Long Term Aging Opinion

[moryc]

20 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

Much less than you think. 

This is a cryptic comment, but I'd wager many of those who are purchasing today at ridiculous prices won't be around. Kids aren't smoking. 

I highly suspect that a 20 year old box of Espies will be worth more in 2022 than a 20 year old box of Espies in 2042. 

Cigars are only going to keep their value for the next 15 or so years, then we'll see a sharp decline. (unless there is a big swing in public opinion around tobacco). 

Never know.  Although the tobacco use, particularly cigarettes, is on decline, I'm seeing younger people starting to get into cigars.  I have a few cousins in their late 20s that are getting into the hobby.  I had to give a crash course the other day.

[BEVOSREVENGE]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:30 AM, moryc said:

I searched through the forums quite a bit and found numerous discussions regarding this topic.  Everyone has their opinion and what they like with x amount of years of aging.  I'm looking to put down 4 boxes of current, regular production cigars and what is generally available for 19 years +.  Why 19 years?  My son was born in November of 2021 and I would like to put down boxes from his birth month (if I can source them) that hopefully we can smoke together when he becomes of legal smoking age (maybe a little earlier than that).  

Which cigars, in your opinion, have enough fuel to age for this long. Based on what I have been reading, my short list so far is:

BBF

Magnum 46

Juan Lopez Seleccion No. 2 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Yes on the Mag 46.

[gustavehenne]

I'm not as experienced as others with ageing sticks although I've had a few passed on to me (very generously) that were utterly sublime. I'd personally stick away:

1. Trinidad Fundadores
2. Montecristo Especial
3. Cohiba Siglo V (or more realistically for NOV21, Siglo III)
4. Bolivar Libertador

What a nice gesture and I hope your son will enjoy

[Dimmers]

On 3/20/2022 at 5:17 AM, Bijan said:

The most important thing will be good and stable storage conditions.

Definitely this if long term aging.  MRN has said he stores at 12c (like wine) and 55-60% rh for serious long term storage.

[kyee]

I have been vacuum sealing for a long time, maybe 15 years or so.  My process follows closely what Monterey described - vacuum all the air out, right up till the box will would start to compress if I don't hit the seal button.  No Boveda packs needed in the sealed package.  I've tested some boxes after 5-10 years being sealed, and that funky smell that hits your nose is just pugent-ly intoxicating.   hard to describe it.  the hard part is that the large 50 count cabs, and wide format boxes won't fit in the normal sized bags.  I've had to order the special bags that allow it to expand, which works fine.  They cost more than the normal bags.

[joeypots]

Any thoughts about a good vacuum sealer that would be used mostly for sealing boxes of cigars?

 

[BrightonCorgi]

8 hours ago, joeypots said:

Any thoughts about a good vacuum sealer that would be used mostly for sealing boxes of cigars?

Weston is the go to brand for vacuum sealers.

[Monterey]

20 hours ago, joeypots said:

Any thoughts about a good vacuum sealer that would be used mostly for sealing boxes of cigars?

 

Luckily you can go cheap here. While you want a firm seal, you don't want to crush the box. Therefore it needs less force then your standard food seal. I use the one from Costco. Like 100 bucks when it goes on sale. Due to the shear volume I have, I use after market bags. I've had no issue with those. I have some 50 DC cabs that I had to get the extra large "turkey" bags that only foodsaver sells though.

[Reuben]

Such an interesting read.

[BrightonCorgi]

Not all vacuum sealers are wide enough to handle a double cab. My vacuum sealer can handle 18" wide bags. 

A friend compressed his R&J Churchill's so much they looked like extreme Padrons. Unsmokable and into the fire pit. 😞 I double or triple up on the boxes per bag if possible.

The first box I vacuum sealed was a Noella jar. It took off from there once I felt confident on the method.

[MrBirdman]

Yeah oversealing is an easy mistake to make and a trap I fell into with my first few experiments. Unfortunately, now I'm so paranoid that I've over sealed I frequently redo the seals until they are perfect (loose but not full of air - I stack my vac'd boxes and too much air is a pain, plus it can be very hard to tell if the seal has failed.) A lot of boxes barely fit in the bags which gives them a tight appearance even when they aren't sealed too hard. Occasionally I'll look over a sealed box from two years ago and think, "Is this just bit too tight", reopen the damn thing to find they’re perfect and go through the process all over again. 

I've come to rely on being able to move the box within the bag, even if only very slightly. Typically that means you're ok. But if you suspect oversealing (bowing box top is a big sign), redo it immediately. I have a box of Maltes that was oversealed about a day and a few of the sticks have flat tops. 

I'll admit I have fully and super tightly sealed some cigars, but they are singles in oversized boxes so there is not a risk of compression. They are all older Cohiba I'm looking to eek out as much life as possible from. But it's quite possible the extra sealing has no effect. 

[Monterey]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:18 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

I double or triple up on the boxes per bag if possible.

Not a recommendation I would make, but to each their own. Only makes sense if you plan on opening and wanting all 3 boxes at the same time some date into the future. Else you have to take out a box, reseal it. And old bag like that would have to be tossed and you would need a new one. You aren't saving any money here. Just a recommendation for others to do one box per bag unless you plan on opening a 2-3 box bag and enjoy at the same time sometime in March of 2035

[Monterey]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:13 PM, MrBirdman said:

 Occasionally I'll look over a sealed box from two years ago and think, "Is this just bit too tight", reopen the damn thing to find their perfect and go through the process all over again.

Ha ha, been there! At first I couldn't sleep the night I did it. "It is too tight!" Got out of bed, opened up, cigars were just fine, felt dumb, redid it, back to bed.

I go for tight fit, I don't like any lose air. There is about a fraction of a second between perfect and crushing. You can actually crush the box a little. The box will help. But yeah, I've seen horror stories of people just letting it go until the machine thinks it is done and seals. But yeah, I don't like some air as it can be harder to tell if a seal broke. If you have a box or 20 you can. But when you have a ton, you are happy with a tight seal as you can just run your finger over the boxes and tell in an instant.

[siwujun]

I think the lifespan of BBF is about 20 years. After 20 years, the flavor starts to wane. If it reaches its peak in 20 years, I recommend Montecristo No. 2 and H. Upmann No. 2.

[siwujun]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:13 PM, MrBirdman said:

是的，过度密封是一个很容易犯的错误，也是我在前几次实验中陷入的陷阱。不幸的是，现在我太偏执了，以至于我已经过度密封了，我经常重做密封，直到它们完美为止（松动但没有充满空气 - 我堆放我的真空盒子，太多的空气是一种痛苦，而且它可以很难判断密封是否失效。）很多盒子几乎无法放入袋子中，即使密封不太严实，它们也会显得很紧。有时候，我会看着两年前的密封盒子，心想，“是不是有点太紧了”，然后重新打开这个该死的东西，发现它们是完美的，然后重新完成整个过程。 

我已经开始依赖于能够移动袋子里的盒子，即使只是非常轻微的移动。通常这意味着你没事。但如果您怀疑过度密封（盒子顶部弯曲是一个大标志），请立即重做。我有一盒麦芽威士忌，密封了大约一天，其中一些木棒的顶部是平的。 

我承认我已经 完全 且超紧密地密封了一些雪茄，但它们是单支雪茄，装在超大的盒子里，因此不存在压缩的风险。它们都是较老的高希霸，我希望从中获得尽可能多的生命力。但额外的密封很可能没有效果。 

It would be good to use food wrap, which has slight air permeability.

[TheGipper]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:30 PM, siwujun said:

It would be good to use food wrap, which has slight air permeability.

What? Why? That would completely defeat the purpose of vacuum sealing.

[siwujun]

9 hours ago, TheGipper said:

什么？为什么？这将完全违背真空密封的目的。

PE cling film has moderate oxygen permeability and moisture permeability, which can regulate the oxygen and moisture content around the preserved products, block dust and pests, and prevent frequent gas exchange from causing damage to the cigar itself. This can indeed promote the reproduction of some anaerobic bacteria (in fact, the principle of cigar fermentation is different from that of microbial fermentation, which only refers to the environment within the membrane). What is certain is that the plastic wrap is "breathable" and the moisture in the air can penetrate into the inside and outside of the plastic wrap through the plastic wrap, but this process is very slow. In addition, I remember reading the information. Scientists have shown through experiments that if the plastic wrap is thicker, microorganisms or fungi will multiply faster. Once an anaerobic reaction occurs, fermentation will be easy. (Anaerobic environments cannot directly promote fermentation, but it’s good for eliminating clutter.) This is why some foods cannot be covered with plastic wrap, but this feature can be used to preserve cigars.

[TheGipper]

Great, I've graduated from arguing about vacuum sealing with people who have never tried it. Now I am arguing about vacuum sealing with AI bots.

[SUP8333]

I opened a 5 year old vac seal recently and tested its internal humidity - it was at 35%, after 2 weeks of rest it climbed to 59%. I'm letting it sit awhile longer hoping it goes up a little more.