When a cigar won't stay lit?

[El Presidente]

Tunneling and canoeing are well enough understood problems that you can encounter in the cigar world. People have different theories for the reasons why each occur but one rule doesn't suit all occurrences. It is not always about fireproof wrappers and/or humidity levels. 

The one that blows me away is the cigar that shows no signs of tunneling or canoeing but at one point in the burn ........just runs dead. 

By running dead I mean that it won't stay lit (wrapper or filler).  30 seconds to a minute of burn....out.......light and 30 seconds to a minute of burn....out....... Repeat until you get tired and pitch the cigar. 

It can't be completely about blending. I have rolled seco puro (no volado) before with no issues. 

Humidity/moisture?.....doubt it. this would be a 1 in 100 occurrence from the same desktop. 

Run your theories up the flag pole!  

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

This is something that has confounded me for many years, and I have no answers. I have a couple of hypotheses though. Assuming ideal storage conditions of course and the cigar is thoroughly rested in them for 30+ days.

I speculate that the new strains are inherently less combustible. I smoked a lot of CCs prior to 2000 and I almost never had the kind of burn issues that are so prevalent today. My hypothesis is that binders are the main issue. When I have a cigar burning poorly I have looked intently at what it's doing, and I also have seen what appears to be a visually apparent separation between the binder and the wrapper frequently. I don't know if this is caused by a poorly burning binder failing to transfer the burn to the wrapper or a poorly constructed cigar, but many times it appears that the binder is what's not burning well.

That being said, I have had wrappers that simply will not burn, and not just a cigar like the 07 Hoyo Regalos. The Edmundo Dantes Belicoso I sampled a few months ago had a wrapper that would not burn if you held an oxyacetylene torch to it, although I also noticed a huge gap between the binder and the wrapper on that one also.

Again, all I know is that when I first started smoking CCs this poor burning was never as much of an issue as it is today. I always marveled at how many CCs in a box burned razor-sharp in the 90s. 

Again, that's all just my speculation from experience. Interested in what others have to say.

[OZCUBAN]

I had issues yesterday but more than likely the force ten gales I was in ?Wind and cigars not the best of friends 

[CanuckSARTech]

Too many variables, methinks.

Could be any one (or a combination) of the following (aside from that which you already mentioned):

• windy conditions
• too long/hard in the draw
• not drawing frequently enough
• exhale puffing on the cigar too hard / too much
• fireproof (too dense) fillers or binder (it's not always just the wrappers that are fireproof!)

I too have had just a weird "dead spot" in the cigar, where a cornucopia of the size/format/blend/tight-packing/smoking conditions/etc. just all come together in a perfect storm to lead to a spot in the cigar that you can't burn-and-puff your way through.

[havanaclub]

This happened to me with a RA club allones last night. Wrapper was damn fire proof. Haven't had any issues with this cigar in the past.


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[PigFish]

My Fundie did that to me last night. Conclusion: I was talking too much and smoking too little!

-Piggy

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, CanuckSARTech said:

I too have had just a weird "dead spot" in the cigar, where a cornucopia of the size/format/blend/tight-packing/smoking conditions/etc. just all come together in a perfect storm to lead to a spot in the cigar that you can't burn-and-puff your way through.

... that would could be related to the empty 12 pack next to you. -Piggy

[busdriver]

I notice a lot of my burn issues come from a gap between the wrapper and binder, the same as @NSXCIGAR stated. The occasional cigar that wont stay lit is always in the second half of the cigar for me.  I usually blame my smoking speed leading to tar or humidity build up, but it happens rarely so it could be the cigar.  Interested in hearing other theories.

[NSXCIGAR]

I also think it's worth mentioning that prior to around 2000 I had experienced CCs simply staying lit or not going out for much longer than they do on average today. I could set a cigar down and return to it 5, 6, 7 minutes later and it would roar right back to life with only a few puffs. Just another indicator that leads me to hypothesize that the strains post-2000 are inherently less combustible. Again, storage conditions being optimal.

Perhaps others who have experience smoking prior to 2000 can corroborate this phenomenon.

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, OZCUBAN said:

I had issues yesterday but more than likely the force ten gales I was in ?Wind and cigars not the best of friends 

I have heard that you guys are having a tough time weather wise  

[Diabolicalpherpher]

Its most likely due to the nutrients contained within the tobacco leaf.  There are quite a number of studies looking at burn characteristics of tobacco leaf with respect to the ratio of essential nutrients of the plant. 

Here is a study in which they looked at the ratio of potassium to chlorine...

https://www.coresta.org/abstracts/study-potassium-chlorine-ratio-effect-combustibility-tobacco-leaf-5564.html

Varying ratios of K to Cl had affected the combustibility of the leaf.

In reality this could happen if application of nutrients/fertilizer were uneven creating hot spots; perhaps the veguero accidentally spilled excess fertilizer, didn't till the soil effectively to mix the nutrients, or maybe the plants grown in an area where the run off of the field pools, creating an area with excess of one nutrient more than others.  Whatever the reason, the tobacco plant grew just fine but the the leaf from those areas will not have the same nutrient ratio as the typical leaf and unfortunately for the end smoker, you get a stick that just doesn't burn.

Or it's just voodoo magic

[OZCUBAN]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

I have heard that you guys are having a tough time weather wise  

Yes mate we've definitely had a winter this year

plenty of rain which is good we always seem never to get enough 

Plenty of cold fronts of late.it will be stinking hot before to long ?

[Toast & Taste]

I blame the Russians.

I think that NSXCIGAR is on point, or at least, my thinking is aligned with his. A bad binder/wrapper job is a  construction issue, and a poorly constructed stick will not smoke well, including how it burns.

And yes, CC's used to seldom have burn issues back in the day.

And chocolate bars were bigger.

And beer tasted better.

And I'm getting older...

Big A

[David88]

I would normally put it down to possibly too much oil in the filler/an issue during fermentation. Just a bad roll shouldn't (according to my made up logic in the last week minutes) in a cigar that won't stay lit and neither should a wrong blend. The nutrient content of the leaves sounds like it could be a possibility too. 

[vladdraq]

well in my old country is well known: if your cigarette won't stay  lit your girlfriend is cheating on you. 

Sorry for the bad news.

[Hocky27]

Hmm interesting topic. I thought maybe it was just due to tight draw. Interesting to see that even he most experienced of smokers still debate it. 

[CanuckSARTech]

10 hours ago, PigFish said:

... that would could be related to the empty 12 pack next to you. -Piggy

NAh.  

26-er of HC Anejo 7 Anos. 

 

 

[CanuckSARTech]

9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I also think it's worth mentioning that prior to around 2000 I had experienced CCs simply staying lit or not going out for much longer than they do on average today. I could set a cigar down and return to it 5, 6, 7 minutes later and it would roar right back to life with only a few puffs. Just another indicator that leads me to hypothesize that the strains post-2000 are inherently less combustible. Again, storage conditions being optimal.

Perhaps others who have experience smoking prior to 2000 can corroborate this phenomenon.

 

6 hours ago, Diabolicalpherpher said:

Its most likely due to the nutrients contained within the tobacco leaf.  There are quite a number of studies looking at burn characteristics of tobacco leaf with respect to the ratio of essential nutrients of the plant. 

Here is a study in which they looked at the ratio of potassium to chlorine...

https://www.coresta.org/abstracts/study-potassium-chlorine-ratio-effect-combustibility-tobacco-leaf-5564.html

Varying ratios of K to Cl had affected the combustibility of the leaf.

In reality this could happen if application of nutrients/fertilizer were uneven creating hot spots; perhaps the veguero accidentally spilled excess fertilizer, didn't till the soil effectively to mix the nutrients, or maybe the plants grown in an area where the run off of the field pools, creating an area with excess of one nutrient more than others.  Whatever the reason, the tobacco plant grew just fine but the the leaf from those areas will not have the same nutrient ratio as the typical leaf and unfortunately for the end smoker, you get a stick that just doesn't burn.

Or it's just voodoo magic

 

I think these combined are a GREAT aspect to point out.  Well said.

We've definitely all appreciated the fact that the newer strains of tobacco, especially since the 2008 box codes onwards, have simply aged / matured / become ready-to-smoke much earlier to the pre-2000's strains.  So, is that one possible negative side effect?  More variability in the tobacco leaves' stored nutrients thus affecting the burn perhaps?  Does the less-maturing time of the current tobaccos lead to this?

Great thinking / observation, NSX.

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, CanuckSARTech said:

I think these combined are a GREAT aspect to point out.  Well said.

We've definitely all appreciated the fact that the newer strains of tobacco, especially since the 2008 box codes onwards, have simply aged / matured / become ready-to-smoke much earlier to the pre-2000's strains.  So, is that one possible negative side effect?  More variability in the tobacco leaves' stored nutrients thus affecting the burn perhaps?  Does the less-maturing time of the current tobaccos lead to this?

Great thinking / observation, NSX.

Well, something has definitely changed. It could be the strains themselves, it could be fertilizing techniques. It could even be processing or curing techniques--all of which have been modified since the late 90s. CCs simply do not have the tannic or "green" properties when young that many models did pre-2000. CCs were never as "smooth" as they are after only a few years or less prior to 2000. I never really preferred "smooth" CCs, so it never was something that bothered me pre-2000. Certain flavors found in pre-2000 CCs like the heavy, rich earthiness of Bolivar and Partagas and the ripe tropical fruit found in RyJ are all but gone. The "creaminess" of recent HdM and PSD4 never existed as far as I can tell prior to the mid-2000s. 

I'm not sure the CC combustibility issue will ever be isolated under Tabacuba. I think only after competition and intense micro-experimentation by vegueros will any one of the factors be isolated. HSA clearly has enough trouble just trying to get the strains and blends passable these days. They simply hand down edicts to the vegueros dictating the methods they must employ and control the fertilizer rations. Until the individual vegueros can experiment on their own, on their land, progress is going to be difficult. Remember, the Cuban governent inherited the old Criollo and Corojo from pre-Rev days and were blessed with long periods of great weather and absence of plant disease for much of the late 20th century. When problems presented themselves in the early 90s along with skyrocketing demand, the failure of Tabacuba and the inevitable ineptitude of state-run monopolies to adapt and overcome became apparent.

[earthson]

Funny - I've had this problem with 3 of the 4 La Escepcion Don Jose I've had. I really paid attention this last time and concluded it was a thick, somewhat fireproof wrapper. Utter shame because the tobacco seemed top notch and these weren't cheap, but I tossed it and grabbed a RASS - life is too short to battle a cigar.

This is also why I have just about sworn off special editions with hefty price tags - you're still getting the same ole quality, regardless of marca, vitola or price premium.

[Smokin Joe]

I've had this with Monte 4s I got duty free. They feel tightly packed and seem to go out when ever I stop paying attention.

Dry boxing didn't help. I am considering skewering the next on to see if it helps.

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[dominattorney]

To the gap between the wrapper and binder crowd, I will say that I agree that most of the time this is the cause. However, I had a well constructed 2003 cardboard hoyo des dieux do this to me yesterday. I bought the box aged from an online source and they were all very dry. I think we often times underestimate the time it will take for a stick to acclimate to our humidor. I find that 6 months is the minimum to bring dry sticks up to sniff with the rest of my stock. Into the back go the remaining 24. 

[CrankYanker]

The only time I've not had a cigar stay lit is when I put it down and forgot to puff it.  I've had some really cheapos that wouldn't light but those were non-Habanos.  The Habanos that I have smoked have all had good luck with lighting and staying lit as long as you're taking care of it.

[clutch5150]

BEHIKE 2nds....

[CooGAR]

Seems to happen to me mostly at the last 1/3 of a cigar....around the cigar shop, we always said it was a tar build up.

Great trick though (and most may already know it....). 

Next time you are down to your last half or third of a cigar and it won't stay lit, light the end of the cigar like you normally do.  When the cigar is lit again and you got a bit of a flame on the foot, take a good breath and BLOW a nice, easy, long stream of air back through the cigar WHILE KEEPING THE LIGHTER LIT at the other end.  When you got what looks like a blow torch coming out of the foot, stop blowing and let the cigar rest for a few seconds.  It will smoke like it's brand new and should stop going out.