EAR: Taking advantage?

[El Presidente]

EAR: Email Assistance Required. 

 

My thoughts are that once you sell or trade a box, you should not spend an iota of time thinking about it.  Still, maybe I am missing something.  Permission granted to post part of the PM to get a broader opinion.  

 

"what grinds my beans is that when I traded that box two years ago I didn't know what it was worth. My fault I know. However ****** did and he played me beautifully. He sold it at auction for 8 x what the trade value was and now wants to trade with me again on another box.  I am not going to do so because I believe his behaviour is unbecoming of a BOTL.  Am I wrong?"

[Chas.Alpha]

Reply: Yes, you are wrong. You felt you got a fair price when you traded it, why second guess? What did you get in return? Was it not as much value as the current market bears? I still say my (only) regret of 24/24 was drunkenly buying a box of PSP CoRo for what seemed a very high price. 3 years ago... I would trade them for something I enjoy more. 😀

[NSXCIGAR]

I think this has come up before. When dealing with BOTL, it is very poor form to "profit" so to speak. In the OP situation, at the very least, the auction profit should be split. No BOTL should be looking to come up on a trade. If one party is unaware of something's value the other party should not take advantage. 

This doesn't apply to non-BOTL transactions. 

[Corylax18]

Ok. You got hussled. Sounds like you learned a lesson? I wouldn't trade with that individual again either. However, it's his job, or anybody else's job to protect you. It's yours. 

[riderpride]

Depends on the items exchanging hands. Being a B/SOTL means sharing in a hobby as equals , not an opportunity to exploit. 

Cheers

[Islandboy]

I mean, I don’t think any of us truly know what a certain cigar is going to be worth 2 years from now. I would’ve never guessed the current situation 2 years ago.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 minutes ago, Islandboy said:

I mean, I don’t think any of us truly know that a certain cigar is going to be worth 2 years from now. I would’ve never guessed the current situation 2 years ago.

No, that's why the BOTL thing to do would be to split the profit. It's not exactly like 10 or 15 years passed and no one could have had any idea. If you get 8x the value after only 2 years there was a serious undervaluation at play. 

[HarveyBoulevard]

If it was a fair trade for you then, you got what you bargained for and so did he or she.  The fact that prices have skyrocketed or you low balled the value of what you had is not his fault.  No use crying over spilt milk and I don't think he pulled one over on you.

I understand you may not want to trade with the person again and that is your prerogative.  However, if he has something you want and you have something he wants, no reason you both can't win.  Just make sure you know what the values are before you trade.

 

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

No, that's why the BOTL thing to do would be to split the profit. It's not exactly like 10 or 15 years passed and no one could have had any idea. If you get 8x the value after only 2 years there was a serious undervaluation at play. 

I don't think that is the BOTL thing to do at all.  People need to be responsible for their own actions and not make foolish decisions then complain about it later.  If the shoe were on the other foot would this person be willing to split the profits with his trading partner...I'd bet not.

I'd hate try to keep track of trade equalities for two years just to not hurt someone's feelings.  I've traded dozens of times on FOH and no one is keeping track of these kinds of things.  What is the cut off?  2 years...4 years...8 years...

When do we just let adults be adults and live with the ramifications of their actions and decisions.

[targa88]

You make decisions based on the information that is available at the time. It’s done and dusted.

If new information comes to light then it will be a new decision.

Time wasted on mental “m@#$&*tion” is exactly that. You can’t change the outcome of the original decision.

 

[inter4alia]

1 minute ago, targa88 said:

You make decisions based on the information that is available at the time. It’s done and dusted.

If new information comes to light then it will be a new decision.

Time wasted on mental “m@#$&*tion” is exactly that. You can’t change the outcome of the original decision.

 

Ditto. 

[bmac]

That’s not a BOTL that’s a dick head

[Islandboy]

15 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

No, that's why the BOTL thing to do would be to split the profit. It's not exactly like 10 or 15 years passed and no one could have had any idea. If you get 8x the value after only 2 years there was a serious undervaluation at play. 

I have to respectfully disagree with this. How is trading cigars for cigars different from trading money for cigars? It’s an agreed upon exchange of property and the full ownership of such. 

Now if one of the parties in a trade truly took advantage of the other using deliberate misleading information on value, that’s definitely shameful behavior for a BOTL to engage in, IMO.

[MrBirdman]

The “you thought you got a fair deal at the time argument” is essentially the defense of con men. Anyone can think they got a fair deal only to find out later they got screwed. Fake Habanos sellers could say the same to their disgruntled clients. Obviously what’s done is done but let’s be real here: OP got hussled and yes it’s unbecoming behavior. 

[Kevin48438]

OP wrote that he “traded” it, rather than “sold” it.  I wonder what he traded it for.  A box of cigars he likes better?  Did he trade knowing that the receiver wasn’t going to smoke them?

If the understanding was that the receiver was going to smoke them, but sold them instead, I would be bothered.  I’d feel like I was tricked, which isn’t a good feeling.   Friends don’t deceive friends.   If it wasn’t a friend, then there isn’t much to do but avoid any future interactions with that person.  Or at least be on guard for any future deals.

[inter4alia]

I have no idea exactly what happened a couple of years ago and neither does anyone else except these two guys. More details or the other side of the story would be necessary before taking a hard stance on this issue.  However, with the ridiculous amount of information available on the internet these days I think it's difficult to say this guy got taken advantage of as opposed to maybe he just did not do his research before agreeing to a full box trade. But who knows, maybe the other guy is a dick and fraudulently induced our friend into this deal. We'll probably never know but let's have fun shooting the shit about it. 

[NSXCIGAR]

32 minutes ago, Islandboy said:

Now if one of the parties in a trade truly took advantage of the other using deliberate misleading information on value, that’s definitely shameful behavior for a BOTL to engage in, IMO.

I think that's the assumption, and a pretty reasonable one seeing as how 2 years brought 8x value. No cigar gains 8x value in 2 years naturally. They were clearly worth much more than what the trade value was at the time of the trade. A BOTL should not accept a trade that much below market. If it was unknowingly, he should share in the auction profit. 

[SCgarman]

It is water under the bridge. Learn from it and move on. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. BTW, prices of these cigars post COVID have gone through the roof, just like Geneva timepieces, Ferraris, Hermes handbags and all other luxury Veblen goods. Sometimes capitalism trumps any implied BOTL integrity rules. In my case, when I make a trade it is because I want the cigars to smoke. But as with anything YMMV.

[HarveyBoulevard]

18 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

A BOTL should not accept a trade that much below market.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.  IF a BOTL knew, they should not make the trade.  That is what makes them a BOTL and not just another guy off the street.

[Chas.Alpha]

A lot of assumptions  being made here. I state again clearly; I have a box of CoRo PSP that I bought on a rum bender. I would have much rather had a box of RASS and a couple boxes of Boli PC's for the same price. What you do with the CoRo is not my concern...

Seriously, I'd trade these for 2 10 ct. boxes of those ERdM Tainos RE. As Fearless Leader said, these will be LEGEND! 😀

Massive profit on these Cohibas. RIGHT NOW!!!

[Çnote]

It's sounds like someone was took on the 1st deal,so it's understandable some feelings are hard when condiering an 2nd. However, a 2nd deal gives the opportunity for a 'fair' clawback. It's also an opportunity for some fly fishing, if the 2nd deal is fair and he agrees to giving some of the slush, he's 100% speculating on your inventory and he ain't no BoTL.

[Chas.Alpha]

Time to start my review of the MoeFOH movie of the week: The Life of Brian. This should get me suspended for at least a week...😳

[Çnote]

7 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

A lot of assumptions  being made here. I state again clearly; I have a box of CoRo PSP that I bought on a rum bender. I would have much rather had a box of RASS and a couple boxes of Boli PC's for the same price. What you do with the CoRo is not my concern...

Seriously, I'd trade these for 2 10 ct. boxes of those ERdM Tainos RE. As Fearless Leader said, these will be LEGEND! 😀

Massive profit on these Cohibas. RIGHT NOW!!!

You know where the trading room is, right?

[Chas.Alpha]

1 hour ago, Çnote said:

You know where the trading room is, right?

Don't actually care. My point was if you're swapping cigars, don't whine about where they go. 

 

1 hour ago, Çnote said:

You know where the trading room is, right?

The only cigars that i have that will be swapped/traded or end up on BR are a 5 coffin box of 2018 Monte A's. I promised myself that I would not touch them until the Minnesota Vikings win the superbowl! or until after my funeral, whichever comes first...

BR 2047: For sale, 1 box of... 😔

[SCgarman]

21 minutes ago, Chas.Alpha said:

The only cigars that i have that will be swapped/traded or end up on BR are a 5 coffin box of 2018 Monte A's. I promised myself that I would not touch them until the Minnesota Vikings win the superbowl! or until after my funeral, whichever comes first...

BR 2047: For sale, 1 box of... 😔

Uh, I would venture to say your demise will likely arrive before a Vikings SB win ever will. Just have to face reality and not fool oneself.

[TobaccoRoad]

I see the BOTL acronym used a lot. It's warm and fuzzy to think that everyone on this forum is honorable, upright and participating in this hobby with purely altruistic motives. It's also extremely naive. In any community, especially anonymous online forums, there lurks the best and the worst of human nature. There are some fine people here at FOH. I've been lucky enough to trade with a few. I'm sure there are less upright and reputable folks here too. I haven't had the misfortune to trade or transact any business with them. If I do in the future then the old adage applies: Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. 

Move on with lesson learned.