Humidity Beads Not Working

[asmazda]

I bought 60% humidity beads, did not add any water, put it in airtight Tupperware, and it reads 73%.  My ambient humidity is 58% and my digital hygrometer calibrated with Boveda’s calibration kit.  Any idea why this is happening?

[Çnote]

Your Tupperware is airtight and you have too much moisture in the system. Reduce the amount of beads or add dry cedar scraps.

[nKostyan]

I'm not sure that the beads have "two way humidity control". You need of bóveda, it is able to absorb excess moisture

[CaptainQuintero]

A few things to start with to get a clearer picture:

-How long have you had them in there

-How big is the tupperware

-How much beads

 

[joeypots]

When I need to de humidify I use this.

https://smile.amazon.com/Gallon-Premium-Indicating-Industry-Standard/dp/B013L2Z2MY/ref=sr_1_8?crid=7E3NW2GBZTJK&dchild=1&keywords=dry+and+dry&qid=1595772176&sprefix=dry+and+dry%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-8

Boveda's and other beads are great but when it's high summer sweltering, hazy, hot, and humid the only way I've been able to keep my cigars dry enough to enjoy is with Dry And Dry Beads. 

[asmazda]

Quote

Your Tupperware is airtight and you have too much moisture in the system. Reduce the amount of beads or add dry cedar scraps.

I know it is debatable how well beads remove/absorb moisture, but shouldn’t it at least stop releasing humidity?  The beads are 60% and the humidity level already correct but beads drove it up 13%.  
 

Would Boveda have the same issue?

[asmazda]

2 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

A few things to start with to get a clearer picture:

-How long have you had them in there

-How big is the tupperware

-How much beads

 

1. Empty it read 60%.  Within 3 hours shot up to 73%.  After 24 hrs still 73%.

2. 19 quarts Tupperware.

3. 4 oz. of beads.

[CaptainQuintero]

It will take weeks if not a good couple of months for your stock to change to the new conditions so that will probably be the first point for me

  You can speed things up/make the exchange more efficient, for lack of a better word, by having a larger amount of beads, but still it's going to be a game of patience. Opening the tupperdor up to check on things will only set the whole process back again and again until things have started settling down. I would have though more beads would be better for you though. I run 6lb in a disconnected wine fridge just to give me a bigger buffer for having the door open and picking/faffing about with what's inside

Hygrometers are a tricky things, they're only an indication. They can be off by 1-7% unless you're spending triple digits. They can show off readings if you haven't air flow etc too. If you can get to know the feel of cigars at rough rh that's a better indicator, ie how "crisp" a wrapper feels and if there's any crackle to it.

How are the cigars feeling when you gentle roll one between finger and thumb? If the beads haven't been made wet then they shouldn't be shooting the rh up that much, especially that amount in a large container. 

To be honest with your ambient conditions, the size of tupperdor, amount of beads and those readings it's sounding like there's a fault with one of those elements. 

How full is the tupperdor?

 We'll get to the bottom of it, there's no need to panic usually it comes down to patience and going through the steps to identify what step is not behaving.

[asmazda]

26 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

It will take weeks if not a good couple of months for your stock to change to the new conditions so that will probably be the first point for me

  You can speed things up/make the exchange more efficient, for lack of a better word, by having a larger amount of beads, but still it's going to be a game of patience. Opening the tupperdor up to check on things will only set the whole process back again and again until things have started settling down. I would have though more beads would be better for you though. I run 6lb in a disconnected wine fridge just to give me a bigger buffer for having the door open and picking/faffing about with what's inside

Hygrometers are a tricky things, they're only an indication. They can be off by 1-7% unless you're spending triple digits. They can show off readings if you haven't air flow etc too. If you can get to know the feel of cigars at rough rh that's a better indicator, ie how "crisp" a wrapper feels and if there's any crackle to it.

How are the cigars feeling when you gentle roll one between finger and thumb? If the beads haven't been made wet then they shouldn't be shooting the rh up that much, especially that amount in a large container. 

To be honest with your ambient conditions, the size of tupperdor, amount of beads and those readings it's sounding like there's a fault with one of those elements. 

How full is the tupperdor?

 We'll get to the bottom of it, there's no need to panic usually it comes down to patience and going through the steps to identify what step is not behaving.

Tupperdor is completely empty.  I was just doing test.  My hygrometer is correct.  Did Boveda calibration kit, and it measures the ambient humidity what it should be.  Without beads the tupperdor reads 60%.  As soon as I add beads shoots up to 73%.

[Rhinoww]

 what kind of beads - are you sure  they two way. 
 

If they are heartfelt, are they whit or clear?

[asmazda]

8 minutes ago, Rhinoww said:

 what kind of beads - are you sure  they two way. 
 

If they are heartfelt, are they whit or clear?

RHShield.  Yes they are advertised as 2-way with salts that is supposed to keep it at 60% and it is supposed to be +/-2% accuracy.

[Rhinoww]

22 minutes ago, asmazda said:

RHShield.  Yes they are advertised as 2-way with salts that is supposed to keep it at 60% and it is supposed to be +/-2% accuracy.

If they are clear they could be pretty wet still, although I can’t say for sure as I use the heartfelt. But if I overwater the heartfelt, those get mostly clear and my rh goes above 65. 

[CaptainQuintero]

47 minutes ago, asmazda said:

Tupperdor is completely empty.  I was just doing test.  My hygrometer is correct.  Did Boveda calibration kit, and it measures the ambient humidity what it should be.  Without beads the tupperdor reads 60%.  As soon as I add beads shoots up to 73%.

 While it might not be the end of the issue, you're not going to get an accurate reading of what your storage is going to be when testing an empty plastic box in a few hours with just beads in there. There's no material in there to absorb the moisture and act as buffer. Door is opened and the air is flying out and you have to start again.

  Eventually your cigars, boxes etc will reach the desired Rh and on paper will self regulate and act as a buffer if the humidor stays shut and sealed up/with stable temperature etc

  You can fill the humidor up with empty boxes to set it up but that's a couple of months wait and again you'll have to start again when you replace with full boxes as they adjust

  If it was me I'd fill the tupperdor up with your stock, filling any space up with empty cigar boxes, get a fan in to keep airflow going and leave it for 6+ weeks and see how it it goes. There's no reason why the beads won't be working if left to do their thing with the right set up and patience and treating hygrometers with a pinch of salt unless you're running data loggers and lab quality equipment

[Colt45]

19 hours ago, asmazda said:

did not add any water

The beads were not dampened at all? Without being dampened and no water in the container, they are a desiccant and at the very least, should not increase humidity.

[asmazda]

2 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

The beads were not dampened at all? Without being dampened and no water in the container, they are a desiccant and at the very least, should not increase humidity.

No, I didn’t add any water.  But they come pre-wet from the vendor.  1/3 of the beads look clear and rest looks dry to me.

[Colt45]

12 minutes ago, asmazda said:

No, I didn’t add any water.  But they come pre-wet from the vendor.  1/3 of the beads look clear and rest looks dry to me.

Well, my assumption would be that adding moisture to a sealed environment caused the increase. I understand how they are supposed / marketed to work. But if I'm trying to reduce humidity, I would never add any moisture - this is why I'm personally not a fan of the packs which are already moistened. I use beads and unscented crystal kitty litter. I never directly moisten them - when I need to add moisture, I use a small container of distilled water.

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, asmazda said:

Tupperdor is completely empty.  I was just doing test.  My hygrometer is correct.  Did Boveda calibration kit, and it measures the ambient humidity what it should be.  Without beads the tupperdor reads 60%.  As soon as I add beads shoots up to 73%.

 

1 hour ago, CaptainQuintero said:

 While it might not be the end of the issue, you're not going to get an accurate reading of what your storage is going to be when testing an empty plastic box in a few hours with just beads in there. There's no material in there to absorb the moisture and act as buffer

Actually, what the OP did was quite right. If you want to check the function of said buffer-material that's the way to go: i.e. check within a controlled, enclosed environment with no other absorbants that could interfere with it. BUT: Important thing to watch, you need to make (painstakingly) sure that the temperature is being kept absolutely stable during testing for a couple of hours, in order to make the system stabilize and get rH to swing in on a constant value. Any temperature change will lead rH to rise or plummet, depending on mass volumes and response time of the beads.

If you did calibrate your device just recently and 'fairly' well (temperature stability is key there also, when doing a salt-chamber test), and your beads-controlled atmosphere doesn't finally settle down on 60%-rH +/- any given uncertainty - and the product is claimed to be two-way - then it simply isn't working to the producer's specifications. Just as you suspect.

Get Piggy in onto this matter and he'll not hesitate to tell you that desiccant beads just don't work this way.

[asmazda]

10 minutes ago, Fugu said:

 

Actually, what the OP did was quite right. If you want to check the function of said buffer-material that's the way to go: i.e. check within a controlled, enclosed environment with no other absorbants that could interfere with it. BUT: Important thing to watch, you need to make (painstakingly) sure that the temperature is being kept absolutely stable during testing for a couple of hours, in order to make the system stabilize and get rH to swing in on a constant value. Any temperature change will lead rH to rise or plummet, depending on mass volumes and response time of the beads.

If you did calibrate your device just recently and 'fairly' well (temperature stability is key there also, when doing a salt-chamber test), and your beads-controlled atmosphere doesn't finally settle down on 60%-rH +/- any given uncertainty - and the product is claimed to be two-way - then it simply isn't working to the producer's specifications. Just as you suspect.

Get Piggy in onto this matter and he'll not hesitate to tell you that desiccant beads just don't work this way.

I have seen Piggy's posts and I think what he says makes sense for standard desiccant, but the beads for cigars are treated with salt much like Boveda packs.  And the advertised humidity level is achieved by adjusting amount of salts, just like Boveda does.

Thanks for confirming I'm not nuts to do such controlled test.  Yes, I understand relative humidity is relative.  The temp was stable at 70 degrees the whole time in climate controlled room.  So I guess they are simply not working to the producer's specifications.

Thanks for your .02 cents!

[Çnote]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:51 AM, asmazda said:

I know it is debatable how well beads remove/absorb moisture, but shouldn’t it at least stop releasing humidity?  The beads are 60% and the humidity level already correct but beads drove it up 13%.  
 

Would Boveda have the same issue?

In my experience, beads and boveda are not very good at taking moisture out of a system in practice. For me, at best, dryish boveda will take 2-3% out of a wet, closed system.

I personally think that 72% empty is pretty perfect to add stock, esp solid SLB.

When I started using a tupperdore, I did roughly the same thing. I have a 20ish gal unit with 2 320g Boveda 72% to keep 15 or so boxes and about 100 singles. The boveda have lasted about 20 months and are still super squishy. I don't temperature control, so it will flux between 69 and 74, giving a rh% of between 65 and 69, given that I open it twice a week or so. It will definitely trend up if I leave it closed for 10 days or more. When I run out of 320 72%, I'll go down to probably 65% boveda, but it looks like that will be awhile. 

 

 

[NickV]

Having a similar issue with a coolerdor I am trying to set up. Currently have the bottom lined  with cedar blanks and two cedar trays ordered from amazon. Properly calibrated hygrometer and 1/2 lb of heartfelt beads no water added (manufacturer instructions). It is running around 71-72%. Beads are 65%. Beads and trays have only been in there a few days together. Also whiped down cedar with distilled water and let it dry out a few days before adding the beads. Any thoughts?

[Burningman]

2 hours ago, NickV said:

Having a similar issue with a coolerdor I am trying to set up. Currently have the bottom lined  with cedar blanks and two cedar trays ordered from amazon. Properly calibrated hygrometer and 1/2 lb of heartfelt beads no water added (manufacturer instructions). It is running around 71-72%. Beads are 65%. Beads and trays have only been in there a few days together. Also whiped down cedar with distilled water and let it dry out a few days before adding the beads. Any thoughts?

I had a similar issue and after plenty of tests and experiments with the beads I figured out heartfelt had sent 70% instead of 65% beads. It took some time to get the issue resolved however the replacement beads worked like a charm. 

I have been using Heartfelt beads for many years. They are a great product. My only issue is that the customer service has is not as good as it used to be. Isolate the beads in some Tupperware and see where you are in a day or two. If you live on a humid climate you may want to try and dehydrate your beads a bit. If you have a room with a dehumidifier leave them out a few days to see if that helps.

[NickV]

3 hours ago, Burningman said:

I had a similar issue and after plenty of tests and experiments with the beads I figured out heartfelt had sent 70% instead of 65% beads. It took some time to get the issue resolved however the replacement beads worked like a charm. 

I have been using Heartfelt beads for many years. They are a great product. My only issue is that the customer service has is not as good as it used to be. Isolate the beads in some Tupperware and see where you are in a day or two. If you live on a humid climate you may want to try and dehydrate your beads a bit. If you have a room with a dehumidifier leave them out a few days to see if that helps.

Thanks, but packaging clearly state 65. Unless the wrong beads went into the right packaging? If my luck is that bad I’ll just live with a 70% humidity and dry box my ass off lol

[SCgarman]

Ditch the beads and go with the Boveda products. The fact they absorb and emit humidity makes them superior to anything else on the market. And, when they begin to dry and harden up, they can be recharged very easily and reused.

[Baccy]

I use a combo of Heartfelt "65" beads and 65% boveda packs. I know that Heartfelt advertises their beads as two way but I just don't think they really are and I honestly don't even see how they could hold much moisture at all. They ARE however, very good at releasing water vapor, and that's what I use them for. I mainly have them there to "feed" my boveda packs. It's like a never ending cycle. I feed the beads with pure distilled h2o and they feed the boveda packs and keeps them from ever drying out. It's quiet the system for my coolidors. The beads are a little pricey, but they pay for themselves in the long run!

[asmazda]

21 minutes ago, Baccy said:

I use a combo of Heartfelt "65" beads and 65% boveda packs. I know that Heartfelt advertises their beads as two way but I just don't think they really are and I honestly don't even see how they could hold much moisture at all. They ARE however, very good at releasing water vapor, and that's what I use them for. I mainly have them there to "feed" my boveda packs. It's like a never ending cycle. I feed the beads with pure distilled h2o and they feed the boveda packs and keeps them from ever drying out. It's quiet the system for my coolidors. The beads are a little pricey, but they pay for themselves in the long run!

Wow, cool trick!