Calling FOH Colombo's: What are the chances this is the real deal?

[El Presidente]

Hmmmmm 

What are the chances it is the real deal?

 

One for the FOH Colombo team 

click on the images for a larger file. 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

No idea. Something like that, intact, I'd want a pre-Rev specialist to confirm. 

Intact = much higher likelihood of fakes.

There are plenty of those Hoyo Humidors floating around, so I would imagine any pre-Rev specialist would know exactly what those are supposed to look like.

[El Presidente]

Just now, NSXCIGAR said:

No idea. Something like that, intact, I'd want a pre-Rev specialist to confirm. 

Intact = much higher likelihood of fakes.

Good advice 

[Çnote]

Yeah, looks too good to be real

[99call]

Questions:

- If someone has the original outer box, why does the internal box have so many external abrasions/scuffs?

- For cigars in cello (or in general) their doesn't appear to be a single band that has either black or green discolouration on the gold....why?

- The central cigar should have it's cello tail turned back on itself,  as the the 1st easy access cigar

- I actually think the cigars are real old hoyo's but taken from other cheap accessible boxes in Spain. 

- This still has a pretty high rating of 'potential legitness' for me.  but wrong place to buy. 

An easy search of both 'Worthpoint' and 'Orientaprecios Todocoleccion'  would find and determine fakes within 10mins, but sadly many sellers/buyers cant be bothered. 

 

As a side line.  

Couldn't love this more........Lt Columbo giving Frank Sinatra a hard time. 

 

 

[Chas.Alpha]

Dunno. I’ll stick with CigarCzar... 🤔

[Puros Y Vino]

Interesting. Could have sworn I saw an empty one changes hands on  FB group a month or two ago.

Found it. It was a Humidor No 2. The cellos on these look too "new".  And the point about 1 cigar in the middle not having the fold up front might be a telltale sign of chicanery. 

[99call]

16 minutes ago, PurosyVino said:

And the point about 1 cigar in the middle not having the fold up front might be a telltale sign of chicanery. 

I could agree to some degree, but in this case, if you have a collector committed enough to keep the outer box, I would suggest you would also expect to see the cigars relatively untouched and undisturbed.  As far as I am aware, the upturned central cello is a genuine cuban factory touch.   I have seen it on numerous sealed vintage boxes.

I guess you would bracket it with tissue wrapped central cigars in Upmann jars, and central tissue twists on tubo boxes. 

[NSXCIGAR]

It can be seen in the first pic some cigars have been removed for display. The turned end cigar could have been unknowingly placed back wrong. Not definitive. 

1 hour ago, 99call said:

If someone has the original outer box, why does the internal box have so many external abrasions/scuffs?

I don't know if those are scratches and abrasions. Could be fading or normal handling wear or even dirt or oil. The cab could have been on display out of the outer box. The outer box is pretty lame. I'd want to display the cab. Also, the images of the 1970s boxes seem to be a little more squared off. This one appears to be more rounded, possibly indicating it is correct to period.

1 hour ago, 99call said:

For cigars in cello (or in general) their doesn't appear to be a single band that has either black or green discolouration on the gold....

They are certainly in incredible condition. The bands in particular struck me. Perfect. Cello is crystal clear. Since the Humidor No.1 was made until the 1980s, I would say that it's likely these are the correct model cigars but not original to that box since the box is pre-Rev. 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't know if those are scratches and abrasions. Could be fading or normal handling wear or even dirt or oil

 

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Looking again, particularly at this image,  what I thought could be scuffs on the outer box, could in fact by mould, or break down of lacquer kept too wet. 

[Habana Mike]

For me, I'd believe the box and humidor are legit. Would be quite the work to counterfeit those.

Inside harder to say. I would expect some signs of age showing. Would be ideal to see what the cello looks like off.

If no discoloring at all, I'd have to lean toward to the content not being the original. I have 10-15 year old cigars where the cello is yellow.

Bond Roberts soon?

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Habana Mike said:

 

Bond Roberts soon?

Not in a million years 

[ATGroom]

The "Made in Havana-Cuba" stamp puts it pre-Rev or in the first couple of years after it.

The foiling on the bands looks pretty flat and muddy, which to me is more characteristic of 70s-80s-90s than pre-Rev when things were held to a bit of a higher standard.

The cigars look like a good fit for the box, so should be 44 x 145. Nothing else from Hoyo in this size and not much in other brands. What you can see of the heads look correctly bullet tipped. The colour across the row looks consistent.

Based on the bands, my instinct is that the box is refilled, but the question is what is it refilled with?

-Could be from other partial Humidor 1s, but it is unlikely the top row would have the colour consistency if so.

-Could be from some other cigar in the size, but everything else was in tubes and these look box pressed and there isn't a lot out there in any event.

-Could be a longer cigar cut down, but again almost nothing out there from Cuba with the ring and head finish. Could be an NC I'm not aware of. Search Results | Cuban Cigar Website

-Could be a custom roll, but it is an unusual head finish for anyone and the originals were machine-made. Seems like that would be beyond the capabilities of your average one-box-at-a-time vintage box refiller.

So, on balance, with the simplest explanation being the correct one, I am voting genuine. Wouldn't be banging down the door to buy them, however.

[mprach024]

I have zero expertise here.  Would expect the cello, having been exposed to the colors and oils of the tobacco for that long, to have a yellow/light amber tinge in spots where it was slowly stained.  Maybe they aren’t showing up because the sticks are still in it, but the edges look awfully clean.  I’d guess this was a repack.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Habana Mike said:

For me, I'd believe the box and humidor are legit. Would be quite the work to counterfeit those.

And no reason too. Hoyo Humidor No. 1s are fairly common both pre and post-Rev. It would not command top money, even intact. I would say the box and accessories are legit.

The cigars and it being intact is the issue. There's just no way those cigars are 60+ years old. @ATGroom points this out, and I also did notice they look like 70s-80s bands. They have that kind of fuzzy embossing but are very sharp and bright. As the 90s-00s wore on, they became pretty muddy. But these look like early-mid post-Rev. 

At best, they're 1980s substituted, and still they look too good for even that as they'd be coming up on 40 years old. @ATGroom also points out there are no other cigars ever made for Hoyo in cello with the old Conservas vitola. They do fit perfectly, and I agree they could very well be Hoyo Humidor No. 1, but almost certainly not the original sticks. 

If the sticks aren't original, all bets are off unless extreme provenance is provided with a full explanation and documentation. I'm assuming we don't have that here.