Dry Boxing

[Bijan]

I'd never been much for dry Boxing before. But I had sort of the inverse experience of many. Cigars that smoked fine in the winter cold straight out of the coolidor stopped burning right when it got warm out. So I dry boxed the cigar I'm smoking now for 12 hours in my living room at mid 30s humidity and it seems to have made quite a positive difference. I'm going to continue the experiment and see how it goes.

My method so far is to pick the cigar at noon for my night smoke and at night for my next day's midday smoke and then punch it or cut it and leave it on the table until it's time to smoke it.

I feel that dry boxing is one of those things that depends on the ambient conditions where one smokes, especially outside.

What's everyone's method and when do you dry box vs not?

[Chibearsv]

Mine are all kept relatively dry at 61-62 RH and 60-65F so they're generally ok to smoke right out of storage.  I keep a variety of 5-10 cigars in a dry desktop humidor that I keep in my smoking area and smoke whichever suits me for that day.  I just keep cycling cigars through that box so they're never in there for more than a couple days.  I'm not sure it makes a big difference smoking-wise, I mostly do it for convenience, it's easier for me to pick from the small menu rather than the entire stash although I deal with that issue deciding what to put in the box every couple days.  I get much better performance with the lower humidity than when I stored them at 65-69RH and didn't dry box.  I do get a very occasional unravel or complete blowout at the end of some smokes but I'm attributing that to construction since it happens so rarely.  

[Enduin]

I've never experimented much with dry-boxing, mostly because it involves knowing when you will smoke and for me that is rarely the case. However, with the recent draw issues I had with my Media Lunas, I'm now running a dry boxing experiment on the heaviest stick from the box which did have a moderately tight draw. I set it in a cedar box on the 20th and I'm planning to smoke it tomorrow the 26th so it will be 6 days of "dry" boxing. I have to use the quotation marks because humidity inside the house has not been very consistent since it only goes down to the low 50s when the A/C is running, and when it's not, like now, it's 63% so hardly dry. I'd say probably the cigar spent half of the time around 60% and the other half in the low 50s. I'll make sure to report back! One thing I can say is that I checked a couple of days ago and the draw was already considerably improved!

[Cigarsmoker81]

I’ve an odd ritual which works for me, I put my cigars in a ziplock bag for 3-4 days before I smoke them and it usually works for me 

[xsquid]

I have been thinking about this, but not dry boxing, but smoking environment.  I have noted that smoking in cool/cold and low humidity conditions result in poor smoking experience.  I am not sure if it is due to me puffing more to finish quicker and get inside to warm up or not, but I am not ruling it out.  I have noted recently that my first cigar in some time was outside on a 60+ deg. F day and the humidity was low, but the cigar smoked well.  I will note that my best experiences have been outside summer smokes in the evening with 70+ deg. F and below 70% humidity.  It seems if the environment is comfortable for me (moderate temps and humidity), the cigars seem to smoke well.  I do not smoke indoors so winter is a dry spell for me, nor will I smoke if it is high humidity (my comfort zone), so even if my porch has nice temps, if it is sticky I will not enjoy sitting out there.  All anecdotal observations no rigor in this data set.  I noted this on both CC and NC cigars.

[Hammer Smokin']

in keep my singles desktop at 60rh...

as such i'm ok to smoke as i pull a stick out...

used to keep it at 66-68rh and boy oh boy did I get plugged sticks. It may be luck or happenstance, but since I went to this method, I get more wind tunnel cigars....

which can be just as frustrating, due to the hot quick smoke. 

temp is always 65F in the house..plus minus two degrees or so. 

 

[Hollywood Ninja]

Yup, I’ll echo what most have said here. I use 58% packs in my wino for 60ish RH @ 65F and most draw and burn issues have taken care of themselves.


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[clickbangdoh]

I store around 65%, and I dry box. I generally just grab bunch of sticks and toss them in an old desktop that has no humidification in it. Smoke from there for a week or two. I smoke outside exclusively, and during the summer (i.e, almost 8 months of the year here..) it gets very, very, very humid. Without dry boxing I get lots of issues with draws and with combustion, especially the final third. If you store at a lower humidity than I do I could see not needing to, but I'm too scared to go as low as some of the others for long-term aging.

[mprach024]

Only thing I “dry” box are my petit Coronas, I keep a small separate humidor that has no humidification near my smoking station that I keep 4-6 PCs in.  When they are gone I refill, I typically rotate with Monte 4s, PLPC, Boli PC, Party Shorts.  Some dry boxing here because I find PCs have most construction issues, and if too moist plugged draws is common.  Plus there’s the added bonus of having a small stick handy.  Not uncommon for me on nights I have a robusto to want another small one a bit after.

 Everything else I keep at my smoking humidity preference, 60-61 For Montes and Bolis, 62-63 for pretty much everything else, Trinis and Cohibas are 64-65. I don’t do anything special to them before smoking usually because I’m lazy. 

[PigFish]

Dry-boxing is an iffy solution for those that cannot control a humidor, or have some reason to believe that storing a cigar outside of optimum smoking conditions for the cigar is desirable. All MHO...

I store cigars in a ready to smoke state. I have posted pics of my data logs all over this site before so I will spare you all here.

I see no reason to believe that storage in one state (beyond obvious extremes) is any better or worse for the cigar as a dead biologic in relationship to what taste you might derive from it as an unsmoked future collection of tobacco leaves. I do see a correlation of taste to water content in a cigar as a matter of smoking. I also see one of the cigar as a physical entity... a pipette that must promote air flow and at the same time uniform combustion. With those basic concepts in mind, there is a reason to store in a state of "prime" for smoking, and little or none beyond myth and subjective belief for any other state of storage. That is the thought process, mine anyway.

All smoking experiences are anecdotal. That collection of evidence, if objectively viewed will net you a position on what water content you prefer in your cigar. If the option were given you then, would you smoke all your cigars in the exact same state if you were to believe that a certain state is optimum? For me, the answer is yes. Why risk not getting the best from a cigar if you can actually control one or more factors that have empirically proven to promote a better verses worse smoking experience?

When I first started opining about Cuban cigars there was very little talk of cigars below that 70/70 number. People were complaining about plugged cigars, acrid tastes and other maladies that often accompany the 'wet' cigar. Things have changed about the view of keeping cigars dryer, however little appears to have changed about the myths of certain storage conditions, and the average smoker's ability to store cigars in a state that is actually prime for smoking.

I am still always tinkering with temp/rH as a matter of the ability to do so. Curiosity, ability and time have a way of keeping my interest in pursuing that 'exact' number (those exact numbers...). Do what you will, but I will continue to preach that there is no proven reason to store cigars outside of a state of empirically proven "best taste."

Cheers! -Piggy

[Çnote]

@PigFish <<micdrop>>

[Bijan]

@PigFish there are two things that I wonder about beyond storing directly for optimal smoking:

1) Is optimal storage/moisture content the same for all smoking conditions? (I smoke outside so ambient temperature and humidity can vary from 0-90F and 40-100% RH. If so should I be raising and dropping my storage humidity over the course of the year.

2) Does dry boxing result in a drier wrapper vs filler and is that desirable in terms of smoking? (It seems long term storage at optimal conditions must result in even moisture content in steady state).

[Çnote]

I 'drybox' in that I'll move 2-4 cigars to a more convenient, smaller desktop humidor from a large tupperdor.  Sometimes larger younger CC really benefit from a day or so. I'll also use this humidor to store singles for a couple weeks to get them acclimated. I use 1g 58% for storage and if I'm aggressively dryboxing I'll take out the boveda.

 I am running a couple % moist of ideal in the tupperdor as I acquired a couple of years worth of 72% 300g Boveda, but will be ratcheting down to 65%ish 

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Bijan said:

@PigFish there are two things that I wonder about beyond storing directly for optimal smoking:

1) Is optimal storage/moisture content the same for all smoking conditions? (I smoke outside so ambient temperature and humidity can vary from 0-90F and 40-100% RH. If so should I be raising and dropping my storage humidity over the course of the year.

2) Does dry boxing result in a drier wrapper vs filler and is that desirable in terms of smoking? (It seems long term storage at optimal conditions must result in even moisture content in steady state).

Any answer that I have is purely speculative and subjective based on my anecdotal experience. The truthful answer is 'I don't know...'

To know this answer, you would need years of data based on degrees/levels of storage conditions, contrasted to ambient conditions. The variations are infinite!!!

With that in mind, I store cigars based on what I perceive is the best condition for their smoking in my 'average' ambient. This is where I stop arguing/opining... This is where you (one) become(s) his/her own expert, outweighing my contribution.

While I opine like the rest of us, and typically I am convincing in my positions, I am not a guru. You simply must follow your own path once the data and opinions are all laid on the table. That is my best advice. If what anyone says is contrary to your best practices, you should carefully weigh the pull to follow over that of finding your own path.

Dry-boxing, hot-boxing are all viable for the short-term dehydration of cigars. What can happen here, again depending on a number of variables, is that you can experience structural breakdown of the cigar as a pipette if you are not careful. Wrapper/binder shrink can actually worsen your smoking experience if it chokes fat, wet core tobaccos. You can lose your cigars due to fines if you fracture the binder around that fat/wet core!

What do the Cubans do? They roll and send the cigars to the escaparate (sp). This space allows for slow degassing, reducing fines as fresh cigars are slowly dried.

My suggestion then is to slowly transform your cigars, and store them at smoking conditions. The Cubans mind you are in the business of selling cigars, not storing them. You must also know when to buck the trend and recognize that their goal is to support a cigar for boxing and shipment, and not to smoke it... (MHO). I therefore buck the trend to think that escaparate storage is prime for cigars. It may be prime for the Cubans to degas, box and ship their cigars, but it is not prime to smoke them. Smoking cigars that come from cold and wet conditions, conditions that tend to bind water to the cigar, is not the best way to smoke them.

All MHO...

Cheers! -Piggy

[Bijan]

43 minutes ago, PigFish said:

To know this answer, you would need years of data based on degrees/levels of storage conditions, contrasted to ambient conditions. The variations are infinite!!!

 

One interesting thing I've noticed in practice is that in the extreme cold there seems to be a lower rate of change that makes difference in ambient humidity less impactful.

I've smoked below freezing at humidity levels of 90s ot even 100% RH and it didn't have much effect on the cigar, even if it was snowing at the time. By contrast 100% RH and raining in summer heat will have a considerable effect during the 1-2 hours of smoking a cigar. Though the graphs suggest that long term steady state the colder temp should eventually result in a more moist cigar, it doesn't happen within that time frame.

Another factor that complicates things in terms of the infinite variations is the variation in density of cigars. It might be that wind tunnels benefit from different moisture content, than the cigars with a Cuban draw, and then again those that are relatively plugged. Part of the reason I punch or cut cigars and test the draw before any dry boxing experiments.

53 minutes ago, PigFish said:

My suggestion then is to slowly transform your cigars, and store them at smoking conditions.

This is my goal, to be able to go directly from storage to smoking. And I succeed most of the time. My only motivation here is to deal with changes in ambient conditions outside and also possibly differences in cigar density. I see a lot of fumbling with trial and error, in my future though...

When I started my intuition was that I'd need lower storage RH in winter, and higher RH in summer, due to a gradual shift in temperature in my storage over the year (not temperature controlled). But due to the effects of ambient conditions on the cigar while smoking, it seems that that is not the case. 

[david9985]

14 hours ago, Bijan said:

@PigFish there are two things that I wonder about beyond storing directly for optimal smoking:

1) Is optimal storage/moisture content the same for all smoking conditions? (I smoke outside so ambient temperature and humidity can vary from 0-90F and 40-100% RH. If so should I be raising and dropping my storage humidity over the course of the year.

2) Does dry boxing result in a drier wrapper vs filler and is that desirable in terms of smoking? (It seems long term storage at optimal conditions must result in even moisture content in steady state).

@Bijan, looking at your point 2) here. Thinking back to the FOHrensics experiment with the dried out Monte #4s, the completely dry one and even the optimum one were outperformed by the dry stick dipped in water. To me this implied that maybe cigars smoked better when the filler was drier relative to the wrapper. Who knows!! 😆

@PigFish, I support you in storing cigars in a perfect state for ready smoking. However, I do understand why people would choose to store at a slightly higher humidity: the cigars look shinier/oilier and the aroma when opening the humi is stronger and more appealing than at the lower optimum smoking range.

[Çnote]

@Bijan have you looked at absolute humidity vs relative humidity?

I find that if I try to smoke something with a delicate wrapper when the weather is warm and thick, that the wrapper will more than likely split. In the same conditions, anything 50rg+ will burn wonky and tend to go out and have either no flavor or off putting flavors. If I pick something skinny, I have to draw too hard to keep it lit and have hot flavors. I've been able to get around this by smoking either at sunrise or late at night, not sure if that works for you. In cool weather, I don't have any of these problems, at least not with regular production CC. I should take better notes, but I'm usually just happy to have a cigar. 

Oh, I never have had any problems with weirdly high absolute humidity on a carefully lit HUHC MCMC or CoSo, so there's that....

[Viva Vegas]

I live in the desert, humidity in summer at 1 to 8 % no need to dry box, actually when I am ready to smoke a stick i spray it down with water then fire it up, smokes great . This is what works for me.

[Bijan]

10 hours ago, Çnote said:

I've been able to get around this by smoking either at sunrise or late at night, not sure if that works for you.

Yeah late at night is my favourite time to smoke, so that helps as you say, also less wind where I'm at at night too. I do also something have a cigar around lunch time, that's the one I have to deal with more humidity issues.

10 hours ago, Çnote said:

In cool weather, I don't have any of these problems, at least not with regular production CC.

This is my experience as well.

[Çnote]

On 3/29/2021 at 5:47 AM, Bijan said:

I do also something have a cigar around lunch time, that's the one I have to deal with more humidity issues.

Jealous.

When I have had the schedule to smoke at lunch and it's been warm enough to have a high absolute humidity, I've found a well seasoned minuto to be my best choice, and if I were to approach anything larger that some sort of dry boxing was the way to go, even if it were to be placed in a unseasoned cedar/leather caddy for the morning(which would happen anyway for transportation) and had even better results if my smoke were to be delayed a day.

PigFish has done several essays in the past couple of years on relative vs absolute humidity, I can only imagine that what I have encountered is the tip of a well though out iceberg on water in cigars.

Tersely, what I have been able to glean from Piggy, is that cigars are essentially hydroscopic, and the more water in the atmosphere the more likely a less than ideal experience will happen. Storage basically makes the cigar a uniform level of humidification, which you Bijan, touched upon.

I'll be getting 65% 320g boveda by summer to reset my large tupperdor as I'm out of 72% bricks and the last is getting crunchy, so I'll be 'dryboxing' less, but plan to have more physically rts cigars on hand. I'd still drybox as per my personal experience and preferences in soupy weather, but for me I hope to have a change of work venue to something incredibly cigar friendly...

 

So, this is the next couple of weeks, or maybe the weekend.