has hollywood run out of ideas?

[Ken Gargett]

i see we have another thread about great old movies.

i know that so many have been re-done, but that is as deliberate re-makes of earlier films, which is fine if they can make them different or better. but when you have perhaps the biggest franchise of all - star wars - rip itself off and simply repeat the original for the revamp, despite denying doing so, you have to wonder. galaxies galore and they can't think of anything new? remaking an earlier film is one thing but simply repackaging a past film and pretending we have an all new flick is dishonest. 

watched 'jason bourne' last night. now, i was a huge fan of ludlam and the books (must say i was a bit shocked when they announced matt damon as bourne - i could not see it but i think he does a great job). thoroughly enjoyed the movies - well, the first three and not that dismal jeremy renner one.

and i thoroughly enjoyed the new one (well, newish). but spare me, i just felt like i had seen it all before. JB gets dragged in to some mess exposing the dodgy programs run by the govt. a high level spook behind it is all a bit dodgy. there is another highly trained assassin out to get him. he gets assistance from a woman on the inside - as much as i like alicia vikander, bit of a plot hole to have her suddenly swap to his side when there is almost no reason to do so before her and she is the ruthless up and coming cia prodigy. massive car chase - this time las vegas not moscow. and so on. 

sure, they did it all very well but why? a tarted up re-run. what is the point? 

[lipher]

oceans 8!

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[Ken Gargett]

Just now, lipher said:

oceans 8!

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have not seen it but i suspect you'd be spot on and it might just be a gender swapping rehash. if it was an all new plot, fair enough, although i do think that cate blachet is so overrated and so determined to hog every scene, i'd be unlikely to bother. yes, i know, i have been told it is un-australian for us not to fawn at her every utterance but i think it all so emperor's new clothes (take all the me-too stuff - only once a large number of her colleagues had spoken out did she jump on the bandwagon and start claiming herself a leader of this and that.)

and yes, i appear to have hijacked my own thread. 

[LordAnubis]

Green fields investment right? Why risk money on something completely new when the oldish rehashes will likely generate de-risked returns. People are going to watch them.

I saw the newer Star Wars and thought they were the same as the older ones.


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[hedgeybaby]

Yes

[lipher]

i love it!

have not seen it but i suspect you'd be spot on and it might just be a gender swapping rehash. if it was an all new plot, fair enough, although i do think that cate blachet is so overrated and so determined to hog every scene, i'd be unlikely to bother. yes, i know, i have been told it is un-australian for us not to fawn at her every utterance but i think it all so emperor's new clothes (take all the me-too stuff - only once a large number of her colleagues had spoken out did she jump on the bandwagon and start claiming herself a leader of this and that.)
and yes, i appear to have hijacked my own thread. 

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[fitzy]

When they remade Point Break I knew they were out of idea's. 

Now it's all about trying to milk as much money out of people they can. Well I don't know about Ken but I don't have teats. 

[luckme10]

Disney buying Star Wars and taking the conservative route in rebooting the series, well up until The Last PETA loving Feminist Jedi, would have been completely different of ol george was still at the helm. I heard he planned on making the new series about Micro Organisms. Amoeba with lightsabers? What's not to love!

[Ken Gargett]

52 minutes ago, luckme10 said:

Disney buying Star Wars and taking the conservative route in rebooting the series, well up until The Last PETA loving Feminist Jedi, would have been completely different of ol george was still at the helm. I heard he planned on making the new series about Micro Organisms. Amoeba with lightsabers? What's not to love!

i was at a tasting in helsinki with one of the heads of disney europe. he as genuinely stunned that anyone could think that they had just rehashed the first. and a little miffed. i was genuinely stunned that no one had raised this before. he was a terrific bloke but i suppose no one wanted to risk their jobs. 

as for george, wasn't he in charge of the second set of three? i wouldn't let him near a school concert video after those dismal duds. 

[gweilgi]

What is sad -- and a little frightening -- is that the audiences make this all too easy.  Original films do not get a chance if made abroad because they are "too foreign", because they do not have bankable stars, because their aesthetic and style does not fit the Hollywood ideal, and because audiences don't "do" sub-titles.  So they get re-made and almost invariably ruined in the process.  In the reverse, decades of unremitting Hollywood pressure have ensured that large portions of the global audience have adopted the same preferences as American cinema-goers, supported at every turn by Hollywood glitz, glamour and big-budget razzmatazz.  The result is a dreary sameyness, wherever you go.  

Yes, this is a business.  Yes, very large sums are at stake with every release.  Yes, it pays to recycle old recipes and to pander to pre-existing audiences (especially for franchises).  But why have the risk-takers largely vanished?  Even today, there will be the odd film that slips through the net, so to speak, that scores big box-office bucks on the back of inventive stories and good acting ... but that does not appear to be much of a lure anymore for the big studios.  So these days, if I want really good entertainment, I either read a book (hey, I'm old) or I head over to Netflix/Amazon/Stan where they have picked up the slack by giving me genuinely high-quality films and series.  

[Ken Gargett]

9 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

What is sad -- and a little frightening -- is that the audiences make this all too easy.  Original films do not get a chance if made abroad because they are "too foreign", because they do not have bankable stars, because their aesthetic and style does not fit the Hollywood ideal, and because audiences don't "do" sub-titles.  So they get re-made and almost invariably ruined in the process.  In the reverse, decades of unremitting Hollywood pressure have ensured that large portions of the global audience have adopted the same preferences as American cinema-goers, supported at every turn by Hollywood glitz, glamour and big-budget razzmatazz.  The result is a dreary sameyness, wherever you go.  

Yes, this is a business.  Yes, very large sums are at stake with every release.  Yes, it pays to recycle old recipes and to pander to pre-existing audiences (especially for franchises).  But why have the risk-takers largely vanished?  Even today, there will be the odd film that slips through the net, so to speak, that scores big box-office bucks on the back of inventive stories and good acting ... but that does not appear to be much of a lure anymore for the big studios.  So these days, if I want really good entertainment, I either read a book (hey, I'm old) or I head over to Netflix/Amazon/Stan where they have picked up the slack by giving me genuinely high-quality films and series.  

the ironic thing is that i am old enough to remember all the fuss about the first release of star wars and how much of a risk it was and how it did not fit the mould and how they were scared it would not work but went ahead anyway and blah blah blah - all the things that causes them to run a mile today. 

[cigcars]

38 minutes ago, gweilgi said:

What is sad -- and a little frightening -- is that the audiences make this all too easy.  Original films do not get a chance if made abroad because they are "too foreign", because they do not have bankable stars, because their aesthetic and style does not fit the Hollywood ideal, and because audiences don't "do" sub-titles.  So they get re-made and almost invariably ruined in the process.  In the reverse, decades of unremitting Hollywood pressure have ensured that large portions of the global audience have adopted the same preferences as American cinema-goers, supported at every turn by Hollywood glitz, glamour and big-budget razzmatazz.  The result is a dreary sameyness, wherever you go.  

Yes, this is a business.  Yes, very large sums are at stake with every release.  Yes, it pays to recycle old recipes and to pander to pre-existing audiences (especially for franchises).  But why have the risk-takers largely vanished?  Even today, there will be the odd film that slips through the net, so to speak, that scores big box-office bucks on the back of inventive stories and good acting ... but that does not appear to be much of a lure anymore for the big studios.  So these days, if I want really good entertainment, I either read a book (hey, I'm old) or I head over to Netflix/Amazon/Stan where they have picked up the slack by giving me genuinely high-quality films and series.  

        *Well one group of those odd films that slipped through the net are those Japanese horror films, i.e. "Ringu" and "Ju-On" that other countries immediately remade due to their originality and 'cant-take-your-eyes-away' gripping fright & excitement. And there was also "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" from Sweden that was remade with Daniel Craig. If anyone needs or cares to do a tad bit of looking, there's Finland's "Rare Exports", a truly more original (and IMHO, MUCH better film than "Krampus") Santa Clause movie...only this old guy ain't jolly or nice - at all. Yes, they're there and can be found without too much digging and are good to great in their own right. 

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, cigcars said:

        *Well one group of those odd films that slipped through the net are those Japanese horror films, i.e. "Ringu" and "Ju-On" that other countries immediately remade due to their originality and 'cant-take-your-eyes-away' gripping fright & excitement. And there was also "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" from Sweden that was remade with Daniel Craig. If anyone needs or cares to do a tad bit of looking, there's Finland's "Rare Exports", a truly more original (and IMHO, MUCH better film than "Krampus") Santa Clause movie...only this old guy ain't jolly or nice - at all. Yes, they're there and can be found without too much digging. 

pretty certain that there is a thread with plenty of these. amazing what hollywood has grabbed. homeland a fine example. had no idea that the new show, the good doctor, originally korean (not that i have watched either). and that film 'true lies' with arnie (good fun, i thought) was from a small french film. many examples. 

[Fuzz AI]

3 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

Green fields investment right? Why risk money on something completely new when the oldish rehashes will likely generate de-risked returns. People are going to watch them.

I saw the newer Star Wars and thought they were the same as the older ones.


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The Force Awakens is just a gender swapped remake of A New Hope. Haven't seen The Last Jedi yet.

You know the old trope, "An infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite amount of time, will eventually re-produce the entire works of William Shakespeare". Well, there are a lot of writers in Hollywood...

[MIKA27]

49 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

The Force Awakens is just a gender swapped remake of A New Hope. Haven't seen The Last Jedi yet.

You know the old trope, "An infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite amount of time, will eventually re-produce the entire works of William Shakespeare". Well, there are a lot of writers in Hollywood...

Force awaken was pretty good IMO, if you haven't watched Last Jedi then save yourself and dont! Utter Blasphemy.

Saying this, I personally loved Rogue One, was well written and cast.

SOLO (Not the thirst quencher) was SHITE!

[Ken Gargett]

7 minutes ago, MIKA27 said:

Force awaken was pretty good IMO, if you haven't watched Last Jedi then save yourself and dont! Utter Blasphemy.

Saying this, I personally loved Rogue One, was well written and cast.

SOLO (Not the thirst quencher) was SHITE!

i'm the same as fuzz. force awakens a gender swapped remake. i also have not seen the last jedi but everything i had heard suggested it was supposed to be the better of the two. if not, that is seriously disappointing. 

[MIKA27]

6 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

i'm the same as fuzz. force awakens a gender swapped remake. i also have not seen the last jedi but everything i had heard suggested it was supposed to be the better of the two. if not, that is seriously disappointing. 

I see your point but definitely Last Jedi was NOT better IMHO, it is a mess. 

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, MIKA27 said:

I see your point but definitely Last Jedi was NOT better IMHO, it is a mess. 

i was hoping for different. sad.

so that means there have still only been two worthwhile (admittedly fabulous) flicks in the entire franchise and the rest are rubbish. 

[MoeFOH]

I think they ran out of ideas a long time ago, Ken. Remakes are generally an abomination. I look to Independent and Europe/UK for originality. Irish Film Board in particular. The Lobster. McDonagh Bros movies, too. Stuff like The Guard and Calvary. And although it was a US release, Martin McDonagh did Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri. 

[gweilgi]

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

The Force Awakens is just a gender swapped remake of A New Hope. Haven't seen The Last Jedi yet.

I've seen it twice, on flights to and from Europe.  Can't remember a thing about either occasion.  This may or may not be a good thing...

 

2 hours ago, Fuzz said:

You know the old trope, "An infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of typewriters for an infinite amount of time, will eventually re-produce the entire works of William Shakespeare". Well, there are a lot of writers in Hollywood...

For anyone interested, there is a most excellent book:  "The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories", by Christopher Booker.  His premise is that there are really only seven storylines, endlessly re-written and combined:

Overcoming the Monster

Rags to Riches

The Quest

Voyage and Return

Comedy

Tragedy

Rebirth

These are matched by seven themes:   Love, Money, Power, Revenge, Survival, Glory and Self-awareness.

Mix and match these, and we have every script ever filmed and every novel ever written....

[luckme10]

 

[bpm32]

I don’t think there’s any shortage of creativity—it’s just that movies are such huge endeavors with massive outlays of money from investors that they play it safe. Not that anyone could ever predict these things. Filmmakers constantly say that they have no idea what’ll be successful until they show the movies to test audiences. I suppose that’s when they decide whether they’ll spend $100 million on marketing or just take the tax write-off and throw the thing up on Netflix.

 

[joeypots]

Design, art, movie making, whatever you want to call it, by committee leads to mediocrity. Big movies are franchise products now, written and made by test audience formulae. There is an argument that the best writing is being done for TV rather than stage or the big screen. The writers have more control of their work and the serial TV programs offer some job security. Stage is a labor of love, pretty hard to get paid to do something new unless it's very, very special. It's a brutal business.

[Ken Gargett]

6 hours ago, joeypots said:

Design, art, movie making, whatever you want to call it, by committee leads to mediocrity. Big movies are franchise products now, written and made by test audience formulae. There is an argument that the best writing is being done for TV rather than stage or the big screen. The writers have more control of their work and the serial TV programs offer some job security. Stage is a labor of love, pretty hard to get paid to do something new unless it's very, very special. It's a brutal business.

some of the stuff on tv now, and also going back over nearly 20 years with shows like west wing and 24 and more, is brilliant. well ahead of the majority of flicks. 

[Fuzz AI]

It's not exactly fair to compare movies to television. TV series have the benefit of time to flesh out the backstory and develop the plot. Movies have only 2 hrs give you the backstory, the plot and the conclusion.