Embargo turns 60.

[El Presidente]

Good article.  Depressing as hell.  JFK's embargo turns 60. 

You have to wonder who are the winners in such a sham. There must be winners to see it last this long. Follow the money. 

1. Castro/Cuban Govt for one. Their power cemented through blame unification. 
2. Politicians stoking votes. 
3. Suppliers who receive market protection from the embargo in their dealings with Cuba. 

The Cuban people certainly are not on the list. 

Good read from the link. 

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba/2022-02-02/cuba-embargoed-us-trade-sanctions-turn-sixty

 

Not much has changed. THe memo is depressing reading. 

 

This 1960 memo, written by Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Lestor Mallory, provided the initial rationale for punitive trade sanctions against Cuba

 

 

[Chas.Alpha]

“... to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation, and overthrow of government.”

3 out of 4 ain’t bad. 😔

[eLJardins]

that memo is a bummer for sure. I wonder how long they thought it was going to last...

[SMELTZ]

This was more about Russia then Cuba and the way things are at present, the US could be entering another cold war with Russia.  The US will never change the embargo while Cuba has a Communist government, Plain and Simple. 

[Chas.Alpha]

The US will never change the embargo as long as exiled Cubans in Miami are a play in Florida elections. Plain and simple...

[RichG]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Depressing as hell.

I don’t know how one could read this and think otherwise. Over 60 years…and what has been gained.

2 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

The US will never change the embargo as long as exiled Cubans in Miami are a play in Florida elections. Plain and simple...

I always see Miami/Florida politics cited whenever this issue comes up, and I always wonder…do the majority of Cuban Americans support the embargo? Do Cuban Americans feel something is gained from opposing the Castro regime (et al) that is worth more than the price the embargo levies on the average Cuban? 

[bmac]

I think we all do business with The Cuban govt to help the people of Cuba.🧐

[Fox Sterlingworth]

The embargo was purely punishment for allowing the Russians to play in our backyard.  
 

At the time it was put in place, it was absolutely detrimental to their economy.  Now?  Not so much.  It’s more like just a inconvenience that if lifted could really be a windfall for both sides economically and relationship wise.

[BrightonCorgi]

The Embargo for sure helps the regime that is in power in Cuba. 

 

18 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

The US will never change the embargo as long as exiled Cubans in Miami are a play in Florida elections. Plain and simple...

Our current president has no shot at winning Florida in his re-election campaign.  I think the biggest surprise of his candidacy is not lifting the Embargo.  He wants his presidency to be a transformative administration; lifting the Embargo should've been a day one signing.  I think it could still happen.  Issue like the Embargo is sure to switch the focus in the news.

[Cairo]

22 hours ago, El Presidente said:

There must be winners to see it last this long.

I agree--to a point.    There is also just old fashioned momentum.

It takes more power/clout to create a change than to just hold the status quo.

In practical terms that would mean there would need to be a concerted lobbying effort to change the policy.

US cigar smokers who order Cubans online benefit from the embargo--legal Cubans would probably be taxed insane amounts.

 

 

[cigaraholic]

6 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Our current president has no shot at winning Florida in his re-election campaign.  I think the biggest surprise of his candidacy is not lifting the Embargo.  He wants his presidency to be a transformative administration; lifting the Embargo should've been a day one signing.  I think it could still happen.  Issue like the Embargo is sure to switch the focus in the news.

He can’t lift the embargo....Congress must do it.

[SCgarman]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The Embargo for sure helps the regime that is in power in Cuba. 

 

Our current president has no shot at winning Florida in his re-election campaign.  I think the biggest surprise of his candidacy is not lifting the Embargo.  He wants his presidency to be a transformative administration; lifting the Embargo should've been a day one signing.  I think it could still happen.  Issue like the Embargo is sure to switch the focus in the news.

He has no shot at winning any state. Delaware... maybe

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, cigaraholic said:

He can’t lift the embargo....Congress must do it.

The president sets the agenda for what he wants to Congress to do, no?

Much of what has been done with Covid restrictions has been executive action with profound effect.  Congress was not involved.  President can do similar towards Cuba without there being legislation.

[El Presidente]

Some posts sailing close to the wind folks.

Cuba US policy focus fine. Always has been.

Red and Blue handbags at 10 paces = mucho long holiday. 

[Chas.Alpha]

If I led us astray, it was not intentional. When the restrictions were eased it was an opportunity that I had dreamed about for a few decades. The US travel restrictions were reestablished during an election year, to curry favor with the 1 million Cuban exiles living in the Miami area, most of whom are in support of sanctions. The only benefit I can see from having hostile relations with Cuba is to appease those voters. The Cuban people certainly do not benefit from them, nor is the Cuban government made less weak because of them.

[Fuzz]

17 hours ago, cigaraholic said:

He can’t lift the embargo....Congress must do it.

Yes he can. The Helms-Burton Act does not remove the President's Constitutional powers over foreign policy. And when Clinton signed the bill into law, he specifically stated the President's power in foreign affairs.

"Consistent with the Constitution, I interpret the Act as not derogating from the president’s authority to conduct foreign policy. A number of provisions could be read to state the foreign policy of the United States […] While I support the underlying intent of these sections, the president’s constitutional authority over foreign policy necessarily entails discretion over these matters. Accordingly, I will construe these provisions to be precatory. The president must also be able to respond effectively to rapid changes in Cuba. This capability is necessary to ensure that we can advance our national interests in a manner that is conducive to a democratic transition in Cuba. Section 102(h), concerning the codification of the economic embargo, and the requirements for determining that a transitional or democratically elected government is in power, could be read to impose overly rigid constraints on the implementation of our foreign policy."

The President could say to hell with Congress and end the embargo, or just let it lapse instead of renewing it every year. Congress could challenge the President and vote to block, but legislative vetoes are unconstitutional, as confirmed by the Supreme Court.

[ayedfy]

The UN does one of these votes regularly and the votes are more or less always the same. 

If I'm honest, it feels like pretty useless posturing by overpaid bureaucrats that hasn't and won't achieve anything (hey, it's the UN). But it's at least nice to have a concrete reference for how little support there is for this embargo in the international community, including among almost all of America's allies.

The voting power of the Miami Cubans really is the only way to make sense of it now. It's had no positive regime change effect (as mentioned only drums up greater support for the PCC), it's not good for business, it wastes government resources. Cuba has some vague friendliness with China and Russia, but you could say that about a hundred other countries in the Global South that aren't under sanctions. Can't help but feel that if Florida wasn't such an important voting state the thing would have been dead and buried decades ago.

[ElJavi76]

I would kindly remind some folks that a good majority of those pesky Exiled Cuban voters in Florida, actually have REAL family in Cuba. Not pretend family, or an adopted family, or really really good friends. To some, the stance of Cuban exiles might seem ornery, stupid, and outdated. That’s fine by me. Being in America affords me the opportunity to have my own opinion and not care too much about its popularity. 
 

When I think of my cousin who left Cuba on a raft and spent 4 days adrift in the open sea… some more reasonable person might ask, why risk it? Why not just stick it out like a few other million Cubans do everyday. When people are willing to die to get off of a rock, that should put things into perspective for the rest of us. The greater point being, the enemy of the Cuban people is their government not ours. If Cuba was interested in ending the embargo they have a list of to-dos that would end it without an American politician lifting a pen. So we’re willing to give the communists a pass so that their pride won’t get an ouchie. You might think of the exiled Cuban stance as capricious, and I celebrate your ability to opine. However, it bothers me that folks assign some blind emotion to this whole thing. Like Cubans in Florida mindlessly vote and those votes are the only thing propping up the embargo still. 
 

Is there plenty of emotion to go around? Yes. Are Cuban voters really just simple-minded individuals, with little intelligence, who can be distracted with a single voting issue? Yikes! I dunno, are we?

The politicians who can lift the embargo don’t. Other politicians, allegedly slap on more sanctions to gain votes. The real problem here is crystal clear, it’s those exiled Cuban voters. Sigh!

[Dougthesnail]

Something will happen eventually, especially with the world becoming more and more connected. Cubans will eventually demand freedom or they'll have a leader far removed from Communism.

[RichG]

@ElJavi76 I agree with you that the concept that the Cuban Florida vote "propping up the embargo" sounds like a drastic oversimplifcation. It has always struck me as odd that this explanation has been a rationale offered up by Americans to explain the longevity of the embargo.

Definitely no condescension intended towards Cuban Americans. If Cuban exiles support the embargo because it represents opposition to a regime that has oppressed them and their families, no one in their right mind could argue that this is not a just and well warranted perspective. 

My feeling (right or wrong) has always been that if the embargo did not exist, Cuba would have been able to evolve into a more balanced, capitalist society by virtue of greater integration with the rest of the world, which a non-embargo state of being would afford them.

From your perspective do you think the majority of Cuban Americans at this point in time generally support the embargo, or do you think there are more divides along factors such as age? Asking this, I realize it is very hard to generalize about a group as large and diverse as "Cuban Americans". 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, Dougthesnail said:

Something will happen eventually, especially with the world becoming more and more connected. Cubans will eventually demand freedom or they'll have a leader far removed from Communism.

It's not so easy in Latin America as whichever form of government emerges, it will be authoritarian and corrupt.  Most of Latin America has preferred Socialist regimes the last 60 years.

[El Presidente]

This quote sums up the embargos attitude to the Cuban people perfectly. 

“I sit on a man’s back choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am sorry for him and wish to lighten his load by all means possible….except by getting off his back.”

1886  Tolstoy

[Cairo]

In the US both parties have a simple rule for public policy--if/when it fails, double down!

[RichG]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

“I sit on a man’s back choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am sorry for him and wish to lighten his load by all means possible….except by getting off his back.”

Wait a second…I thought this quote was Tolstoy on marriage?

[ElJavi76]

The revolts and protests in the streets last July 11th weren’t against the US or its embargo. So this notion that all Cubans on the island blame the US for the embargo and their lack off everything is probably another spinning an opinion. Has anyone polled Cuban citizens to see if the majority hate the embargo/blame the US? Doubt it!

 Last July the protests were against the Cuban government and their oppression. The Cubans have heard enough bs and blaming of the imperialists. I’ll repeat, the Cuban government can end the embargo in 5 minutes. They refuse! For the Revolution and their pride, but it’s the USA’s fault. They still get a pass from many. It’s an argument that’ll never end and have folks on both sides. @RichG most young Cubans there want out of communism and are finding ways off the island. They’re apathetic to politics in general. Cubans here are probably tilted in favor of the embargo. Again, there certainly is an animosity towards the Cuban government behind that sentiment. I just don’t agree that for 60 years the Cuban voters in Florida have been the biggest hurdle to ending the embargo. “Opposing party” has held all 3 chambers numerous times over the decades and has never lifted the embargo.