How Long Is Too Long - Aging

[brschoppe]

In the past few weeks I have seen a few boxes that Rob has put up on the site from his trip to Hong Kong.  Some of these were from 2009, the year my son was born.  Not knowing anything about acquiring Cuban cigars nor anything about aging back then, I didn't think to pick up a box from that year.  I have always had this vision of sitting back with my son on a camping trip in 2027 or 2030 when my son is 18 or 21 and enjoying a cigar from his birth year with him.  My question is would that cigar have aged past it prime our would it still have a good taste?  I was just wondering if was worth while seeking out and making the investment at this point?  Maybe my better bet is seeking out the 12 year old bottle of scotch in 2021 or 18 year old bottle in 2027 and enjoy it with whatever cigars are around at that time?

[NSXCIGAR]

Every cigar has a peak I suppose. Figuring out what that is proves difficult many times. 

I personally believe modern CCs peak at about 5-10 years VERY generally speaking. That being said, 18 years won't kill a cigar. It may not be at it's absolute peak anymore, but it will be fine, and if kept properly, should still be good if it was good ROTT. I would sell most boxes I was invested in within that 5-10 year window, but for a child's birth year, go for it.

As for whisky, once the whisky is bottled the "aging process" ceases. A 12-year-old whisky will still be a 12-year-old whisky in 100 years. So buying a whisky with the birth year of a child makes sense as it should taste the same in 18 years as it does now. Cigars change just lying around. Whisky shouldn't.

[garbandz]

 

'Maybe my better bet is seeking out the 12 year old bottle of scotch in 2021 or 18 year old bottle in 2027 '

you could take a vacation to Zurich now for what that bottle will cost in 2027.................

 

2009 boxes are still around and not too steep,look around..............

OR,,,,,,,,,,get a box of the Pacific Regionals.

They seem to have the legs to be something special in that time frame.

[Colt45]

My own personal perspective..... unless things have changed, box date is when the cigars were placed in the box, not when rolled - which probably happened many months prior. I'd rather smoke a good cigar regardless of the stamp to celebrate an occasion. Just me.

[MaxG]

1 hour ago, Colt45 said:

My own personal perspective..... unless things have changed, box date is when the cigars were placed in the box, not when rolled - which probably happened many months prior. I'd rather smoke a good cigar regardless of the stamp to celebrate an occasion. Just me.

 

Is there really that much backlog between rolling and boxing?  Why would that be?

 

- MG

 

[Smallclub]

2 hours ago, brschoppe said:

  My question is would that cigar have aged past it prime our would it still have a good taste?  I was just wondering if was worth while seeking out and making the investment at this point? 

Do you realize it's not possible to answer to your question without knowing what cigar we're talking about? To begin with, I don't believe any habano from 2009 would be past its prime in 2016…

[Habana Mike]

1 hour ago, Colt45 said:

My own personal perspective..... unless things have changed, box date is when the cigars were placed in the box, not when rolled - which probably happened many months prior. I'd rather smoke a good cigar regardless of the stamp to celebrate an occasion. Just me.

Keep in mind the child was also placed in the box several months before he was born 

[zeedubbya]

27 minutes ago, MaxG said:

 

Is there really that much backlog between rolling and boxing?  Why would that be?

 

- MG

 

It's my understanding that cigars generally sit in an aging room for an undetermined amount of time after being sorted, but before being boxed.  I suppose it depends on the particular cigar how long they leave them to age after being rolled.  Correct me if I am wrong. 

 

5 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

Do you realize it's not possible to answer to your question without knowing what cigar we're talking about? To begin with, I don't believe any habano from 2009 would be past its prime in 2016…

 You're being much too harsh in answering (or not answering) his question.  I have a handful of cigars in my humidor which are 16-20 years old and they mostly smoke great.  I've had a few which tasted like woody dusty air, but it's not the norm.  Marca or Vitola seems irrelevant to me--I guess it's just a matter of how they age.  I've had strong cigars age to nothing and lighter cigars age to stronger cigars.  I got a Punch Churchill from our resident cigar climatologist from the 90s which was way stronger than I remember any Punch Churchill ever being.  I also got a Partagas D4 from a friend which was much less strong than younger ones.  Connie 1s seem to strengthen with age to me.  So it's kind of all over the place it seems.  Hope this helps a little.  Get a box of 2009 while you still can reasonably and put them up.  I think it's a great idea ! 

[MaxG]

16 minutes ago, zeedubbya said:

It's my understanding that cigars generally sit in an aging room for an undetermined amount of time after being sorted, but before being boxed.  I suppose it depends on the particular cigar how long they leave them to age after being rolled.  Correct me if I am wrong. 

 

Don't "know" that you're wrong,  my Buckeye BOTL. Just assumed that with a product that generates revenue as soon as it's shipped there would be quite minimal delay between production finishing and shipping.   

Do you have evidence of delay?

 

-MG 

 

[zeedubbya]

37 minutes ago, MaxG said:

 

Don't "know" that you're wrong,  my Buckeye BOTL. Just assumed that with a product that generates revenue as soon as it's shipped there would be quite minimal delay between production finishing and shipping.   

Do you have evidence of delay?

 

-MG 

 

Link below from HSA website and also I remember seeing this in a video I watched-can't recall which one?  Maybe a member who has been to the factories can speak better to this than I can I am sure.  

http://www.habanos.com/en/el-mundo-del-habano/verificando-el-trabajo/?age-verified=edc968145a

[Smallclub]

55 minutes ago, zeedubbya said:

 You're being much too harsh in answering (or not answering) his question.  I have a handful of cigars in my humidor which are 16-20 years old and they mostly smoke great. 

And? Anyone with a bit of experience knows that a PLPC or a RASS doesn't age at the same rate as a Monte 4 or a Partagas D4. And yes certain cigars seem to strengthen with age… So I'm being "too harsh" when I ask which cigars we're talking about?

[zeedubbya]

48 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

And? Anyone with a bit of experience knows that a PLPC or a RASS doesn't age at the same rate as a Monte 4 or a Partagas D4. And yes certain cigars seem to strengthen with age… So I'm being "too harsh" when I ask which cigars we're talking about?

I just wrote a long explanation of how I felt you were being harsh, but decided to delete it.  I'm not trying to bring anyone down on the forum and if that happened I apologize.  Positive contributions to the community only from me.  Maybe harsh was poor wording.  Onward and upward.

I would like to know more about your experience with how different cigars age, because (and I am being sincere) I am guessing you have a decent amount of experience in this area.  I have a reasonable amount of experience myself, and I wasn't aware that a PLPC and a RASS age at different rates than a Monte 4 and a D4.  My experience is just not that vast.  What would you say (in your experience) are the best Marcas and/or Vitolas if a person wanted to put a box away for 15-20 years.  Like the OP I am considering the same thing for my daughters birth month and year so I would like to know?  Thank you.  

[dvickery]

Cigars aged by me that I purchased young ( less than 3 years ) ... 10 15 20 year old boxes ... I have yet to find an " expired " box .

guys ... It is ALL in the storage of your cigars ... I do this ... Store/age full boxes ... No opening the box to look at them .

thats it ... And of course maintain steady temp/humidity .

I believe ... no such thing as " expired " cigars if you do it right ... But maybe I am just lucky .

derrek

[Jeremy Festa]

Really looking forward to seeing how this thread progresses.

I smoked a 1934 cigar with Smithy not so long ago and it was delightfully fragrant, and as floral as you could get. Storage conditions were unknown for the majority of its 82 years.

I smoked a 2011 regional something or other and it was flavourless. Storage conditions known and perfect.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LordAnubis]

5 hours ago, Smallclub said:

And? Anyone with a bit of experience knows that a PLPC or a RASS doesn't age at the same rate as a Monte 4 or a Partagas D4. And yes certain cigars seem to strengthen with age… So I'm being "too harsh" when I ask which cigars we're talking about?

There's a way to answer a question without coming across as in a condescending manner. A simple "Any cigar in particular you are talking about? I think each cigar is different, but i don't think any cigar from 2009 is past its prime" would have sufficed. Not everyone has experience with cigars, hence why they ask questions.

@brschoppe I find i don't like a lot of cigars passed 6 or 7 years. I went through a stage of buying a lot of 10-30 year old cigars. I find that time frame just didn't pique my interest. I don't like 6 month old cigars either mind you. I'm finding my sweet spot between 2 and 7 years for everything from QdO Imperialles, to Bolivar Coronas Junior. Tastes are a personal preference. What i like may be at polar opposite to what you like. Try out a few singles and go from there. What yo uare suggesting is not much about cigars, but more about sentiment. If i was to partake in a project such as this i'd go with anything Bolivar or Hupman. The Bolivar Corona Gigantes are pretty special at the moment . No doubt can't go wrong with that.

[subport]

20 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

There's a way to answer a question without coming across as in a condescending manner. A simple "Any cigar in particular you are talking about? I think each cigar is different, but i don't think any cigar from 2009 is past its prime" would have sufficed. Not everyone has experience with cigars, hence why they ask questions.

@brschoppe I find i don't like a lot of cigars passed 6 or 7 years. I went through a stage of buying a lot of 10-30 year old cigars. I find that time frame just didn't pique my interest. I don't like 6 month old cigars either mind you. I'm finding my sweet spot between 2 and 7 years for everything from QdO Imperialles, to Bolivar Coronas Junior. Tastes are a personal preference. What i like may be at polar opposite to what you like. Try out a few singles and go from there.

My preferences are quite close to that Mus. But as I remember we went through this when you were here. I pretty much like most of the cigars in the 1-5 yrs range. Not all but most of them. Few to come in the 5-8 yrs and story ends there. None of the vintage cigars (15+) were that outstanding I smoked. And on top of everything I like mongrel in many cigars and love to separate the flavours.

[Fugu]

On 8/20/2016 at 8:45 AM, brschoppe said:

In the past few weeks I have seen a few boxes that Rob has put up on the site from his trip to Hong Kong.  Some of these were from 2009, the year my son was born.  Not knowing anything about acquiring Cuban cigars nor anything about aging back then, I didn't think to pick up a box from that year.  I have always had this vision of sitting back with my son on a camping trip in 2027 or 2030 when my son is 18 or 21 and enjoying a cigar from his birth year with him.  My question is would that cigar have aged past it prime our would it still have a good taste?  I was just wondering if was worth while seeking out and making the investment at this point?  Maybe my better bet is seeking out the 12 year old bottle of scotch in 2021 or 18 year old bottle in 2027 and enjoy it with whatever cigars are around at that time?

If you are heading for such time-scales - get some decent Bordeaux from that vintage.

 

On 8/20/2016 at 9:23 AM, Colt45 said:

My own personal perspective..... unless things have changed, box date is when the cigars were placed in the box, not when rolled - which probably happened many months prior.

 

On 8/20/2016 at 11:28 AM, zeedubbya said:

It's my understanding that cigars generally sit in an aging room for an undetermined amount of time after being sorted, but before being boxed.  I suppose it depends on the particular cigar how long they leave them to age after being rolled.  Correct me if I am wrong.

Usually, it's just a few weeks rather than months.

[joeypots]

The time between rolling and boxing is used to determine which bands are put on the cigars.

[stogieluver]

13 hours ago, MaxG said:

 

Is there really that much backlog between rolling and boxing?  Why would that be?

 

- MG

 

Based on what I saw in the factories I visited, the rolling, sorting, and boxing all happen within a short time frame.  The tobacco is aged prior to rolling, of course, but once it's reached the end of the pre-production aging process, the production process proceeds without delay.  At least that's my impression from seeing the process first hand and also on various videos and shows. 

[Danimalia]

17 hours ago, brschoppe said:

In the past few weeks I have seen a few boxes that Rob has put up on the site from his trip to Hong Kong.  Some of these were from 2009, the year my son was born.  Not knowing anything about acquiring Cuban cigars nor anything about aging back then, I didn't think to pick up a box from that year.  I have always had this vision of sitting back with my son on a camping trip in 2027 or 2030 when my son is 18 or 21 and enjoying a cigar from his birth year with him.  My question is would that cigar have aged past it prime our would it still have a good taste?  I was just wondering if was worth while seeking out and making the investment at this point?  Maybe my better bet is seeking out the 12 year old bottle of scotch in 2021 or 18 year old bottle in 2027 and enjoy it with whatever cigars are around at that time?

Maybe you could find some tubos, or a 3 pack or something. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the investment as much and you could just savor the experience? Of course, by the time your son turns 18/21, he might not care to smoke.  I think it's a cool idea.

[Lant63]

Different marcas most definitely peak in different time periods in my limited experiences.  I plan on doing something similar when I start having children.  I plan on putting away a couple boxes of BBF and PLPC. Both are easy to procure, and and have a wide range of month codes.  But, more importantly I think they will have the legs to age 20+ years.  I've smoked some 10+ year old bolivars and to my palate they are graceful and a floral note develops that is not present in the first 5 years. Aged Bolivars are some of my favorite cigars to smoke for that reason.  I also think that the caramel, sweet characteristics of PL need time to peak as well.  I think that you could choose any cigar in the regular bolivar line to age with exception to the BCG. I find it to be lighter than the rest of the Marca.  

I personally would not age anything Hoyo. They taste like hot air to me, it is just a personal preference. I do not think that they could hold up for that long. But then some members here smoke 1998 hoyo churchill and swear by them. In the end I think it is up to personal preference concerning what cigars you like.  I also would not put down monte 2, unless they are hand picked because they are far to variable. Other Monte would probably hold up fine.  If you have have deep pockets I'm sure you could find some Cohibas which also age very well.  

Side note 50 cabs might be the way to go.  you could smoke one every year on yours son's B day and still have 25+ when he is of age to start enjoying them. That way you can fully experience the aging process.  

[fabes]

I'd be curious to hear thoughts on cigars that come in wooden boxes like QdO vs dress boxes. I know people go crazy for cabs and that makes perfect sense. How does a wooden box like a QdO compare to a standard dress box or even a cab. It seems that there would be less air circulation in QdO coronas than a cab. And in my experience QdO seems to get more heavenly the longer they rest. Same for cigars like Monte Especial. Is there a reason those cigars are put in those type of boxes and others get standard dress boxes?

[TheMonk]

I personally would not age anything Hoyo. They taste like hot air to me, it is just a personal preference. I do not think that they could hold up for that long.

I couldn't agree more! On both statements. I just can't understand the passion for Hoyos... Have never smoked one I truly enjoyed (alas I'm still missing the DC).

[ThePolskiOgorki]

I think this is a cool idea and I actually have a box of RA Club Allones LE 2015s set aside for the same purpose. However  something occurred to me while reading this thread and from @Danimalia's post. That is regardless of how good or bad the cigar has aged by the time you or I smoke them with our sons there really are 2 scenarios.

First scenario:

I smoke the carefully aged cigar with my son. It may or may not be an amazing cigar, but one thing is for sure it will be very special. He will likely not even fully appreciate what doing that for him or with him meant for both of you until he is older and has kids of his own. The gesture is the only thing that matters. 

Second Scenario:

My son wants absolutely nothing to do with a cigar or anything tobacco related. This is further complicated by the fact that it is now illegal to smoke anywhere other than the North Pole and even the seals have begun to protest! 

I am hoping for Scenario 1. 

 

If I were in your position and by that I mean, a number of years past my sons birth year, I would just look for something I know I liked from a cigar that is typically fuller bodied. It is hard to suggest anything beyond that in my opinion. 

 

[Sunsmoke]

@torsion have a look at this thread!