What is cheap and what is expensive?

[BonVivant]

Anyone can get a good $150-250 bottle of wine, the idea is to get it at $15 a bottle

An $18 Cohiba Esplendido that is really disappointing or, at $35 THAT is devastating - which would you choose?

I recently got a box of Lonsdales from 1995, for the price of Lonsdales of 1895, and it was awful, and I paid an arm and a leg for something else, equally respectable and prominent and it is heaven, so?

What are your ideas?

[...]

About wine or cigars?

[BonVivant]

About wine or cigars?

TRY BOTH?

[...]

Wine is bound to be tough. Availability and pricing fluctuates so much depending on where you live

[BonVivant]

Buy 10 cigar and be disappointed or buy 20 cigar and be happy

[Lotusguy]

I'm sorry, but what are you asking? It's really unclear.

[...]

I guess I'm generally happy when I at least get my money's worth. Less is frustrating, more is bound to be a nice surprise

[Skyfall]

You know what's really expensive ?

Women!

At least I understand cigars....

[Habana Mike]

I'd rather acquire anything for less that is great than anything for more that is subpar - general gist?

Per the specific question regarding the Esplendido if I read it right, I'd rather have the $35 stick (if devastating is a good thing) than the disappointing $18 one.....

Case in point regarding the wine question, my wife and I find we enjoy many $20-ish bottles more than those 3-4x more - or at least as much.

Seems there are two divergent questions though. Yes, I'd rather pay less for something that is as good or better than something that costs way more. Also, if I pay twice as much for the same item that was way better than the same item at half the price I'd be good with that as well.

[...]

You know what's really expensive ?

Women!

At least I understand cigars....

Yep, can afford cigars on a daily basis

[PigFish]

I want a good cigar all the time. Price comes into the equation on two fronts. If cigars are not affordable, you become a non-smoker! If there is no correlation of price to quality of smoking experience then there is no rationale for different priced cigars (given the same weight of tobacco), less the box! I am about the best smoking experience I can afford, not about cigar boxes!

I can accept the fact that cigars are individuals and you don't always get an excellent cigar. I cannot fathom buying cigars that are untested for more than ones that have proven to be good in the past. Furthermore I cannot accept differential brand pricing when I know that the branding is nothing more than a name.

I see the entire pricing scheme from Tabacuba as pretty much of a sham!

I don't mind paying a little more for a cigar, IF I GET A LITTLE MORE! I refuse to pay more for the same or less, based on sham marketing and fancy boxes.

Regardless of what you asked, that is my position!

Cheers -Piggy

[Habana Mike]

You know what's really expensive ?

Women!

At least I understand cigars....

At least cigars are somewhat more predictable in terms of cost and performance.

[PigFish]

At least cigars are somewhat more predictable in terms of cost and performance.

… that is not very complementary to women! -LOL

-the Pig

[headstand]

Perhaps due to the global competition that exists in the wine industry, I find that the price to quality relationship is much more predictable with wine than it is with Cuban cigars. I by three categories of wines: the house wine at about $15 will be outstanding and reliable for the price, but certainly not complex. The diner party wine at about $25 is tasty, shows some complexity, is food friendly. Finally the special occasion wine at $75, I open to share a special meal and evening with my wife, or to share with friends I know can appreciate subtlety and complexity in the juice. I'm a very careful wine buyer. I would be very suspect of a $75 dollar bottle sold for $25...

With cigars, admitting to less experience, I find that price and quality is a crap shoot.

[ramon_cojones]

I think leo has been drinking again

[mk05]

Back from Cedric Gervais, on the deck with an Oliva G, and find this going on...

Anyone can get a good $150-250 bottle of wine, the idea is to get it at $15 a bottle

An $18 Cohiba Esplendido that is really disappointing or, at $35 THAT is devastating - which would you choose?

I recently got a box of Lonsdales from 1995, for the price of Lonsdales of 1895, and it was awful, and I paid an arm and a leg for something else, equally respectable and prominent and it is heaven, so?

What are your ideas?

Buy 10 cigar and be disappointed or buy 20 cigar and be happy

It seems like you presented a koan, thus why some are unable to comprehend. You are inquiring, how does one determine a level of happiness, and why does one do such a thing? Then, asking how one somehow rationally quantify nominal values based on intangible emotions.

This could be misinterpreted as a financially rich or poor question, that price is a function, but I understand where you are going with this. For me, I am rich when I smoke a great cigar at $3, $8, or $20. I am poor when I smoke a terrible cigar at $20, $8, or $3. Usually in a sitting, I grab about 8 cigars and throw out 5-6 cigars because they are bad. I have thrown out $80 vintage cigars, I have thrown out $9 Cohiba's - it doesn't matter to me, because bad is bad. However, a following $6 JL #2 could be a great cigar, or the $50 Tainos after that. The point is that price is an irrelevant function of happiness, because I had already allocated the money aside that I was comfortable to part with, and then bought the cigars as expenses - the money has already been spent - therefore the outcome is now binary for me, good or bad.

[polarbear]

Would you rather have 1 $100 cigar or 100 $1 cigars?

For me it's not about price, it's about value. I'll pay $35 for a cigar if I know I'm going to be getting a good experience out of it. I usually shy away from Cigars about the $12us mark because I find I can often get just as much enjoyment out of a $8 or $9 cigar.

That being said, there are cigars I've purchased that cost in the $15+ range that I was happy to pay for because the experience of smoking them was better than a cheaper variant

[laficion]

Hi everyone,

Frist, I'm not a big Cohiba fan. I find better cigars on the normal Standard lines then Cohiba's. Second, why do I have to

pay big money for a good bottle of wine ,when I can buy a good bottle for less then 10 Euros . I do live In France after all.

Guy

[RijkdeGooier]

It really all depends.

I tend to draw a curve through the following prices for modules I like:

1. Minuto (RASCC, PShort, SCdlH Principes and Monte5 (although a Perla))

2. Mareva (Monte4, RS12, PLPC)

3. Corona Gorda (Mag46, Punch Punch)

4. Prominentes (Lusi, Gigantes, HdM)

If the stick in question deviates markedly from that curve, then they better have a good reason and should be tried and tested.

I tend to make exceptions mainly on grounds of:

- better tobacco used (Cohiba, Trini)

- discontinued (LGC, ERdM)

- vintage (i.e. SP Sanchos from 1998)

[Mckucci]

prices are only relevant to the individual spending the money.

Personally, I spend between anywhere from $20 - $200 on a bottle of wine. This all depends on the type of wine, vintage, etc.

For cigars, I typically choose anything from $10 - 40 max... I prefer smaller vitolas, so it works in my favor that they tend to be less expensive!

[garbandz]

a good bottle of wine

a good cigar

a bad woman

life is good

[Habsfan67]

I think varied levels of disposable income and personal preferences are always in the mix in this sort of discussion.

Setting aside special occasion cigars, I tend to look for the "sweet spot" between price and quality. As you move up or down the price "ladder" from there, (for me at least) the increase or decrease in quality eventually "rolls off" (law of diminishing returns). It could be limitations to my palate, wallet or both but I don't want to spend 100% more on a cigar that (to me) is 10% better. At the other end of the spectrum, I'm not really saving money by spending 50% on a cigar that (to me) is half as enjoyable.

[Dreameagl]

For me it is about two things:

1) What do I get from it? Usually it about the ritual of being able to sit down and relax and

2) Do something that I enjoy.

For 1) I don't care about if I drink a $20 bottle of wine or smoke a $3 cigar or something that is worth 10 times more.

For 2) all that should matter is if I enjoy at that moment what I am drinking/smoking....but then there is the part of the brain that remembers how much I paid for that enjoyment, and with that comes the expectation of more or less enjoyment.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter because as was said before, the money is already spent, so I will try to focus on if I enjoy/like it and remember that for future reference.

I had $800 red wine before (at someone else's house) and I must say that it wasn't really that much better than the $20 red wine I had the night before. So for me, I will try to keep enjoying what my senses tell me is enjoyable.

Even if it is a Guant.... ;-)

[earthson]

Not sure what you're asking, but I know that I generally shy away from ELs and most REs. I've found regular production gems to be much more reliable and artful than the vast majority of special edition cigars I've tried - and they're cheaper!

Case in point: the H Upmann Royal Robusto. Irrespective of the size (which is not exactly on par with my preferences), I have found it to be less enjoyable than a Connie #1 or PC just about every time.

I read so many mixed reviews about Cohiba that I've generally steered clear - the few I've had just did not justify the price tag.

I've always had the best luck with cheap-to-moderately priced cigars that reliably offer a consistent experience. When you come across a seam of good PL Montecarlos, they are at least as enjoyable as the PL Robusto REs from 2007 or the Encantos from a few years later.

[PigFish]

Back from Cedric Gervais, on the deck with an Oliva G, and find this going on...

It seems like you presented a koan, thus why some are unable to comprehend. You are inquiring, how does one determine a level of happiness, and why does one do such a thing? Then, asking how one somehow rationally quantify nominal values based on intangible emotions.

This could be misinterpreted as a financially rich or poor question, that price is a function, but I understand where you are going with this. For me, I am rich when I smoke a great cigar at $3, $8, or $20. I am poor when I smoke a terrible cigar at $20, $8, or $3. Usually in a sitting, I grab about 8 cigars and throw out 5-6 cigars because they are bad. I have thrown out $80 vintage cigars, I have thrown out $9 Cohiba's - it doesn't matter to me, because bad is bad. However, a following $6 JL #2 could be a great cigar, or the $50 Tainos after that. The point is that price is an irrelevant function of happiness, because I had already allocated the money aside that I was comfortable to part with, and then bought the cigars as expenses - the money has already been spent - therefore the outcome is now binary for me, good or bad.

Hi Mark,

… well mate, you lost me here, but it was interesting reading nonetheless. I admit, I did not understand the OP's question, I figured it was lost in translation somewhere. I am curious about this cognitive process you present here, and if you care to elaborate further, I would be interested in reading further analysis.

Somehow I see what you have written, and you can correct me if I am wrong, as a means to remove remorse, remorse based on a function of capital lost, from the equation. Am I right in this, or am I barking up the wrong tree yet again?

Furthermore, is this how you actually perceive the smoking experience, or did you elaborate to edify the rest of us? I am curious about that as well.

Thanks for sharing the insight. I may not get it or agree with it in the end, but you have peaked my interest here in what you have written thus far…

Thanks, Ray