Perfumy cigars

[jacksfull]

Several cigars from a box of Monte #4's I've been smoking on have been extremely perfumy tasting. I mean WAY beyond simple floral notes... so strong it's hard to believe it's due to natural flavor variations in the tobacco.

Any chance this could be caused by the roller using hand lotion or such?

Montecristo No. 4 twang is delightful... Doused in Chanel No. 5, not so much!

[oliverdst]

I dont know. But if it has something to do with someone touching the cigars maybe not in Cuba but the vendor.

[jacksfull]

I dont know. But if it has something to do with someone touching the cigars maybe not in Cuba but the vendor.

Doubtful. I've gotten perfumy ones off both top & bottom rows of this particular box. Box was inspected, but the cigars did not appear to be handled (you know how box-pressed cigars ofter stick together until you break them loose?). And, it's only 3 or 4 out of just over half a box smoked that have been this way.

I can imagine a torcedora using hand lotion on dry hands to give her better grip without thinking about it getting into the cigars (or maybe just not caring). Possible?

[Maplepie]

Maybe they found another batch of the Montecristo 520 leaf. (or they snuck in some 420 leaf )

Sent from the Enigma via Tapatalk for BlackBerry Classic.

[Smallclub]

I'm always stunned when this question comes back again. Do people really think that torcedors don't have the basic knowledge, ie that tobacco leaves/cigars are sponges for all odors?

I doubt it.

btw, if the smell is that of Chanel No.5, the contamination occured in the importer's premises, not in Cuba where the bottle is probably worth 1 or 2 years of a worker's wage…

[jacksfull]

I'm always stunned when this question comes back again. Do people really think that torcedors don't have the basic knowledge, ie that tobacco leaves/cigars are sponges for all odors?

I doubt it.

btw, if the smell is that of Chanel No.5, the contamination occured in the importer's premises, not in Cuba where the bottle is probably worth 1 or 2 years of a worker's wage…

The Chanel quip was just a play on words. Hand lotion would be more the actual suspect, and with reason that a roller might want to use it..

You say the question keeps coming up, which would indicate a reoccurring problem. I guess it's not that I think torcedors don't know better... it's more like wondering if one just didn't care over and above her/his own discomfort from dry hands.

If you want to go on record saying it's not possible, I accept that as your outlook on it however much I might disagree.

I have serious doubts about the "import vendor" alternate theory, though, for reasons already explained. And, frankly, if you feel you can absolutely rule out the rolling table because torcedors know better, why would you assume that cigar vendors don't?

Let me also add that the perfuminess manifested itself throughout the entire length of the cigars in question. That counter-indicates the touch of a perfumed finger here and there. It is ingrained in the construction of the cigars.

[CaptainQuintero]

Isn't this one of those things that no one really knows?

Badly fermented tobacco

Soap

Perfume

Etc?

I personally lean to the first as there isn't really any specific cigar which has it as a profile (From my experience) its usually the odd one once or twice a year, no rhyme or reason and never the same brand

[TonyAccardo]

What I'm surprised about is the amount of people, who, when this question is asked, have never had experience with this or say things like "could be that the torcedor had lotion/perfume on their hands!"

I highly doubt torcedors in Cuba even have the income to afford perfumes but nevertheless, it has nothing to do with perfume/lotions even if they did.

This is a defect in the tobacco itself and I've had this happen in many cigars I've smoked over the years, both Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, etc, but have experienced it much more in Cuban cigars than I have in cigars from any other area. What causes this perfumey taste is a chemical in the tobacco called beta damascenones and is what is used to make rose water and is what gives flowers their scent. From the research I've done on it, it is ever present in unfermented tobacco leaf and is therefore a defect caused by the underfermentation or inadequate fermentation of the tobaccos used to roll the cigars. A little floral taste/flavor can be pleasant when it is balanced with other flavors, but when it is so overpowering as it is in some cuban cigars, it is not pleasant at all.

More importantly, no amount of time will make overly floral cigars "come around" either as it is inadequately fermented tobacco from the get go. Although one might think that his/her cigars have "come around" after having let them sit for some time, the reality of the matter is that that cigar was just better and not that intensely floral from its inception and has nothing to do with the time its sat. One of the most eye opening things I have done concerning cigars and the effects of aging was to go through an entire box within a months time. I smoked cigars that were horribly floral and then the next one would be ok, the next would be great and then the next was a floral mess again. Had nothing to do with the time they sat.

[Smallclub]

This is a defect in the tobacco itself and I've had this happen in many cigars I've smoked over the years, both Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, etc, but have experienced it much more in Cuban cigars than I have in cigars from any other area. What causes this perfumey taste is a chemical in the tobacco called beta damascenones and is what is used to make rose water and is what gives flowers their scent. From the research I've done on it, it is ever present in unfermented tobacco leaf and is therefore a defect caused by the underfermentation or inadequate fermentation of the tobaccos used to roll the cigars.

I don't disagree with you but I think it's a bit more complicated; the degradation of carotenoid products (including beta-Damascenone) is a normal step in tobacco maturation.

http://www.leffingwell.com/tob2.htm

And I have found that unpleasant flavour more often in dominican cigars; I don't even remember when I've found it in a habanos.

[jacksfull]

I'm happy to hear there's an explanation... we maybe not happy, but better informed now.

[btp1979]

And here I thought this was going to be a thread about how terrible infused cigars are. Do they even have Acid cigars outside of the US?

edit for spelling

Edited July 26, 2015 by btp1979

[anacostiakat]

I have experienced this a couple of times through the years. It dissipates over time. So if you find them unapproachable now just leave them alone for a good while.

[alloy]

The perfume taste and odor is why I won't buy Cohiba Pirimide Extras anymore. Also, this past wek, I smoked a three year old Carlo Fernandez and it had the same taste and odor. No other flavors. Very disappointing.

[TonyAccardo]

I don't disagree with you but I think it's a bit more complicated; the degradation of carotenoid products (including beta-Damascenone) is a normal step in tobacco maturation.

http://www.leffingwell.com/tob2.htm

And I have found that unpleasant flavour more often in dominican cigars; I don't even remember when I've found it in a habanos.

That's the way personal experiences go as i have experienced it far more in cuban cigars. I had an Upmann 2 last night, while not as flowery as what the OP is describing, it was a bit more floral than I like. And to be honest about it, my data pull is biased as I don't smoke many dominicans anymore although I don't remember it being a common experience when I did.

When you say tobacco maturation, do you mean as the plant grows before it is harvested or do mean as the cigars mature sitting in the box?

[AusDyer]

Hello ancient thread. I just found this on a search as I am right now smoking an really nicely rolled Vegas Robaina Unicos with the most stunning rich rosado wrapper, but it has this very distinct old perfume note. It genuinely really does taste like actual perfume that's been absorbed into the whole blend. I've never noticed anything like this in any kind of tobaccos, however they were fermented. Not sure I agree with the assertion that this is a normal taste from poorly fermented tobacco. The wrappers on these and the otherwise rich, sweet and delicious flavours indicate the tobaccos used were absolutely well fermented.

Despite some rather rude, gaslighting comments here to other posters asking questions, in the 2 decades I've been enjoying cigars I can guarantee that there are plenty of rollers who are not exactly professional about it, at least not all the time. How many cigars have you smoked that had seriously bad twists, folds and even huge stems in them? Or cigars where the filler was wrapped backwards? Or cigars where glue was smeared all over the bands and so on? There have also often been cases of rollers stealing bits of high quality seco here and there to use for themselves. It is extremely possible for occasional rollers to have a bit of perfume on their hands from some source or other.
 

[BrightonCorgi]

Fonseca No.1 generally have perfumed incense profile that quite unique in the Habanos portfolio. Perhaps leaves from the same finca are shared?

[El Presidente]

On 7/22/2024 at 2:57 AM, AusDyer said:

It is extremely possible for occasional rollers to have a bit of perfume on their hands from some source or other.

Always possible. 

I have struck this (chemical perfumed taste) a few times over the years. It stands out. I can't recall ever having more than a rogue cigar however, i.e. the rest of the box was as expected. 

Poorly fermented tobacco on the other hand will be replicated in that box. 

[RDB]

If you asked me which cigar was most likely to have this kind of aroma, I would definitely have said Unicos. They really stand out to me for their exotic profile and unusual flavours, especially the ones with dark wrappers. I love it, and assume it is a natural variation rather than a contaminant.

[La_Tigre]

 

Found the answer just a few posts down…

[Sandman]

13 hours ago, RDB said:

If you asked me which cigar was most likely to have this kind of aroma, I would definitely have said Unicos. They really stand out to me for their exotic profile and unusual flavours, especially the ones with dark wrappers. I love it, and assume it is a natural variation rather than a contaminant.

Tasted it quite a few times in Cohiba, although usually doesn’t last. Years ago I lit an 02 Punch DC out of 50 cab and it was so perfumy it tasted like it had been soaked in perfume. Was horrible. None of the others in the box tasted that way. It’s got to be perfume or soap on the rollers hands. 

[TacoSauce]

I just had a PL Galanes yesterday with this very note. I love it! In fact, it was the very thing that "saved" an otherwise bitter cigar.

 

[Ford2112]

I've smoked a few where I swear somebody scratched their ass.

[westg]

Remember the days of Smallclub? Never a dull moment. Oliverdst, if you read this please come back! I know you stick your head in on occasion. Old threads, hey? 👋 

[GerardMichaelTX]

I hear a lot of back and forth on the thread but has anyone experimented with creating flavors as the cigar burns? I don't think it is always the case that the flavor comes through with perfumes, lotions, et cetera. It is definitely a possibility but if the roller where using that much grease on her hands there should be more than just floral notes but rather a  harsh flavor from imparting oils into the leaf.

In my opinion, It would be worth rolling a few cigars to confirm this.

[AusDyer]

16 hours ago, GerardMichaelTX said:

I hear a lot of back and forth on the thread but has anyone experimented with creating flavors as the cigar burns? I don't think it is always the case that the flavor comes through with perfumes, lotions, et cetera. It is definitely a possibility but if the roller where using that much grease on her hands there should be more than just floral notes but rather a  harsh flavor from imparting oils into the leaf.

In my opinion, It would be worth rolling a few cigars to confirm this.

Just to add another point, I have had this exact kind of taste before from what I discovered were odour masking gels used in or around drying rooms for, well, something other than cigar tobacco... Anyway, I wondered for years what on earth this was, whether it could be some kind of strange natural terpene, but I found out exactly what it was - "Ona gel". This basically gives off an extremely pungent artificial perfume that soaks into things very easily and can completely dominate the taste of anything smoked. It's not in the dry smell, but when lit and smoked, the flavour is obvious. Basically, without going into it in too much detail, I absolutely know what artificial perfume tastes like when it's lightly soaked into something that's then smoked, and my experience with that Robaina Unicos was exactly like that only not quite so overpowering and still a fair amount of the cigar's natural flavour coming through. The first third of the cigar had more of it, but that may well just be because after burning down and heating up a while, some of those molecules dissipate. The parts where it was strongest tasting definitely seemed to have actually damaged the tobacco's own taste, and where it died down, suddenly a lot more of the real tobacco's creaminess and flavours appeared. Someone with proper knowledge of the chemistry might help here, but I am sure such strong perfume odours can actually interact with natural oils/terpenes in something like tobacco and dominate them.

If you've ever smelled perfume left on clothing for a while, that is precisely the taste (which shows up through the nose mainly), and I can only promise you it is not something ever found naturally in tobacco. A natural "floral" quality to tobacco is different to this, as this is not just some slight floral-esque hints but an obvious musk and potpourri quality. The molecules from perfume that's long since evaporated all it's alcohol and rubbed off on the leaf slightly will not make the tobacco harsh, and all it takes is traces of old perfume on the hands while rolling, not hands doused in the stuff or "greasy". Perfume, as it is designed to do, goes a very long way, sticks to things with great ease even in trace amounts and can be completely unnoticed by a person who regularly wears the stuff. This is very tiny trace amounts of old, long-dried-out perfume we're talking here. If you actually poured the stuff on tobacco then smoked it, absolutely it would make it smoke harsh and taste extremely vile.

Not sure what you're asking though with regards to "has anyone experimented with creating flavours as the cigar burns"? You're talking about blending? I'm sure Rob and Hamlet can tell you all about that if so.