LIV because it's backed by the Kingdom is a bit too virtue signaling.

[Yardley]

49 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Discrediting the LIV because it's backed by the Kingdom is a bit too virtue signaling.

Agreed, I’m not trying to take the moral high ground here, I’m just saying this isn’t about golf. LIV has little interest in being a competitor to the PGA, but a ton of interest in getting high profile athletes to endorse them. Not a ton of individual sports with mass appeal outside golf and tennis, will be interesting if that’s the next move. 

And totally agree that the competition is good for the average tour pro, all types of silver linings for them. Won’t change how I enjoy or consume the game either. 

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, Yardley said:

...LIV has little interest in being a competitor to the PGA, but a ton of interest in getting high profile athletes to endorse them.

Even more reason why it is anti-trade.  The two are not "competing".

[porkchop]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Both LIV and PGA are basically entertainment to the consumers of their products.  Who'll put on a better a show?  Which tournament are viewers going to watch on Sunday? 

Discrediting the LIV because it's backed by the Kingdom is a bit too virtue signaling.

As you said it is entertainment. It is not a necessary component for life or growth. The desire to not watch the bone saw tour, because, well, the financial backers cut up a journalist critical of their brutal regime with a bone saw, not so sure that is "virtue signaling".

[Chibearsv]

6 hours ago, Yardley said:

Agreed, I’m not trying to take the moral high ground here, I’m just saying this isn’t about golf. LIV has little interest in being a competitor to the PGA, but a ton of interest in getting high profile athletes to endorse them. Not a ton of individual sports with mass appeal outside golf and tennis, will be interesting if that’s the next move. 

And totally agree that the competition is good for the average tour pro, all types of silver linings for them. Won’t change how I enjoy or consume the game either. 

I'm curious about the notion of investment in a sport = good PR.  Are sports fans so brain dead that they'll mentally ignore either the potentiality of, or obviously horrific actions of a government just because that government invests in a sport?  I don't get it.  I'm not calling you out since I've heard this same theory again and again.  Was there market research that suggested that atrocities may be ignored based on an investment in a sport?  Should Russia invest in some other globally followed sport for better PR?  Who falls for this crap?  Maybe this is just another one of those things that I'll just never understand...like crypto.

[bassistheplace]

as an avid golfer, I really don't care

If Phil and DJ and the rest want to make millions playing golf for LIV more power to them

I enjoy the drama of sports, especially championships. I really enjoy the 4 majors. LIV isn't any of those so I doubt I'll watch it

on the political aspect of this, there are no "good actors" when it comes to governments. And i say this as someone who is very proud to be an American

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, porkchop said:

As you said it is entertainment. It is not a necessary component for life or growth. The desire to not watch the bone saw tour, because, well, the financial backers cut up a journalist critical of their brutal regime with a bone saw, not so sure that is "virtue signaling".

That is the definition of virtue signaling.

Lots of countries have done awful things.   Name one that has never.

[porkchop]

50 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Lots of countries have done awful things.   Name one that has never.

This type of superficial response is precisely why Saudi Arabia is paying these guys ungodly sums on money. Sports washing. Normalizing their regime and its practices in the grossly oversimplified 140-character internet media landscape. 

Virtue signaling has a public component (and a negative connotation). Simply deciding against something privately is not virtue signaling.

 

[BrightonCorgi]

5 minutes ago, porkchop said:

Virtue signaling has a public component (and a negative connotation). Simply deciding against something privately is not virtue signaling.

You just announced to the forum why you chose not to watch LIV; nothing private about it. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

[bates40]

Remember the ABA?

[Cairo]

3 hours ago, porkchop said:

is not virtue signaling.

You don't know the rules.    You don't get to decide when you are virtue signaling.

We do.   

😀

[DaBoot]

Money talks. And the PGA is mad something is threatening their stranglehold on the sport. 
Politics aside, the players will benefit from this, as the PGA will have to do some major restructuring to get the new players to join them and not LIV, 

let’s compare jobs,,,, triple the pay for a third of the tournaments, no brainer.