Blast from the past: Goring

[El Presidente]

The Herman Goring cigar glass case is broken but the cigar ring with Goring crest is intact

Currently being auctioned as part of a set. 

 

 

[tigger]

I've never understood saving trinkets from the likes of him. It would have been well for all of it to have been burned long ago.

IMO, of course.

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, tigger said:

I've never understood saving trinkets from the likes of him. It would have been well for all of it to have been burned long ago.

IMO, of course.

think i might be in agreement with that. but on the other hand, if we ignore history, then every chance we repeat it. 

i'd have them displayed in a museum next to photos, relics and reports of the atrocities he and his ilk were responsible for. 

what i would really hate would be for them to be put up for sale or auction and purchased by some sympathetic sycophantic 'collector' as trophies. 

[Chibearsv]

Is a cigar forum the right place to post Nazi memorabilia?  If the mission was to irritate some of your members, you've succeeded in doing that to at least one of them.  I get that there's a cigar in the photo but really?

[Bucky McSwensen]

I'm gonna post pics of my John Wayne Gacy humidor soon.

[tigger]

6 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

think i might be in agreement with that. but on the other hand, if we ignore history, then every chance we repeat it. 

I concur. I also think there's plenty of memorabilia out there that wasn't owned by the German High Command/Stalin/Mao that we can remember from without holding on to their stuff. 

[Ken Gargett]

posting or not is a decision i would leave entirely to rob.

if it were posted to celebrate the nazis, i'd be very much on the rip it down side but i don't believe it is for a minute. 

i don't think ignoring them or pretending they didn't exist is helpful and this does have a cigar connection. so does much related to castro and no issue posting re him here. 

think we just have to keep it all in context. 

[El Presidente]

11 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

 If the mission was to irritate some of your members, you've succeeded in doing that to at least one of them.  I get that there's a cigar in the photo but really?

Of course not. 

I will remove the other photo but the cigar photo can stay. 

Some of recent history's most loathsome characters have had private bands and they have been posted here. 

[Chibearsv]

3 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Of course not. 

I will remove the other photo but the cigar photo can stay. 

Some of recent history's most loathsome characters have had private bands and they have been posted here. 

Understood, thank you

[Drguano]

12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Some of recent history's most loathsome characters have had private bands and they have been posted here. 

And some of the most lovable!

I agree that history should be remembered to avoid repeating and that the world has moved forward so that I can say I am delighted to be a friend of the creator of this cigar band.  (Don’t mention the war!)

[MPS]

I recently saw an Instagram post of a well regarded Italian collector showing off his Nazi SS DuPont Lighter. 
 

This on the other hand surprised me: 

https://apple.news/AILilnZtsNwuk3HMg1giK1g

[Arctic Dude]

Being a Canadian of a certain age, my first thought was that this was about Butch Goring!! I couldn’t quite figure out why a cigar of his would be auctioned off?!? ?

[Mikeltee]

24 minutes ago, Drguano said:

And some of the most lovable!

I agree that history should be remembered to avoid repeating and that the world has moved forward so that I can say I am delighted to be a friend of the creator of this cigar band.  (Don’t mention the war!)

May I ask the significance to this band? Google was no help. You have piqued my interest. PM if you must avoid hurting someone's feelings. Thanks...

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Understood, thank you

trust me, if rob ever turns up to my place with a charlie chaplin mo and goosestepping onto my balcony, this forum will be the first to know. 

[Drguano]

In each of us, there is an image or symbol that trigger a powerful response. That response might be positive or negative. The same image or symbol might have the opposite effect on two different people. The best outcome is when those two people can have a dialogue and respect each other's views. Some symbols are so divisive that there is little chance of accepting the opposite side's point of view. I think the Swastika falls into that group. That said, I do not for a moment picture Rob strutting around with an armband (well, maybe for just a moment) and I can look at the historical import of Goering's cigar and see the context. I am Jewish. My dad was in the Canadian Army and fought the fascists in the Second World War. Germany today is a very different place and they remember the history and will not go there again. Let's hope it is not repeated anywhere else. And now for a cigar and a whisky.

[Habana Mike]

1 hour ago, Mikeltee said:

May I ask the significance to this band? Google was no help. You have piqued my interest. PM if you must avoid hurting someone's feelings. Thanks...

Google “Flying Cigar blog”.

i expect you’ll get a hit and find out dear friend Nino at the other end of the link.

 

[tigger]

29 minutes ago, FatherOfPugs said:

Unfortunate that photos trigger folks nowadays...As Ken said, if we don't learn

 Again, sad that photos trigger people nowadays. 

Trigger, trigger, trigger. ?

I am offended by the very thought of Herman Göring and his ilk. Lord help me on the day I'm not.

That comes from having had the honor of knowing and hearing stories from some of the brave men who put their lives on the line to stop the evil that he and his wrought.

Not from "pictures."  

I don't, btw, think Rob intended to offend or associate with Nazi's in posting this.

[Bucky McSwensen]

I think a big thing with the whole "triggered" concept is that there's a balance between deal with free speech and everything is fair game and making concessions to help people out.  I am a huge proponent of free speech.  I love making jokes about all sorts of dark stuff but I don't make those jokes at work or when teaching obviously because it forces someone who did not choose to be exposed to those allegedly humorous topics to "deal with it".  In a bar, at my home, with my friends and family all is fair game.

But I've also learned that some shit isn't worth mentioning even among friends.  I am a messed up person and I find joy in the darkness of messed up things, but the love of my life plainly explained to me that when I joke about a certain terrible act (let's just call it rape jokes for example) in front of people that statistically some people may not out themselves as being sensitive and affected by the topic or be victims of the topic.  And whatever slight joy I find in the freedom to "tell it like it is" or have no filter, it has a chance to offend and alienate people who shouldn't have to deal with my comfort level.  The golden rule of treat others how you want to be treated is kinda BS as it doesn't really include empathy which is consider how others want to be treated.

I am not suggesting a book burning or erasing history.  There is no benefit in that ignorance.  But there's context to addressing topics and consequences depending on that context.  If someone is triggered by one of my jokes or historic memorabilia being posted on a forum they aren't entitled to not hear or see it.  But we as the people submitting content aren't entitled to everyone supporting our strong bravery for boldly not being offended by controversial topics and finding positive aspects beneath the surface level filth.

I think this was handled well, I appreciate the intent of information, I think the context wasn't addressed in a clear way, I applaud those with concerns speaking up as that isn't easy, and I appreciate that when concerns were voiced changes were made.  I apologize for my crude free speech analogy but it was a recent conversation in my crew that seemed to parallel this one for one.  Just because I can handle something doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to  full disclosure I'm a hypocrite I still make all my food spicy because screw everyone that can't handle the way I like to cook.

[CaptainQuintero]

  My childhood best friend's Grandad was an MP at the jail where Goering was being held after capture and took the opportunity to kick the former Reichsmarschal square up the ring piece.

  That's all I have to add to the discussion

  

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  My childhood best friend's Grandad was an MP at the jail where Goering was being held after capture and took the opportunity to kick the former Reichsmarschal square up the ring piece.

  That's all I have to add to the discussion

  

may i say, i suspect on behalf of many of us, i hope it was a steel toed boot and i hope he really put his heart and soul into his work. i doubt i'd have been able to stop at that. 

[CaptainQuintero]

45 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

may i say, i suspect on behalf of many of us, i hope it was a steel toed boot and i hope he really put his heart and soul into his work. i doubt i'd have been able to stop at that. 

  As far as I know; iron toe and heel plates along with hobnails were the standard (aka Ammunition Boots) at the time 

 

[...]

It seems as if getting triggered is part virtue signalling, part immature emotional control. I try and judge based on intentions more than words selection. The best way to understand what one is trying to say is to open the discussion. I might be misadapted to the era though ?

[RDB]

We all make mistakes. This post was a mistake.

[dominattorney]

I am starting to see the wisdom behind the rule against discussion of current politics.....