Are long skinnies dead?

[Frinkiac7]

I know there any many that are not officially discontinued, but they sure are hard to find (current supply problems notwithstanding).

LGC MdO 4, PL MC, Monte Especiales, etc. Cohiba Lanceros and CE I have seen blip up on the radar recently to be snapped up in a matter of nanoseconds. Trini Fundadores--do they even still exist? Officially, yes (at least I think). Even lonsdales (a bit chunkier than a true skinny, if you ask me) are gone except for the Monte #1, I believe?

With the trend toward ever shorter, ever fatter cigars, will these ever see their day or will they slowly be pared back until they are all dead and discontinued? Is there even a market for them? You'd think HSA would follow the money and axe the underselling vitolas/marcas, so maybe that is part of it. But maybe I go too far trying to assume they are going about it in a logical way.

[TheCigarslayer]

Judging by my local cigar smoking spots I haven't seen much anything remotely looking like a skinny smoked in years. I'm sure if you are going by volume, they are going the way of the dodo 

[rcarlson]

They're done.  

[NSXCIGAR]

Toast.

I doubt we'll ever see a new regular production cigar under 44 RG ever again. 

Fortunately, it seems HSA is willing to consistently give us some ER Laguitos and Lonsdales every year. I think that's as good as it's ever going to get. 

 

[Lfhard]

It is sad to hear I love some skinnies. Not saying I hate large ring gauges I don’t discriminate. Just prefer skinnies and lonsdales. Hopefully they don’t go away for good. 

[Ites]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Toast.

I doubt we'll ever see a new regular production cigar under 44 RG ever again. 

Fortunately, it seems HSA is willing to consistently give us some ER Laguitos and Lonsdales every year. I think that's as good as it's ever going to get. 

 

You're probably right about that. Aren't skinny cigars some of the most difficult to roll? Given the recent issues with finding and holding on to skilled rollers it isn't very likely we'll see new regular production skinnies. 

Wrapper leaf is also the most difficult to produce, and there's more wrapper:filler in a smaller gauge. And the majority of the market appear to be enjoying larger gauges. 

[Huckleberry]

In the cuban cigar world probably. 

What is unique/interesting, is the new world cigars were what started this fat turd phenomenon.  Yet now, there is a definite resurgence in the way of the lancero among new world producers.  I don't mean to say they are everywhere, but they are very easily found if looking for them.  Why Cuba doesn't follow suit is not something I understand.  I am apt to believe it is due to the lack of larger wrapper leaf or possibly the exit of the skilled rollers needed to produce them.  From what I see from this forum at least, I don't believe for a minute its becuase they wouldn't sell a ton of them.

I don't mind the shorter/smaller cigars because what is coming out of cuba in this range has been simply amazing.  I don't know what a long skinny cuban tastes like because I have never had one and don't know what I am missing.  One day I will score a box of the PLMCs when I am fast enough.  In the meantime I will enjoy the hell out of what I do have.

[NSXCIGAR]

35 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

From what I see from this forum at least, I don't believe for a minute its becuase they wouldn't sell a ton of them.

This forum isn't representative of the CC buying world in general. For example, PLMC does well here but I guarantee isn't a big mover worldwide. It's nothing short of a miracle it's still in production. 

Dalias on down were really becoming difficult to move in the mid-2000s. Cigars like Boli Lonsdales, SLR Lonsdales, SP Molinos, ERDM Grandes de Espana, and QdO Panetelas and MdO 1 & 3 were gathering dust at retailers. Churchills and Coronas weren't doing well either. BCG, ERDM Tainos and QdO Imperiales were utter sales dogs. 

The 43s that remain have a loyal following and the Party 898 sells at a pretty good price. The one I wasn't sure about is the LGC MdO 2. @El Presidente, how did MdO 2 move back in the day? I know they had sporadic production like the MdO4 does today. Did they move fast? 

[El Presidente]

I think Lancero's are a bellweather to many a manufacturer. If you do a Lancero well, you know a little bit about cigars. There is some pride there. 

However. 

• A Lancero costs the same to manfacture  as a Double Robusto. 
• In the US you pay the same 41 cent import tax per stick (at the wholesale import level). 
• They are harder to roll. 
• You can't charge as much. 
• Blending can be a challenge. 
• Your market is vastly reduced. 

Celebrate the ones that exist! 

[KCCubano]

1 hour ago, therealrsr said:

More Nudies Pretty Please!🙏

I dont care for nc too much. I do however like the Maduro Carlota's I received 2 weeks ago. Wishing now I would have stocked up on N1's. 

[Fugu]

21 hours ago, Frinkiac7 said:

will these ever see their day or will they slowly be pared back until they are all dead and discontinued?

Funny somehow to see how you‘re putting this in future tense. The bitter truth is the glass is 99 percent empty already.  😕

[gustavehenne]

I thought about this the other day. I love a skinny (Cohiba Lanceros, CCE, Montecristo Especial in Cuba and plenty of NC examples from My Father, Ashton, Padron etc.) but my most favourite cigars are much chunkier (Siglo VI, Bolivar Libertador, Padron 1926 No. 1).

One thing I love about cigars is the variety and different experience from similar marcas but with different profiles. I would love for HSA to have more diversity in their portfolio although as Rob very eloquently put it above, it doesn't seem viable. I came late to the cigar game and therefore missed the Coronas Gigantes from Bolivar, the Medaille d'Or series etc. and I do miss these.

I want more options, not less. However, that is unlikely to be a good business case for HSA to reintroduce some lines that clearly gather a lot of dust out with the connoisseur circles.

[SCgarman]

12 minutes ago, stevenhaugen said:

I thought about this the other day. I love a skinny (Cohiba Lanceros, CCE, Montecristo Especial in Cuba and plenty of NC examples from My Father, Ashton, Padron etc.) but my most favourite cigars are much chunkier (Siglo VI, Bolivar Libertador, Padron 1926 No. 1).

One thing I love about cigars is the variety and different experience from similar marcas but with different profiles. I would love for HSA to have more diversity in their portfolio although as Rob very eloquently put it above, it doesn't seem viable. I came late to the cigar game and therefore missed the Coronas Gigantes from Bolivar, the Medaille d'Or series etc. and I do miss these.

I want more options, not less. However, that is unlikely to be a good business case for HSA to reintroduce some lines that clearly gather a lot of dust out with the connoisseur circles.

Unfortunately as Rob stated with the current situation Habanos is not even close to producing anywhere near their entire catalog of cigars. This makes it difficult for any newcomers to the hobby to have a chance at purchasing what is left of the long, skinny vitolas in production.

[bishop532]

12 minutes ago, stevenhaugen said:

I thought about this the other day. I love a skinny (Cohiba Lanceros, CCE, Montecristo Especial in Cuba and plenty of NC examples from My Father, Ashton, Padron etc.) but my most favourite cigars are much chunkier (Siglo VI, Bolivar Libertador, Padron 1926 No. 1).

One thing I love about cigars is the variety and different experience from similar marcas but with different profiles. I would love for HSA to have more diversity in their portfolio although as Rob very eloquently put it above, it doesn't seem viable. I came late to the cigar game and therefore missed the Coronas Gigantes from Bolivar, the Medaille d'Or series etc. and I do miss these.

I want more options, not less. However, that is unlikely to be a good business case for HSA to reintroduce some lines that clearly gather a lot of dust out with the connoisseur circles.

I’m like you - I want as many options as possible. But I disagree that it’s a poor business case to keep rolling skinnies to provide more options. I think Habanos looks at it like everyone today - it’s gotta sell fast, or it’s crap. I think its The same thinking that  leads all these kids to go a million dollars in debt to become entrepreneurs with no equity. they think if you own a restaurant while someone else owns Facebook, you’re a failure. Similarly, if the LGC MdO line only sells 5% of what the Partagas serie d no 4 sells, then it’s a failure.

But, the thing is, not everyone likes robustos, petit robustos, or montescos. Even of those who do, most of them want other options too. By saying “we are only going to sell the highest performers”, they are limiting their customer base to those who smoke the highest performers. And honestly, a fair percentage of your daily smokers either prefer skinnies or want them regularly. Somebody who wants a variety of lanceros or - God forbid - long panetelas has to buy NC because Habanos no longer sells enough to cover anywhere near what the demand is.

Personally, I know I spend a lot more money on NCs than I would if there were more skinnies available. I guess it’s an argument in favor of capitalism, because I’m pretty sure some enterprising Businessman would happily fill this mismatch between supply and demand if they were allowed to do so. 

 

[The Hunter]

14 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I think Lancero's are a bellweather to many a manufacturer. If you do a Lancero well, you know a little bit about cigars. There is some pride there. 

However. 

• A Lancero costs the same to manfacture  as a Double Robusto. 
• In the US you pay the same 41 cent import tax per stick (at the wholesale import level). 
• They are harder to roll. 
• You can't charge as much. 
• Blending can be a challenge. 
• Your market is vastly reduced. 

Celebrate the ones that exist! 

Well I would love a box on the 2424 to celebrate  *wink *wink 

[Huckleberry]

14 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I think Lancero's are a bellweather to many a manufacturer. If you do a Lancero well, you know a little bit about cigars. There is some pride there. 

 

When I was a professional drinker I used to say the same thing about breweries that could make high quality and enjoyable brown ales.  Anybody can throw spices and hops in the air and come up with juicies, ipas, sours and whatever else people are drinking these days.  You can't do the same thing with a brown ale, you have to have skills and pay attention or its going to be undrinkable trash.

bellweather is now my word of the week

[El Presidente]

I will always make skinnies because I love them. 

Hopefully one day I will have a JV with Foxy, Jose, Hamlet, and run our own CC and NC operation. You can dream!

Making cigars you love first and worrying about the bottomline second. 

I understand the pricing dymanics which leads to skinnies not being made.    Leaf is short (CC and NC), costs rising. You have to love skinnies to back them over another format. HSA, "where are the new skinnies?" There is no love there. 

Make one factory a dedicated skinny factory. Make it your smallest factory and give it an identity with a manager who loves them and a team who buys into the concept/history. 

Now you are on a winner 

 

[Frinkiac7]

In honor of this thread's sentiment I found a lonely box of Monte Especial No. 2 and snapped it up.

I can't remember the last time I saw PL MC for sale anywhere but the PCs seem like they are reappearing somewhere, so a guy can dream.

I've pretty much given up on LGC at this point. I have a box of the last MDO No. 4 I bought that I can't bring myself to start smoking. I know that the second I do, they will be officially discontinued.

[bishop532]

5 minutes ago, Frinkiac7 said:

I can't remember the last time I saw PL MC for sale anywhere but the PCs seem like they are reappearing somewhere, so a guy can dream.

I've pretty much given up on LGC at this point. I have a box of the last MDO No. 4 I bought that I can't bring myself to start smoking. I know that the second I do, they will be officially discontinued.

Your comment about the LGCs breaks my heart, because that’s what I see happening too. Only difference is, I sadly don’t have a box of them. 

Besides on 2424, I see PLMC singles occasionally here and there, and I saw a few boxes on a couple different sites in Jan and Feb. Those at least are still getting made! 

[Corylax18]

Its weird. I saw almost a hundred boxes of PLMC's when I was in Havana earlier this month. There always seem to be plenty down there as well. I wonder why they don't export more of them. 

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Its weird. I saw almost a hundred boxes of PLMC's when I was in Havana earlier this month. There always seem to be plenty down there as well. I wonder why they don't export more of them. 

When I was there in Nov 17 there were stacks and stacks of MdO4. I was thinking they'd never disappear. Well, by 19 they were all gone. Apart from a lonely batch of mid-20s I saw pop up last year they've been MIA for a solid 3 years.

I'll be there next week so I'll post a stock report. I plan on hitting every shop. 

3 hours ago, Frinkiac7 said:

I've pretty much given up on LGC at this point. I have a box of the last MDO No. 4

They'll be back. It's the only model left in the brand so they likely won't kill it. My hypothesis is that there has been a wave of LGC ERs in the last 2-3 years eating up the leaf. I would expect LGC will take a breather on ERs this year and next and we might get some MdO4. 

898, Sir Winston and Fundys have been MIA for a long time as well. They'll be back. The only one that seems eternally elusive is Siglo V. I've seen maybe two boxes of 25 in the last 5 years. They clearly have little interest in making that cigar. 

[jakebarnes]

8 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

When I was there in Nov 17 there were stacks and stacks of MdO4. I was thinking they'd never disappear. Well, by 19 they were all gone. Apart from a lonely batch of mid-20s I saw pop up last year they've been MIA for a solid 3 years.

I'll be there next week so I'll post a stock report. I plan on hitting every shop. 

They'll be back. It's the only model left in the brand so they likely won't kill it. My hypothesis is that there has been a wave of LGC ERs in the last 2-3 years eating up the leaf. I would expect LGC will take a breather on ERs this year and next and we might get some MdO4. 

898, Sir Winston and Fundys have been MIA for a long time as well. They'll be back. The only one that seems eternally elusive is Siglo V. I've seen maybe two boxes of 25 in the last 5 years. They clearly have little interest in making that cigar. 

Sure hope so on the 898 front. I think that is my favorite vitola. Loved the PC for shorter smokes and 898 for weekends rotation I had for a while. Party 898 really was (is?) a special cigar.