What country/culture would you of liked to have been born into, if not your own

[El Hoze]

9 hours ago, 99call said:

I always feel like i'm missing the trick with Italian food, I've always been largely unimpressed. Last year, precisely for this reason me and the missus, spent a fortnight in Bologna, and the surrounding regions, which is supposed to have the best food in Italy. 

In doing quite a bit of research, and hitting all the referenced highlights we left with much the same opinion. I think Italy has some wonderful raw materials when it comes to food, but when it comes to gastronomy or actual cooking, it didn't come anywhere close (for me) to Spanish, French, cuisine etc etc. 

I do like it very much for it's simplicity, as often it's just very good produce put of a plate, but I keep on hearing people say Italian food, is the best in the world, and i'm still yet to see any evidence of it. 

I in many ways probably agree with you actually. A few thing I'd say.

1. Going solely by food, I wouldn't give Italy the clear nod by any means over France, or even Greece, and certainly not Spain. Spain actually wins in my book. But I have had many many memorable meals in Italy ranging from steak (and I'm an American who swears by US beef), to pasta, seafood dishes, crudo type of stuff. Some of which are no doubt heightened by the locale. To the American palate most Italian food will be virtually unsalted. Salt it up a little if you need to.

2. I don't know of anywhere in Italy where the food is universally good and you can wander into a place off the street and be assured of having a great meal. I'd say that about places like the Basque country in Spain but not even the Emilia Romagna area Parma/Bologna/Modena (where we have spent a lot of time as I happen to have a car buying issue in addition to a cigar buying issue). We spent a few days recently wandering through San Sebastian and Logrona and Burgos (Basque area) recently and the food quite literally everywhere is very very good, and the places we sought out in many cases were mindblowing (and not just high end stuff, the best thing we ate all trip was a blood sausage in a pintxo bar in San Sebastian that was just incredible, and this dish isn't on any food tour menus).

3. Italian food is overrated I'd argue, certainly by Americans. I am always amused walking through a town like Florence and watching the American tourists eating mass-produced gelato and ooh'ing and aahing. I am sorry but most of that stuff is no better than what I buy in my supermarket in Miami. Now, there is a gelato place in Parma called Cremeria Emilia that we randomly wandered into one day on a bike ride that was so good I got the owners email and told them if they ever wanted to open a store in the US and needed investors I'd be happy to sign up! They laughingly told me they weren't interested. Too difficult to reproduce even in Rome, much less the US. So a little bit of time, luck, and research will yield some real winners. In the meantime, the other stuff there more than makes up for it.

 

 

[Fuzz]

2 minutes ago, El Hoze said:

 I'm an American who swears by US beef

Then you haven't had good beef yet!

[99call]

4 minutes ago, El Hoze said:

I in many ways probably agree with you actually. A few thing I'd say.

1. Going solely by food, I wouldn't give Italy the clear nod by any means over France, or even Greece, and certainly not Spain. Spain actually wins in my book. But I have had many many memorable meals in Italy ranging from steak (and I'm an American who swears by US beef), to pasta, seafood dishes, crudo type of stuff. Some of which are no doubt heightened by the locale. To the American palate most Italian food will be virtually unsalted. Salt it up a little if you need to.

2. I don't know of anywhere in Italy where the food is universally good and you can wander into a place off the street and be assured of having a great meal. I'd say that about places like the Basque country in Spain but not even the Emilia Romagna area Parma/Bologna/Modena (where we have spent a lot of time as I happen to have a car buying issue in addition to a cigar buying issue). We spent a few days recently wandering through San Sebastian and Logrona and Burgos (Basque area) recently and the food quite literally everywhere is very very good, and the places we sought out in many cases were mindblowing (and not just high end stuff, the best thing we ate all trip was a blood sausage in a pintxo bar in San Sebastian that was just incredible, and this dish isn't on any food tour menus).

3. Italian food is overrated I'd argue, certainly by Americans. I am always amused walking through a town like Florence and watching the American tourists eating mass-produced gelato and ooh'ing and aahing. I am sorry but most of that stuff is no better than what I buy in my supermarket in Miami. Now, there is a gelato place in Parma called Cremeria Emilia that we randomly wandered into one day on a bike ride that was so good I got the owners email and told them if they ever wanted to open a store in the US and needed investors I'd be happy to sign up! They laughingly told me they weren't interested. Too difficult to reproduce even in Rome, much less the US. So a little bit of time, luck, and research will yield some real winners. In the meantime, the other stuff there more than makes up for it.

 

 

I guess my point really revolved around the 'cooking' of good ingredients. A good proportion of Europe has fantastic raw products, chesses, veg, fruit, hams etc etc. Often when I go to Italy, they simple place those raw products on a plate, whereas it feels like other cuisines A, they have just as good raw products, but B, have a very complex gastronomy whereby they can elevate those building blocks into something fantastic, that takes a huge amount of skill and knowledge to replicate. 

On the other side of the coin, I have had food experiences, where you can tell someone has ruined good ingredients, by messing with them too much.

[99call]

9 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Then you haven't had good beef yet!

When eating beef in Japan, I made some sort of involuntary noise of pleasure, that I am glad nobody seemed to hear.  

Japanese beef, makes high grade Scottish Aberdeen Angus taste like sandals .  Also anything that i've had outside of Japan called Waygu, Kobe etc etc has been BS

[El Hoze]

3 minutes ago, 99call said:

I guess my point really revolved around the 'cooking' of good ingredients. A good proportion of Europe has fantastic raw products, chesses, veg, fruit, hams etc etc. Often when I go to Italy, they simple place those raw products on a plate, whereas it feels like other cuisines A, they have just as good raw products, but B, have a very complex gastronomy whereby they can elevate those building blocks into something fantastic, that takes a huge amount of skill and knowledge to replicate. 

On the other side of the coin, I have had food experiences, where you can tell someone has ruined good ingredients, by messing with them too much.

Definitely agree with that! I fancy myself a pretty good cook, we have a sous vide machine, all that stuff, and we actually like taking cooking classes in Italy because they're fairly simple. In Spain I'd be way out of my league and level of attention span/detail. I make a tomato bruschetta at home that people can't believe. Pretty simple once you know a few tricks. On the other hand, we had a few dishes in Spain (including the blood sausage and a tomato that had been injected with salt water, lightly cooked, peeled, and served almost frozen). She looked at me and said "we need to try this at home" and I laughed and said "we'll stick to bruschetta"!

[El Hoze]

20 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Then you haven't had good beef yet!

 

6 minutes ago, 99call said:

When eating beef in Japan, I made some sort of involuntary noise of pleasure, that I am glad nobody seemed to hear.  

Japanese beef, makes high grade Scottish Aberdeen Angus taste like sandals .  Also anything that i've had outside of Japan called Waygu, Kobe etc etc has been BS

Ha, yes! Japanese beef (like many Japanese products) is in another category. I have had comparable type of beef here in the US at very high end sushi restaurants where it's typically served nigiri-style on a bed of rice like sushi, and torched. It's astronomically expensive. I also at dinner at a steakhouse in Tokyo one time that I had to do the Yen/USD conversion about 5X because I thought I must have misplaced the decimal point somehow. A bit apples to oranges versus the beef I eat with salad and some potatoes, but certainly Japanese beef is good. And I'd argue the American view/version of beef is somewhat biased/skewed which was my real point! Plenty of good beef other places.

[99call]

41 minutes ago, El Hoze said:

 

Ha, yes! Japanese beef (like many Japanese products) is in another category. I have had comparable type of beef here in the US at very high end sushi restaurants where it's typically served nigiri-style on a bed of rice like sushi, and torched. It's astronomically expensive. I also at dinner at a steakhouse in Tokyo one time that I had to do the Yen/USD conversion about 5X because I thought I must have misplaced the decimal point somehow. A bit apples to oranges versus the beef I eat with salad and some potatoes, but certainly Japanese beef is good. And I'd argue the American view/version of beef is somewhat biased/skewed which was my real point! Plenty of good beef other places.

Somewhere there is an Argentinian boiling with rage at us all. I'm yet to have American or Argentinian beef, so I am thoroughly unqualified to know who gets the trophy with the golden horns

[Akela3rd]

Same can be said for vegans.... If someone is a Vegan, they will tell you.

Or a pilot...

Thunder & Lightening '75 - '15

[Lotusguy]

I'm sorry but "would of liked"? My English teacher is rotating in her grave.

[Ken Gargett]

13 hours ago, El Hoze said:

I in many ways probably agree with you actually. A few thing I'd say.

1. Going solely by food, I wouldn't give Italy the clear nod by any means over France, or even Greece, and certainly not Spain. Spain actually wins in my book. But I have had many many memorable meals in Italy ranging from steak (and I'm an American who swears by US beef), to pasta, seafood dishes, crudo type of stuff. Some of which are no doubt heightened by the locale. To the American palate most Italian food will be virtually unsalted. Salt it up a little if you need to.

2. I don't know of anywhere in Italy where the food is universally good and you can wander into a place off the street and be assured of having a great meal. I'd say that about places like the Basque country in Spain but not even the Emilia Romagna area Parma/Bologna/Modena (where we have spent a lot of time as I happen to have a car buying issue in addition to a cigar buying issue). We spent a few days recently wandering through San Sebastian and Logrona and Burgos (Basque area) recently and the food quite literally everywhere is very very good, and the places we sought out in many cases were mindblowing (and not just high end stuff, the best thing we ate all trip was a blood sausage in a pintxo bar in San Sebastian that was just incredible, and this dish isn't on any food tour menus).

3. Italian food is overrated I'd argue, certainly by Americans. I am always amused walking through a town like Florence and watching the American tourists eating mass-produced gelato and ooh'ing and aahing. I am sorry but most of that stuff is no better than what I buy in my supermarket in Miami. Now, there is a gelato place in Parma called Cremeria Emilia that we randomly wandered into one day on a bike ride that was so good I got the owners email and told them if they ever wanted to open a store in the US and needed investors I'd be happy to sign up! They laughingly told me they weren't interested. Too difficult to reproduce even in Rome, much less the US. So a little bit of time, luck, and research will yield some real winners. In the meantime, the other stuff there more than makes up for it.

 

 

with no disrespect to any other cuisine, spanish food wins hands down for me.

[El Hoze]

18 hours ago, 99call said:

Somewhere there is an Argentinian boiling with rage at us all. I'm yet to have American or Argentinian beef, so I am thoroughly unqualified to know who gets the trophy with the golden horns

Ah, Argentina! I'll never forget how disappointed I was on my first trip to Argentina. Now, they have fantastic food in Argentina, some of which is beef-driven...and it is a country with more going for it than most. Love Argentina. But the steaks there (like a plain old steak you'd order medium rare and cut w a knife) I find subpar. Some of it they set themselves up for, when you go into a restaurant and they have pictures of their prized cows on the wall my expectations go up! And alot of it has to do w grass feeding, which is healthier, but I don't eat steak for health reasons. It's a flavor thing. 

 

I have a very good Argentine friend who played soccer (as we call it) down there actually for the Boca Juniors club for a few, and I assume has had his fair share of good lomos. I've even gotten him to admit that beef in Argentina is as much about tradition than anything. Whenever I have him over for dinner we cook steak, a little bit as a sign of respect and a little bit me wanting to show him what a good steak is! 

[99call]

2 minutes ago, El Hoze said:

Ah, Argentina! 

This is the Argentinian beef I'd like to get stuck into

[El Hoze]

3 hours ago, 99call said:

This is the Argentinian beef I'd like to get stuck into

That appears to be potentially Garzon or one of the Francis Mallman places. KIller! Not a typical steak joint! 

[topdiesel]

This is not a tough choice for me.  Much of my family comes from the island of pico in the azores.  I am a slow paced type of guy and enjoy wine and fresh seafood.  If I had to say goodbye to the ole USA (head exploding), that would be my choice.  runners up would be:

Canada-they love to travel and are some of the friendliest folks I have met

Any country along the Alps-Such beauty 

[ayepatz]

I’m Scottish. We’ve got great scenery, great beef, and, of course, whisky. Oh, and haggis. Deep-fried. In batter. And this is good.

Unfortunately, our weather sucks, so I’d go with anywhere sunny.

[MIKA27]

On 13/12/2017 at 1:32 AM, Fuzz said:

Then you haven't had good beef yet!

 

On 13/12/2017 at 1:57 AM, El Hoze said:

 

Ha, yes! Japanese beef (like many Japanese products) is in another category. I have had comparable type of beef here in the US at very high end sushi restaurants where it's typically served nigiri-style on a bed of rice like sushi, and torched. It's astronomically expensive. I also at dinner at a steakhouse in Tokyo one time that I had to do the Yen/USD conversion about 5X because I thought I must have misplaced the decimal point somehow. A bit apples to oranges versus the beef I eat with salad and some potatoes, but certainly Japanese beef is good. And I'd argue the American view/version of beef is somewhat biased/skewed which was my real point! Plenty of good beef other places.

...yeah..... I think @Fuzz was referring to Aussie beef guys....  

[Frozen North]

Italy 

[stigmata]

For me Greece, Spain or Russia
Having spent time in Russia is an awesome experience
Greece or Spain win overall because of the weather

[gweilgi]

I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I hate the question -- it's unanswerable.  I am a Third Culture Kid, having grown up in Europe and Britain, and now residing in God's Own (the clearly superior part, of course -- Sydney).  I loved living in all those places, and they all have their advantages and drawbacks.  

So if I had to choose, I'd go for Switzerland.  As a country, it *works*: the trains are as punctual as in Japan, infrastructure and services are much more efficient than in Germany, they have a good food and wine culture, the country is as tidy as Japan or Korea, their national setup means that the country also has Italian flair and French savoir-vivre in its identity, flight connections to the rest of the world are excellent, and the rest of Europe is no more than a couple of hours' drive away.  Plus, their cigar taxes are quite bearable.

[OB1]

nice topic... who would have thought it was about food.

 

[ErikB]

I want to live in the first minute of Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys


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[99call]

8 hours ago, gweilgi said:

I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I hate the question -- it's unanswerable.  I am a Third Culture Kid, having grown up in Europe and Britain, and now residing in God's Own (the clearly superior part, of course -- Sydney).  I loved living in all those places, and they all have their advantages and drawbacks.  

So if I had to choose, I'd go for Switzerland.  As a country, it *works*: the trains are as punctual as in Japan, infrastructure and services are much more efficient than in Germany, they have a good food and wine culture, the country is as tidy as Japan or Korea, their national setup means that the country also has Italian flair and French savoir-vivre in its identity, flight connections to the rest of the world are excellent, and the rest of Europe is no more than a couple of hours' drive away.  Plus, their cigar taxes are quite bearable.

Ha, despite hating the question, you did a very good job. Hats off

[fastkiller13]

I may be crazy, well lets not start this with BS I am crazy. So I have some odd ideas sometimes and this question got me thinking. I have traveled pretty extensively, Ive been to every continent except Australia and my job at the time generally took me to the worst parts of wherever I went.

So coming from America I initially thought these people should all be miserable and hate life and everyone, some did. West Africa though was different, most of the people had nothing literally, no running water, no toilets, diseases and violence was common place. Polio was still ravaging the population, yes Polio and it's a horrible disease.

But all those people with nothing were happy, happier then I ever was. That's because they did have something, and it was foreign to me. What they had was community, family, strong bonds, and everyone had to work at something all day. Maybe it's because I'm from the NYC area, maybe its just my personality, but I never felt that and I very much enjoyed it, so much so I stayed for 1.5 years. A feeling of belonging and knowing theres a village behind you. So if I could do it different I'd be born in Ghana.

[99call]

On 12/17/2017 at 8:05 PM, ErikB said:

I want to live in the first minute of Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys


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I went to like this post, and realised I'd already done it months ago.  'double like; needs to be an option!

[JR Kipling]

A place with a mañana attitude and a poor, indifferent, and inefficient government bureaucracy. A place without enough natural resources to be attractive to outsiders, but sufficient to self sustain the local population. A place with absolutely no strategic value, including its location as a point of departure for outsiders military forces. - This place would likely be some small remote island in the South Pacific. If I knew it’s name & you recognized it, that would be the wrong place.

 

 

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