Popular Post El Presidente Posted December 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2021 https://www.cigarjournal.com/top-25-of-2021-the-complete-list/ 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Islandboy Posted December 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2021 Several years back I signed up for a a year's subscription to CJ, thinking that being a Europe-centric mag, I’d get lots of Cuban cigar reviews. Turns out they looove their Nicaraguan pepper-bombs more than I ever imagined - most issues didn’t have a single CC in their review section. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliano88 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Their non cuban clients need their return on investment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar Surgeon Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I can't wait until my group does our Top 25. Going to be spitting straight fire about 2021. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I'm going off memory here. but if I remember correctly, to be on their list, it had to be a new release in the past 12 months. So that basically removes the possibility of any cubans being on their top 25. Edit: Confirmed. List should be renamed "Top 25 new releases" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ford2112 Posted December 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2021 Good thing they listed that Ghurka in there or I might have missed out!! 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLC Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I took a quick glance and it looked like 1 token Cuban but again scrolled through a high speed. If that is the case,they must be buying their Cubans in the beach 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kaptain Karl Posted December 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2021 HSA doesn’t pay for advertisement. NC companies do. No need to pay much attention to these “top 25” lists. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hammer Smokin' Posted December 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2021 Cigar Journal's top 25 throat burners. 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Japan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I have to jump in this discussion as I'm part of the CJ panel. Like all the end year list, also this one make us discuss a lot, every year. But everyone knows that I'm 90% a cuban smoker ( maybe more ) so I also suffer in not seeing any or few of the magic island. Reason is simple and it's not advertising ( not only ok? 😉 ) At CJ they send out fresh cigars, yearly production, and we all know that our CC 99% of case start giving us pleasure ( at least at me ) after 5 years..10..15...20 years. We buy and forget. Nicaragua, Honduras, S:Domingo, Costarica etc etc, are 99% of the time ready to smoke ( strong or not strong ) How hell can we expect that fresh cuban cigar will be in the list!So again, this is a classification on yearly production of fresh rolled cigars. My 0,2 cents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RDB Posted December 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2021 Sorry @Mr. Japan, but that really doesn’t stack up. If this is 2021 production (not new releases), then many of us here have boxes of 2021 Cubans which we’re enjoying smoking now. Sure, they may be different in 5-10 years’ time, but they don’t all go straight to long term storage. In fact overall I expect most CCs are smoked fresh. The idea they are all worse than non-CCs is, at best, implausible. Incidentally, if this is ‘new releases only’ and that excludes all regular production… pffft. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nino Posted December 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2021 Only 1 Cuban cigar in the list of a "Cigar Journal" - WTF, this is a joke not to be taken seriously .... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 It's funny to see so many people bash Cigar Journal's list without A) reading their rules and B.). ignoring my comment above that clarifies the rules What cuban cigar did they leave off their list? READ the rules people!! I shake my head every time people use the same tired line "It's about the advertising dollars!" Not, it isn't. Please provide the proof if I' wrong. I look forward to that same tired line being used with CA comes out with their list. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 16 hours ago, Monterey said: I'm going off memory here. but if I remember correctly, to be on their list, it had to be a new release in the past 12 months. Not regional either. So that basically removes the possibility of any cubans being on their top 25. Edit: Confirmed. List should be renamed "Top 25 new releases" 3 minutes ago, Monterey said: It's funny to see so many people bash Cigar Journal's list without A) reading their rules and B.). ignoring my comment above that clarifies the rules What cuban cigar did they leave off their list? READ the rules people!! I shake my head every time people use the same tired line "It's about the advertising dollars!" Not, it isn't. Please provide the proof if I' wrong. I look forward to that same tired line being used with CA comes out with their list. The rules leave me confused - you state "No regional" and the only Cuban cigar on that list is a ... Regional .... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 The rules aren't random, they made them up. If CJ don't like the results they can easily change their own rules. It's not like their hands are tied. How many CC enthusiasts have the same rule as CJ or halfwheel that they don't smoke or review any regular production cigars? Seems like a rule you'd only accept or make up if you were mainly interested in NCs. 8 hours ago, Monterey said: CA comes out with their list. They usually have about 5 Cubans on their list. And regular production for the most part. Edit: only 3 in 2020: punch short de punch, BBF and RA no. 2. So 2 regular production and one EL. Edit 2: 2019 was CoRo, JL2 and Rio Seco. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edicion Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 "Only the cigars that were released less than two years ago were eligible for selection. Starting on December 16, 2021 we will publish our Top 25 cigars of the year 2021." Wouldn't the new regular production from 2020s PL Galanes, Connie 2, LFDC Elegidos and 2019s Trinidad Topes / ML / Esmeraldas be eligible? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Bijan said: The rules aren't random, they made them up. If CJ don't like the results they can easily change their own rules. It's not like their hands are tied. How many CC enthusiasts have the same rule as CJ or halfwheel that they don't smoke or review any regular production cigars? Seems like a rule you'd only accept or make up if you were mainly interested in NCs. Because they came up with their own unique list. "Top 25 New Releases" Seems like a neat idea. The result? People like you complain "Cohiba Robusto isn't on the list, its advertising dollars!!!" I actually find CJ's list interesting. A full top 25 list is not only dumb, but impossible. It is doable if you focus only on Cuban cigars like FOH does, but how could anyone create a true top 25 list when there are THOUSANDS of cigars to review. CJ decided to limit this list and focus on what is the top new releases. Great idea, until everyone who doesn't read the rules complains that the Sir Winston didn't make their "Top 25 new release" People bash CA's top 25 as well without reading the rules. Their list is the top 25 cigars of the cigars they reviewed in the past year. Yet people will complain that some Cuban didn't make the list even though it wasn't reviewed in the past year and therefore isn't eligible. Non-Cubans are getting more and more innovative and interesting. The great conditions (weather) that led to 2021 cubans cigars being so great (as well as 2019 and 2020) also benefited non-cubans. I've had some amazing non-cubans this year. 8 hours ago, Nino said: The rules leave me confused - you state "No regional" and the only Cuban cigar on that list is a ... Regional .... Sorry for the oversight. Not germane to the main point, but I'll go correct. Thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Monterey said: Seems like a neat idea. The result? People like you complain "Cohiba Robusto isn't on the list, its advertising dollars!!!" I didn't complain. I have never complained about these lists. I don't read cigar magazines, other than individual reviews. I'm just saying the rules don't in any way mean they aren't biased against CCs or biased in favour of NCs. And in fact quite the opposite, you wouldn't adopt that rule unless you were interested in NCs and had to deal with the insane number of releases and vitolas there. 5 minutes ago, Monterey said: Non-Cubans are getting more and more innovative and interesting. The great conditions (weather) that led to 2021 cubans cigars being so great (as well as 2019 and 2020) also benefited non-cubans. I've had some amazing non-cubans this year. Last I remember @Cigar Surgeon said that either 2020 or 2021 was a bad year for NCs as lack of ability to visit the factories meant QC went downhill, or something like that. But that's not an area I know about, so I leave it at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, Bijan said: They usually have about 5 Cubans on their list. And regular production for the most part. Edit: only 3 in 2020: punch short de punch, BBF and RA no. 2. So 2 regular production and one EL. Edit 2: 2019 was CoRo, JL2 and Rio Seco. I'm not sure your point here. CA has their own rules to be in their top 25. Not new releases. It just has to be reviewed in the past 12 months by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, Monterey said: I'm not sure your point here. CA has their own rules to be in their top 25. Not new releases. It just has to be reviewed in the past 12 months by them. Oh ok. I thought you were saying that the CA list had the same problem. I was just saying that to my memory they generally have a few regular production CCs on their list each and every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduin Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Monterey said: Because they came up with their own unique list. "Top 25 New Releases" Seems like a neat idea. The result? People like you complain "Cohiba Robusto isn't on the list, its advertising dollars!!!" I actually find CJ's list interesting. A full top 25 list is not only dumb, but impossible. It is doable if you focus only on Cuban cigars like FOH does, but how could anyone create a true top 25 list when there are THOUSANDS of cigars to review. CJ decided to limit this list and focus on what is the top new releases. Great idea, until everyone who doesn't read the rules complains that the Sir Winston didn't make their "Top 25 new release" People bash CA's top 25 as well without reading the rules. Their list is the top 25 cigars of the cigars they reviewed in the past year. Yet people will complain that some Cuban didn't make the list even though it wasn't reviewed in the past year and therefore isn't eligible. Non-Cubans are getting more and more innovative and interesting. The great conditions (weather) that led to 2021 cubans cigars being so great (as well as 2019 and 2020) also benefited non-cubans. I've had some amazing non-cubans this year. I think calling a list that includes cigars that have been on the market for a while "dumb" is a bit excessive and frankly quite debatable. I think there is value in comparing new releases to established great cigars. It's a good way to gauge if there is actually innovation or if the new stuff is just marketing that is not better (or maybe even worse) than the old stuff. CA includes both old and new stuff so it is doable. I haven't smoked any NCs in the past year and a half, but seeing that 21 of the 25 on the list are "peppery" I have to say don't feel very compelled to check them out. What is making new NCs innovative and interesting in your opinion? I'm legitimately curious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Bijan said: Oh ok. I thought you were saying that the CA list had the same problem. I was just saying that to my memory they generally have a few regular production CCs on their list each and every year. What is interesting is in the past magazine they reviewed the Sir Winston (2017) and gave it a poor score due to all their samples being plugged. But all Cuban cigars lovers just want to seem to sweep constructions issues under the rug. Cubans will always suffer in ratings due to poor construction. 8 hours ago, Enduin said: I think calling a list that includes cigars that have been on the market for a while "dumb" is a bit excessive and frankly quite debatable. I think there is value in comparing new releases to established great cigars. It's a good way to gauge if there is actually innovation or if the new stuff is just marketing that is not better (or maybe even worse) than the old stuff. CA includes both old and new stuff so it is doable. I haven't smoked any NCs in the past year and a half, but seeing that 21 of the 25 on the list are "peppery" I have to say don't feel very compelled to check them out. What is making new NCs innovative and interesting in your opinion? I'm legitimately curious. That is what CA does. Check out their list, it will be out in 3 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bijan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Monterey said: What is interesting is in the past magazine they reviewed the Sir Winston (2017) and gave it a poor score due to all their samples being plugged. But all Cuban cigars lovers just want to seem to sweep constructions issues under the rug. Cubans will also suffer in ratings due to poor constructions. Well Sir Winston was their #5 cigar of 2018, at a 94, with an OCT 2017 box code https://www.cigaraficionado.com/top25cigar/h-upmann-sir-winston-2018 Worst they've rated it is 87 in 2000-2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enduin Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Monterey said: That is what CA does. Check out their list, it will be out in 3 weeks I know, my point is: do you think their list is dumb because it includes older releases? Because that is what it seems like you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterey Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Bijan said: Well Sir Winston was their #5 cigar of 2018, at a 94, with an OCT 2017 box code https://www.cigaraficionado.com/top25cigar/h-upmann-sir-winston-2018 Worst they've rated it is 87 in 2000-2001. Sir Winston is one of the greatest cigars of all time. And despite my current venting, I'm mostly a Cuban guy. Probably 70/30. The sir winston got an 88. Had they had another one from the box that wasn't plugged, it would have gotten a 95. And that is the problem! 7 hours ago, Enduin said: I know, my point is: do you think their list is dumb because it includes older releases? Because that is what it seems like you were saying. Ok. I was saying a full list of all cigars a "True top 25" is dumb because it isn't possible to do. As I said previously, CA does a top 25 list of the reviews they did in the past 12 months. A combination of new and old releases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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