Finding the balance between the common good, personal rights and the ability to freely express an opinion that is devoid of hate and malice.

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, porkchop said:

This is a gross oversimplification bordering on misinformation.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/08/mccaughey-new-vax-sciences-shows-mandates-unwise/

I was careful not to deal with this case, of vaccinated person with covid vs. unvaccinated person with covid. (these articles show that viral load is similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated, symptom and no symptom when the person has covid).

However what we can say with relative certainty though is that a vaccinated person is less likely to test positive for covid. And in that case we can definitely say there is less viral load. As the viral load being past a certain threshold is what triggers a positive test.

So as I said the vaccines would reduce transmission not by making people with covid less infectious, but by reducing the number of people with covid.

[CaptainQuintero]

28 minutes ago, porkchop said:

This is a gross oversimplification bordering on misinformation.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/08/mccaughey-new-vax-sciences-shows-mandates-unwise/

  Like I said, a casual basis. I've zero desire to argue for opinions either way, just to simply to state the established science that has already been laid down for quite some time now. The raw data from peer reviewed national/international sized studies plus the development papers from Pfizer/Moderna/Oxford are there to download and digest. But understandably there isn't much appetite for that so simplification seems best.

  Clearly things may change as new variants appear but we're not going to uncover something online that scientists or national health executives have missed. You've quoted a tiny study of 800 which is specifically looking at one breakthrough variant under very specific conditions and an opinion piece from an author. They aren't a smoking gun that's going to rip through the mountains of studies, trials, data that decisions have been based off.

  As someone mentioned previously, you'll be able to find a small study or statistic to back up pretty much any point if you wish. There's a specific method behind the way the vaccines work that can't be argued with because they work using that very method. If someone wants to argue that they don't work then again I've zero appetite for engaging with that. It's been too long and I'm sure you'll forgive me if I don't want to be transported back to Fall of last year!

  I'd only say that newspapers and small studies serve a purpose but like we trust Cubans to manufacture our cigars and Rob to pick them, value the people who have used a lifetime of pushing cutting edge science to make the vaccines and the medical experts with much, much greater knowledge than us when they give advice

 Hope you and yours stay safe 👍

 

[inter4alia]

This thread needs more repetition. I'm not sure yet I understand what everyone's positions are on this issue. Can everyone please restate your positions again, maybe it will help me understand 😉

[porkchop]

 

 

[Fuzz]

6 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  As someone mentioned previously, you'll be able to find a small study or statistic to back up pretty much any point if you wish.

 

[HopeUgood]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:08 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

I'm vaccinated. My wife is not. 

I find it very difficult to have a discussion on anything related. We can't do virtually anything anymore, as vax status is required to go anywhere indoors, to any event, virtually to do anything. 

If you aren't having an issue, I suspect where you live it isn't as restrictive to be non vaxxed?

San Francisco, where you need to be vaccinated to fart.  

I just thought not bringing my gf anywhere was an added bonus ?  🤨