Sticks suddenly turned to mush

[Meesterjojo]

Well, everything not inside my raching has gotten mushy. 

They're all kept at 64-66% rh and under 68F. Tuperdores, smaller audew 300 count humidor. All of em. Several govees, all calibrated recently. Several cigar oasis hygrometer, also recently recalibrated.

The thing is they're all super smooth now to smoke. Have zero problems maintaining a light, but the wrappers on all of them are soft and get brittle as I smoke near the end. It's as if all the moisture inside decided to give up and come out, but now the wrappers have sucked it all in.

Ambient rh here, if your curious, is usually under 60% for half the day, and the other half under 10%.

What gives? It's just so sudden and has impacted everything. I'm experimenting with dry boxing a few.

Hopefully this post isn't in the wrong forum. 

[smbauerllc]

I honestly have no idea, but will wait to see the response from someone more knowledgeable than me. I'm very curious

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

[Ginseng]

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm receiving you. What exactly  are you saying has happened to the cigars? Leave out all of the stuff about storage.

[Çnote]

1 hour ago, Ginseng said:

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm receiving you. What exactly  are you saying has happened to the cigars? Leave out all of the stuff about storage.

I too would love to help think through this. What is the humidity and temp when you smoke @Meesterjojo?

For example, I'd love to have a smoke now, but it's 90ish °f and thick humidity. I'll either have burn problems, wrapper cracking or severely muted flavors.

Did you recently have some weather come through? It sounds like your storage isn't the issue, especially as it's hitting multiple passive units, correct? And the only unit it's not hitting is an active unit?

 

 

[Mickey D]

From what I’m understanding and I could be wrong, it seems the cigars are over humidified and swelling once the burn gets nearer the head, causing the wrapper to crack. Is that correct?

[NW_Oregon]

4 minutes ago, Mickey D said:

From what I’m understanding and I could be wrong, it seems the cigars are over humidified and swelling once the burn gets nearer the head, causing the wrapper to crack. Is that correct?

this would be my guess as well, it can take months for the filler to even out in RH with the wrapper and binder. maybe just give it more time Meesterjojo

[MrBirdman]

I'm a little confused as you say the wrappers suck up the moisture but are brittle - normally a result of dryness. All cigars become softer as you get closer to the cherry from the heat. This will also cause a slight expansion of the filler, but unless you're overpuffing it shouldn't be noticable. 

My recommendation would be to not squeeze the cigar while you're smoking it, if that's what you're doing. Even a light squeeze can crack wrappers in my experience. If your wrappers are still cracking without squeezing, you may be smoking too quickly. Cigars kept at those RH levels shouldn't routinely crack unless they're smoked way too fast or already damaged. 

[Ginseng]

I've found that with nearly any cigar that's underway (around 1/4 - 1/3 smoked so it's warmed up and softened up), rolling or squeezing it gently is unlikely to cause the wrapper to crack. Even less so the head because it's spent quite some time in the humid environment around the mouth.

[MrBirdman]

13 minutes ago, Ginseng said:

I've found that with nearly any cigar that's underway (around 1/4 - 1/3 smoked so it's warmed up and softened up), rolling or squeezing it gently is unlikely to cause the wrapper to crack. Even less so the head because it's spent quite some time in the humid environment around the mouth.

Yeah it's certainly less likely to crack than it is before you're smoking, but I've experienced a few cracked wrappers from squeezing during smoking and don't see much reason to do so unless you're dealing with a plug. 

[mprach024]

49 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

Yeah it's certainly less likely to crack than it is before you're smoking, but I've experienced a few cracked wrappers from squeezing during smoking and don't see much reason to do so unless you're dealing with a plug. 

I always squeeze my cigars!  You don’t?  
 

The fact it hit all cigars simultaneously says environmental to me.  The fact your hygrometers are ok is a conundrum, but Id suggest dry boxing over a few days, or try dropping your RH down closer to 62.  I have always found a bigger difference in my cigars at 66 compared to 65 versus 63 and 62.  I think they are just too moist somehow.  

Try putting a hygrometer in the middle of your stack versus the outside edges, like maybe in one of your boxes that’s only got a few sticks in it.  I’m guessing you’ll see 66 or higher which is just too moist.  

[Meesterjojo]

To clarify, I hope, my sticks have gotten soft suddenly, and the wrappers are soft and brittle now.

This happened within the span of a week here. 

I thought storage and conditions might be relevant, sorry.

I'm guessing the sticks need more time, most of them have only been here 3-7 months. The wrappers are what have me concerned the most. They just seem over humidified.

I wonder if it's possible I've not had a proper smoke, since I have all this up, in years and years?

[MrBirdman]

3 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

I always squeeze my cigars!  You don’t?  

Of course!  But I try not to overdo it because I've cracked so many wrappers doing so.

[Meesterjojo]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

I'm a little confused as you say the wrappers suck up the moisture but are brittle - normally a result of dryness. 

Verily, but normally the wrappers, pre light, have a firmer feel. I'm imagining they're moist but really they're not. 

Cigars being squishy is one thing, and I'm not complaint. They all feel great now. Even the plug lumps in some of my older boxes of D4s are gone.

The only other detail I left out is that I've been burping the old humidor and tuperdores multiple times a week to help lower humidity.

[Cigar Surgeon]

45 minutes ago, Meesterjojo said:

To clarify, I hope, my sticks have gotten soft suddenly, and the wrappers are soft and brittle now.

This happened within the span of a week here. 

I thought storage and conditions might be relevant, sorry.

I'm guessing the sticks need more time, most of them have only been here 3-7 months. The wrappers are what have me concerned the most. They just seem over humidified.

I wonder if it's possible I've not had a proper smoke, since I have all this up, in years and years?

A soft wrapper would mean that it's properly humidified. A brittle wrapper would mean it's under humidified. Over humidified would result in the foot or cap splitting when you start to smoke it, or in cases where it was substantially over humidified, just sitting in the humidor. Cubans will also 'pop' if you take them from a humidified environment to a radically different environment (room temperature and humid inside, cold and dry outside).

Softness isn't a reliable measure except in most cases to determine whether a cigar is properly filled or not. It should, in most cases, have a light spring to it.

[Ginseng]

58 minutes ago, Meesterjojo said:

the wrappers are soft and brittle now.

They just seem over humidified.

These two things don't go together. 

• The wrapper is brittle, fragile, cracks = the wrapper leaf is dry
• The wrapper is soft, stretchy, wrinkles = the wrapper leaf is moist

If your sticks feel soft and spongy under light pressure now, when initially they felt firmer and resilient to a gentle squeeze, then they have become overhumidified. Either that or a colony  of tobacco beetles have eaten the guts out of your cigars.

Properly humidified habanos (aside from the Cohiba Maduro 5, maybe) should feel like ultra-fine leather when properly conditioned. If it feels like the outer layers of an onion, it is too dry. If it feels like a spinach leaf at the grocery, it is too wet.

[Ginseng]

54 minutes ago, Meesterjojo said:

The only other detail I left out is that I've been burping the old humidor and tuperdores multiple times a week to help lower humidity.

This is a problem. This means that they  are substantially over humidified until you get in there, what, 3-5 times for a few seconds to let out the excess humidity? 

Basically, they are spending a life that is 99.5% over humidified and 0.5% on the way to being over-humidified.

[La_Tigre]

This reads like the infection spread of a zombie movie… 😂 

[Çnote]

6 hours ago, Meesterjojo said:

64-66% rh and under 68F.

You may want to consider dropping this % more and letting everything come to equilibrium over 6 months.

[Kevin48438]

Where and when are the cracks happening?   Have a picture?

[Meesterjojo]

1 hour ago, Çnote said:

You may want to consider dropping this % more and letting everything come to equilibrium over 6 months.

Verily. 

 

I've switched to 62% boveda a few months ago and the rh is reading as reported above- 64-66% sometimes a bit higher. 

 

The wrappers definitely aren't like a fine leather, as was stated earlier. Reminds me of a dry dolma grape leaf. Stretchy, but so delicate. That's why I'm so concerned. 

 

It's just odd why this happened so suddenly, but not to my stock in the big humidor. Granted, I haven't sampled or messed with those other than an occasional peek.

 

So, lower humidity and more rest, then? I'll have to see what boveda has under 62%. 

 

[Çnote]

1 minute ago, Meesterjojo said:

 

I've switched to 62% boveda a few months ago and the rh is reading as reported above- 64-66% sometimes a bit higher. 

 

I'd keep waiting until your boveda and humidity is the same. I'm actually doing the exact same thing, but I'm not having and weird wrappers like you describe, but also my stock is a little older. Just give it more time, I'd expect your low temperature is affecting the absolute humidity and its all taking time as the wrappers are drying out 1st, then the rest of the cigar to the core. 

[Meesterjojo]

8 minutes ago, Çnote said:

I'd keep waiting until your boveda and humidity is the same. I'm actually doing the exact same thing, but I'm not having and weird wrappers like you describe, but also my stock is a little older. Just give it more time, I'd expect your low temperature is affecting the absolute humidity and its all taking time as the wrappers are drying out 1st, then the rest of the cigar to the core. 

I'll admit it's slightly nerve wracking watching my rh sit at 66% with a 62% boveda, having calibrated multiple hygrometer. 

It says to me that the sticks are releasing a lot of humidity. But also suggests that the boveda isn't taking in the excess.

But yes, obviously time has gotten me here. Sigh

 

Thanks everyone. 

[...]

cigars is a hobby best accompanied by patience. As noted already, moisture changes within a cigar takes longer than it takes the air in a humidor to shift. Best of luck!

[Edicion]

16 hours ago, Meesterjojo said:

To clarify, I hope, my sticks have gotten soft suddenly, and the wrappers are soft and brittle now.

This happened within the span of a week here. 

I thought storage and conditions might be relevant, sorry.

I'm guessing the sticks need more time, most of them have only been here 3-7 months. The wrappers are what have me concerned the most. They just seem over humidified.

I wonder if it's possible I've not had a proper smoke, since I have all this up, in years and years?

Would be great to see some photos and /or video of the cigars when lit and these situations occur. I prob can't add any valuable info, just saying some imagery would help.