ThuringiaSmoker Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hey guys, a thing I'm wondering about recently: Have you noticed an overall change in the blend of cuban cigars recently? For me the 2013 and 2014 vintages are significantly milder and can good be smoked when young. They do not have that really heavy sick period when every puff is just ugly Last one i had with a really sick period was the Hoyo EL 2013 - with the aged Limitada Tobacco. The Punch EL 2013 in comparison never had a heavy sick period. Had cigars of 3 boxes and they were always ready to smoke. Maybe a bit harsh sometimes, but not that bad. Regular production as well, they can be smoked within the first year without problems. My 2011 boxes in comparison where much stronger, they have their real periods and need to lay down a while. Did you have the same impression? I'm particularly wondering about the long-time aging potential, i don't really see it in the younger vintages?!
shlomo Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Have not had a cigar with a distinctive "sick period" in a decade. Nothing has changed in the past 2 or 3 years imo.
terrantheman Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Have not had a cigar with a distinctive "sick period" in a decade. Nothing has changed in the past 2 or 3 years imo. I concur. I've had bad cuban cigars but haven't experienced a "sick" cigar in a long time.
ThuringiaSmoker Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 Hm.. i had those with Hoyo EL 2011, PLPC 2011, RASS from 2010 when smoked in 2012.. might have been more, but these i remember right now.
LordAnubis Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I wonder how much effort goes into changing the crops. I would imagine they continually try to make new strains of the plant etc? More resistant to beetles or sunlight damage or something?
wabashcr Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I've certainly heard rumblings that somewhere in that time frame, or maybe just before, Cuba started doing something different to make certain cigars smoke better young. The theory seems to be that this is at the expense of some of the benefits of aging. Since many NCs are blended to be smoked young, supposedly Cuba is now trying to offer a similar experience with some cigars. I can't vouch for the veracity of any of this, but it's certainly an interesting topic.
sw15825 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hm.. i had those with Hoyo EL 2011, PLPC 2011, RASS from 2010 when smoked in 2012.. might have been more, but these i remember right now.I also said a while back that the 2012 and 13 cigars seemed ready to smoke even earlier than late 2011 and earlier vintages. I would not say they were in a sick period but just younger tabacco used in making them. For instance 1 or 2 year old tabaccos vs.2, 3 year old tabaccos that were fermented a litlle better/longer and there is the difference. However, truly "Sick" cigars ? No. Sick cigars are way more unpleasant than just flat flavor or rough around the edges. Blends, some improvements, but I wouldn't say changed, but they are handmade and won't always taste exactly the same from batch to batch and year to year. imo. I have not smoked enough of 2014 cigars to give thoughts on them really.
Smallclub Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I've certainly heard rumblings that somewhere in that time frame, or maybe just before, Cuba started doing something different to make certain cigars smoke better young. The theory seems to be that this is at the expense of some of the benefits of aging. NOT in "that time frame". That was in 2003. The famous "cooked tobacco" theory, that started with collectioners from Hong Kong. 1
Smallclub Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I wonder how much effort goes into changing the crops. I would imagine they continually try to make new strains of the plant etc? More resistant to beetles or sunlight damage or something? Cuba is at the forefront of research on black tobacco, with their renowned Instituto de Investigaciones del Tabaco.
Smallclub Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 However, truly "Sick" cigars ? No. Sick cigars are way more unpleasant than just flat flavor or rough around the edges. Blends, some improvements, but I wouldn't say changed, Agreed on both points. I think those of us who tried to smoke a really sick D4, RASS or Punch Punch in the early 2000's know that "sickness" has disappeared from the picture. However certain habanos can still go through a "dull period". 3
bbguardsp Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 How about the ash color as well? Is it me or have we seen "whiter" spectrum colors compared to years ago? I've always been told the whiter the ash the better processed the tobacco is. Some of my 06 and 07s smoke great but have a much darker ash to them. 1
earthson Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 How about the ash color as well? Is it me or have we seen "whiter" spectrum colors compared to years ago? I've always been told the whiter the ash the better processed the tobacco is. Some of my 06 and 07s smoke great but have a much darker ash to them. Can't comment on the veracity of this, but CA did an article several years ago attesting to the fact that ash color is a symptom of the mineral content of the soil the tobacco was grown in. If I remember right, healthy levels of either calcium or magnesium were responsible for white ash. Whatever it was, Cuban soil typically lacks the mineral in question. I've been amazed that recent H Upmann (2013) smokes have a very white, almost NC, ash.
ThuringiaSmoker Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 I once read something about the problems of industrial monoculture... and the fact that cuba is not aware of that. Might everything be a little nervousness. Maybe it is really the point that there are some benefits in research so the cuban tobacco is now better to smoke young.. but nonetheless i am scared about the long term aging potential.
Smallclub Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I once read something about the problems of industrial monoculture... and the fact that cuba is not aware of that. "industrial"? When most vegueros don't even own a farm tractor?
canadianbeaver Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Yesterday I had the pleasure *** of a local fellow walk up to the porch while Matthew and I sat in the sun having a smoke. He just came back from Cuba with a couple of special Cohibas and wanted our expert opinion on their genuosity (new word!) Blah blah blah blah. One thing that was interesting was he said he goes there several times a year and last year there was a real crisis with the tobacco crop. We should expect a shortage and therefore price increase in later 2014's, 2015's etc. Anyone?
JohnS Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Can't comment on the veracity of this, but CA did an article several years ago attesting to the fact that ash color is a symptom of the mineral content of the soil the tobacco was grown in. If I remember right, healthy levels of either calcium or magnesium were responsible for white ash. Whatever it was, Cuban soil typically lacks the mineral in question. I've been amazed that recent H Upmann (2013) smokes have a very white, almost NC, ash. I second your readings in regards to ash colour and its relation to mineral content in soil. From my personal experience, the whitest ash cigars I've had have been Nicaraguan, whereas my Cubans have tended to be light grey. Flavourwise, I still love that smooth, creamy sweet Cuban mildness which I'm getting from my recent CC's.
ThuringiaSmoker Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 "industrial"? When most vegueros don't even own a farm tractor? Industrial in the meaning of pushing Production go the Limits for several years.
Smallclub Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Industrial in the meaning of pushing Production go the Limits for several years. Production can be raised, pushed, slowed down, whatever; but the number of crops a soil can give per year is a fixed data.
El Presidente Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 My opinion only. I think 2006 was the first year in which I noticed a marked and distinctive increase in cigar quality across the board. That is smoking quality of the cigars (ability to be smoked young). To me it was the best year since 1996-8. A lot of that came down to the Cubans actually having for the first time since the mid 90's enough properly aged Ligero/Seco to go around. Quality has generally increased since 2006 with some noticeable fumbles (underfilling in 2009/10 in some Marques). That has appears to have mostly been rectified. If I had a year to pick in the last 15 it would be 2013/14. I think it is just a result of incremental improvement. In relation to ash colour over the years, I really haven't noticed a difference. I have had cigars with a predominantly white ash but it is still a rarity. When it does occur, I tend to think it is more a result of a faster burn or underfilling or both. Not always the case.
El Presidente Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 One thing that was interesting was he said he goes there several times a year and last year there was a real crisis with the tobacco crop. We should expect a shortage and therefore price increase in later 2014's, 2015's etc. Anyone? The shortage is due predominantly to wrapper leaf and some weird production machinations going on with El Laguito. Many RE's from 2014 are running way behind (Bushido included). Some received by distributors but not their full order (by a long way). From the HSA wholesale side (what is being shipped out of Havana), Cohiba is scarce. III/IV/V/VI and Behike are in tiny numbers. Price increases are a given. I expect 6-8% each year over the next 3 years. That doesn't translate necessarily to the same increase to consumers (taxes) etal. However, distributor purchases are in USD so currency has an impact here as well. They (HSA/Tabacuba) having an eye on increased demand from the USA will also need to pay higher prices to farmers to ensure more tobacco is planted. Infrastructure (from growing to factory) will also need to be upgraded. It really is a conundrum as to what is going on right now on many levels. 1
Ryan Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 The shortage is due predominantly to wrapper leaf and some weird production machinations going on with El Laguito. Many RE's from 2014 are running way behind (Bushido included). Some received by distributors but not their full order (by a long way). From the HSA wholesale side (what is being shipped out of Havana), Cohiba is scarce. III/IV/V/VI and Behike are in tiny numbers. Price increases are a given. I expect 6-8% each year over the next 3 years. That doesn't translate necessarily to the same increase to consumers (taxes) etal. However, distributor purchases are in USD so currency has an impact here as well. They (HSA/Tabacuba) having an eye on increased demand from the USA will also need to pay higher prices to farmers to ensure more tobacco is planted. Infrastructure (from growing to factory) will also need to be upgraded. It really is a conundrum as to what is going on right now on many levels. Regarding some of the stuff I found out about production from my recent trip. Many farmers had a very difficult year. Hector, for example, has barns that aren't nearly full and a lot of young plants in the ground, which is very late in the season. Francisco Milian (Pancho Cuba) didn't plant any shade grown wrapper tobacco at all this year due to conditions (weather and disease), that would affect his income. All of his crop was badly affected by weather fleck, very visible on most of his plants. Production at El Corojo looked fine but very few of the plants harvested as of last week. The plants looked healthy though. El Laguito has been closed for a while now. It opened the week before the festival and for the week of the festival but only on the ground floor and very limited production about 30-40 rollers working. The factory is undergoing renovations and they are having problems with the roof. Once repairs are completed, full production, including Behikes, will return to El Laguito. I suppose it is the Cohiba 50th Anniversary next year. They'll want the factory looking well.
CaptainQuintero Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Better start saving for the Cohiba 50th anniversary release! 1
JohnS Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Or jump on Cohiba deals in the meantime and/or stockpile current supplies in your inventory, if possible.
Ryan Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Better start saving for the Cohiba 50th anniversary release! Absolutely.
LordAnubis Posted March 10, 2015 Posted March 10, 2015 Bet it'll be 66 Ring Gauge to mark the year Cohiba was born or whatever the 1966 represents. You heard it here first 2
.png.15b5f6bc4159a73805a9f118f79a68ca.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now