Mold Plume article

[Puros Y Vino]

I like "Jenna's" comment following the article.  And shortly thereafter, the author makes a doozy of a comment which is a clear cop out.

"bostonjimmie says:

December 8, 2019 at 10:54 pm

Boston Jimmie here – I want to thank everyone who has commented on this article. I feel it proved it’s point – mold vs plume is the most controversial topic in the cigar community. I purposely used the Tatajue cigar photo as an example of plume and it got the reaction I expected. Those that believe plume is real and those that believe it is not stated without testing that it is mold. Of course those that don’t believe in plume any such material is mold but those that do believe in plume- how can you say what it is if you don’t have the physical cigar in you hands? In the end use your own judgment and smoke what pleases you."

?‍♂️

[...]

9 minutes ago, bundwallah said:

I like "Jenna's" comment following the article.  And shortly thereafter, the author makes a doozy of a comment which is a clear cop out.

"bostonjimmie says:

December 8, 2019 at 10:54 pm

Boston Jimmie here – I want to thank everyone who has commented on this article. I feel it proved it’s point – mold vs plume is the most controversial topic in the cigar community. I purposely used the Tatajue cigar photo as an example of plume and it got the reaction I expected. Those that believe plume is real and those that believe it is not stated without testing that it is mold. Of course those that don’t believe in plume any such material is mold but those that do believe in plume- how can you say what it is if you don’t have the physical cigar in you hands? In the end use your own judgment and smoke what pleases you."

?‍♂️

Where has accountability gone in this age? ?

[KnightsAnole]

So in conclusion, The point of this article is to say 'Your facts and proof are equally legitimate to my beliefs.'

I find this style of argument going on more and more in this brave, new, post factual world.

 

 

[dominattorney]

55 minutes ago, KnightsAnole said:

So in conclusion, The point of this article is to say 'Your facts and proof are equally legitimate to my beliefs.'

I find this style of argument going on more and more in this brave, new, post factual world.

 

 

Basically yes. It never ceases to amaze me  I read this guys article and also his comments and he absolutely seems to believe his point of logic full freight. 

[mt1]

Well, that's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

[JoeyBones777]

2 hours ago, KnightsAnole said:

So in conclusion, The point of this article is to say 'Your facts and proof are equally legitimate to my beliefs.'

I find this style of argument going on more and more in this brave, new, post factual world.

 

 

Whatever gives ya the feels is reality. Welcome to 2019!?‍♂️

[BuzzArd]

Wasted keystrokes....  

I want a credit for data used loading that page.  

[Nino]

Didn't waste my time reading the piece - that Tatuaje picture was enought to add my 2 cents...

[Bucky McSwensen]

 love the whole "oils are the furthest thing from chrystaline structures" as an all encompassing rational argument then a response of "well maybe not though".

I think it's fine if people think a light dusting of mold that can easily be brushed off means their cigars weren't dried out.  But it's not a good thing.  Yes it's better than a puffy colony on the foot but This isn't cheese, it's not enhancing flavors.

[Phillys]

Jenna the plant biologist for the win!!

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, juri said:

https://youtu.be/crpLoq8ZN3M?t=2431

dr joe belived in bloom/plume

Great.

A lot of people, believe a lot of things. But belief isn't fact. It's amazing to me that it has to be said. 

I was of the mind that plume was a thing, until the science overwhelmingly proved me wrong. It was all mold, its always been mold and probably always will be. I'm still very open to somebody proving me wrong, with facts, generated through the scientific process. But some guy with a Website/YouTube channel and an Opinion doesn't cut it for me.   

[El Presidente]

41 minutes ago, juri said:

but there is something different on those dr joe cigars and ive seen that before, where you cant wipe it off and it has almost a sandpaper effect, i

Tested similar. Grainy, doesn't wipe off (easily at least). Greg and I had high hopes as they looked granular. 

Came back as just a different type of mould. 

 

I live in hope and would love to find the grail. 

[Akela3rd]

Plume is the comforting lie that's easier to believe in than the cold hard truth of mould.

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

[dominattorney]

50 minutes ago, juri said:

its funny reading the comments pretty much everyone is calling him a moron lol, one post did bring up hard water witch is what i thought because it has a high mineral content and over time you get the same white build up that you see in sinks/showers 

This is currently my best bet for what "plume" could actually be if it is real. I too fell victim to the crystalized oils canard. I'm embarrassed to admit that because if you think about it for even a minute seriously it makes no sense. Upon reflecting on what it actually could be, I'm left with either sugar crystallization in the case of a flavored cigar or mineral buildup from the water vapor in the humidor. This seems u likely as well because if the water is only present in vapor form it should not contain any mineral deposits, but I am no scientist. 

[Sup3r6]

It's good to see the vast majority of the replies are slamming the article. It proves most people aren't fooled any more.

[Colt45]

I didn't read it as him slagging Rob's testing, but as his feeling those who don't believe in plume using it to support their position. The flip side is that it does seem he's willing to accept anecdotal vs scientific evidence as proof plume does exist. I'm not sure that helps lessen the confusion for the consumer as is his stated desire. I've always believed RA is trying to find a true example of plume rather than prove it does not exist.

Personally, I feel that any name calling / cross forum fighting to be a bit unseemly and of little value.

That aside, if plume is the oils crystallizing on the surface, why would that be considered a good thing? My thought is that I'd rather have any essential oils remain within the cigar.

[IanMcLean68]

Plume so far deserves no more credibility than ghosts or UFOs. A lot of half-baked evidence and absolutely zero definitive proof.

However, my bet is that if plume is discovered to be anything other than mould or bacteria, and is discovered to be crystalline, its likely to be crystallised sugars formed through fermentation, as starches and cellulose fibres in the plant break down into simpler sugars. It is very difficult to believe from a materials point of view that plume would ever be discovered to be oils, as the old fable believes. A micro-crystalline or amorphous powder residue might be insoluble mineral deposits.

My gut feeling though is that plume will only ever be found to be mould or bacteria. The quantities of sugars or minerals in the cigar makes it very difficult to believe this would ever surface and crystallise on the surface of a wrapper.

 

[lovethehaze]

1 hour ago, juri said:

its funny reading the comments pretty much everyone is calling him a moron lol, one post did bring up hard water witch is what i thought because it has a high mineral content and over time you get the same white build up that you see in sinks/showers 

It's funny you mention this b/c the only time I ever saw mold/plume was many many years ago when all I had was a small desktop humi and used to use tap water and a sponge to " bring it back" to life. This tap water def had something in it that created many issues one does not want... in the humi and on the cigars.

 

[Fugu]

Bear with me to be nitpicking - but just to get that straight for the sake of science and logical congruousness:

The FOH undertaking had proven the existence of mould in each and every sample. It hadn't fully disproven "plume" in all of them, where macroscopically indistinct. (whatever "plume" now may be - any non-organismic, dead, whitish/opaque, solid substance forming on the surface of a cigar)

It's in the specific analytical setup there. (I had expanded on it in said thread, for those interested)

Still and anyway, holding for what feels like 99.9% of cases: If it walks like a duck.....

[Fugu]

Ah, and as for the notion oils wouldn't crystallize. That is true, indeed.

But - they may polymerize and solidify in a hardening process, resulting in a solid amorphous structure, often over long periods of time. Basically, that very process is happening in various (so called hardening) oils with a high content in poly-unsaturated fatty acids. A process actually known to many of us. Practical examples, which at least artists, artisans, wood workers etc. will be familiar with: oil paint, linseed oil, tung oil and many other natural oils.

[prodigy]

Plume so far deserves no more credibility than ghosts or UFOs. A lot of half-baked evidence and absolutely zero definitive proof.
However, my bet is that if plume is discovered to be anything other than mould or bacteria, and is discovered to be crystalline, its likely to be crystallised sugars formed through fermentation, as starches and cellulose fibres in the plant break down into simpler sugars. It is very difficult to believe from a materials point of view that plume would ever be discovered to be oils, as the old fable believes. A micro-crystalline or amorphous powder residue might be insoluble mineral deposits.
My gut feeling though is that plume will only ever be found to be mould or bacteria. The quantities of sugars or minerals in the cigar makes it very difficult to believe this would ever surface and crystallise on the surface of a wrapper.
 

Hey man, UFOs are real. I saw one on YouTube.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Ash Bridges]

I joined a decent cigar club in Baltimore and left a few sticks in the locker for about 2 months. This is what a nice Partagas D4 looked like when I opened the door. The manager of the place tried to tell me it's plume. I told him to feel free to smoke it if he wanted, but I wouldn't recommend it. Haven't seen him in awhile come to think of it...

[El Presidente]

35 minutes ago, Ash Bridges said:

The manager of the place tried to tell me it's plume.

Going on the photo, the cedar of the locker is also sprouting plume .

Ideal conditions indeed 

[Fuzz]

I was in the plume exists club. Didn't look like mold, felt gritty with the sparkly look, only happened on a few cigars. Gotta be plume, right? Right up until Rob did the tests... nope, it is just another type of mold. Now in my head I believe it is all mold, but in my heart, I still hope plume exists somewhere... but you gotta prove it with evidence!

 

[medzikone]

I can't recall where but I've read that 'plume' occurs when conditions changes very fast. I.e. cigars is taken from humid environment to dry and vice versa.

Also, try to add salt to water. You should see that salt all over the place since it evaporate with water.

And I believe it's easy to distinguish whether is mold from 'plume' (which as many of you already said - is hard to achive)