Cost of a cigar

[Stogieninja]

$9 a stick for PLPCs doesn't make me feel any better...

[PigFish]

The average cost of my sticks is probably about 6-7 bucks. I stopped buying all "inexpensive" blends and MM's a long time ago (vintage or not). For me, I don't smoke just to have something burning. I already went through that stage, and this is my personal preference. I smoke purely for flavor. I'd rather not smoke, than smoke a mediocre cigar. If I sit down and light up a cigar with a poor blend or construction, I refuse to "struggle" through it. I once was at a gathering and laid down a 1998 Monte A and Partagas 155 Salamones. Both had tight draws. After clipping them several times, I was done.

With the poor quality control of Cuban cigars, I realized a long time ago that the high price tag does not equate with a quality product. Even within the same box, a STUPENDOUS cigar can easily be followed up with a horrible cigar. Although, every time I choose to light up, I want the probability of having a good experience to be very high. Even if I choose to smoke while mowing the lawn, I will choose a cigar that I like (not a MM or 3 dollar cigar).

A high price tag does not increase my enjoyment at all (nor does special packaging, special production, limited availability, or being "vintage"). The only time I have felt inclined to buy 15+ dollar cigars is when something vintage pops up. However, those days are long gone. With the exposure created by the internet, auctions, websites etc... prices have become largely inflated. A lot more flipping and gouging is present these days. When it comes to vintage stuff, you have to have large amounts of disposable income available... or be willing to kill your bank account for a month.

I haven't bought any cigars in many years. The current progression of marketing, brand elimination, and special packaging has killed my interest in buying or seeking out any new cigars. With limited disposable income, I'd much rather spend my money on other hobbies. It truly a shame that the great cigar experiences seem to be declining... unless you are willing to spend 20-30 bucks on a stick with "limited" production and double bands.

I am not a "old time" smoker by any means; but I truly feel that the industry has totally abandoned the culture and clients which the business was originally built upon. In any business, I feel that the goal should be to acquire a new demographic.... but not sacrifice one for another.

WARNING: Tastes and perceptions of prices are highly subjective! The statements above are opinions, not facts. Everything posted on the internet is not a fact.

It is no wonder I love ya' brother!

While cost is a factor for a cigar, performance value is my focus. The cost of the cigar is just one aspect. An aspect that controls how much you smoke, if smoking is considered a part of a budget.

Good cigars are the target. The price matters little if you can afford it and only in my view if the cigar delivers or not. With a principal focus whereas each cigar is an individual, you are not prone to get better cigars from a price only perspective. Experience with cigars, if smoking experience based on selection has any merit at all, is the key. Knowing what you like is the best guide.

Paying up for something that you don't know you like, while it satisfies a curiosity, another prime part of some smokers lives, is somewhat foolish to me. Expending a portion of a smoking budget, say 10% on experimental smoking is not unreasonable, but we all smoke for our own reasons and yours just might be in trying new things.

I am not a "buy a declining stock" to dollar cost average my mistake of buying a stock too high. It is better to dump the stock, take the hit and go short or find a better choice.

I have to ask is one cigar better than the other when you buy 50 of one type and 10 of another? Which cigars are actually better, or does it matter? Are the numbered 10 cigars 5 times better than the numbered 50 cigars? On average, is one cigar better than the other?

I cannot argue with the desire to mix an match cigars. But Habanos are rife with inconsistencies as it is! You might well get the best cigar you ever smoked from a box of Party shorts as Siglo 6's…!

One or two dud Siglo 6's is a setback if you are a budget conscience smoker. And since there is no guarantee that cost has a correlation to a good or a poor smoking experience, they become a lesser value when you consider that you had a greater chance at a greater amount of quality smoking time with lesser expensive cigars! While empirical and anecdotal in nature, I understand; this is my analysis.

There is therefore little need to try the untested and expensive cigar! The only reason to do so is curiosity and frankly, that is not what drives me to smoke cigars. I smoke cigars to smoke great cigars! I have the experience to know what a great cigar tastes like and where I have to go and what I have to select to get one.

I have no need to hit my hand with a hammer to discover it hurts. The whirling saw blade does not attract me like a moth to light…! There is a time in life where curiosity and the cost for the lesson come to odds with each other. I know that cigars are made by people that work like slaves with little interest in what they are doing (generally). That they don't care if you get your $30 bucks worth out of your cigar any more than they care if you get your $3 bucks worth! Those are the facts as I see them!

Buying known cigars that have historically performed is the best means to acquiring the best "average" of a smoking experience. I would prefer to average up my smoking experience at all times.

In my world if the 50 cab cigar does not hold up, you stop buying them regardless of cost. Along the same lines, if the 10x box of pricey cigars does not hold up, you stop buying them too…

That is where Tabacuba has got me out in the cold. LIke Brandon there is little that excites me in the catalogue, so I will smoke 20yo cigars and wait it out smoking the best cigars that I can afford that I own now!

There is no need to buy a $25 dollar cigar just to find out it is no better than a $4 dollar cigar! Some call it curiosity, and while I too would like to try every new cigar made, the fact that I consider my experience more reliable than the untested Cuban cigar, I will let you guys make the purchases and tell me all about what I am missing!

If I knew that paying $25 was all it took to buy a great cigar I would still be buying them and I would just buy the $25 dollar ones! It is not that easy… but most of you know that by now!

-Piggy

[mncz]

Pig,

Great post to follow Brandon's also excellent post. I have a question in response to the following bit:

Good cigars are the target. The price matters little if you can afford it and only in my view if the cigar delivers or not. With a principal focus whereas each cigar is an individual, you are not prone to get better cigars from a price only perspective. Experience with cigars, if smoking experience based on selection has any merit at all, is the key. Knowing what you like is the best guide.

Paying up for something that you don't know you like, while it satisfies a curiosity, another prime part of some smokers lives, is somewhat foolish to me. Expending a portion of a smoking budget, say 10% on experimental smoking is not unreasonable, but we all smoke for our own reasons and yours just might be in trying new things.

What do you say to someone like myself who, as much as they've tried to explore, is new to the hobby and has not even exceeded one hundred cigars smoked? Many of those first cigars were much less educational as my capacity to discern increases with experience.

I make a concerted effort to maintain a conservative lifestyle. I read this forum for months before even making an account or buying a single Cuban. Though it's obvious that your post was not written with the novice enthusiast in mind I am nevertheless concerned by the expressed condemnation of spending any sum of money without sufficient knowledge.

Although I have not kept a log (but have begun one and intend to continue to track my experiences) I have smoked cigars from a fifteen Cuban marcas since the beginning of this year. Always with the intention of contrasting with my reading and learning, I have done my best to identify flavor profiles and construction quality in order to understand what makes a good cigar. I will leave out aged specimen since (especially given the truth to Brandon's point that to seek them does not seem economical, leaving me to slowly collect with determination, modesty and patience for the future) I have had limited exposure to them and can count the number of sticks with over three years to them I've had on one hand; the oldest of which being approximately seven years (review in my signature).

I am pleased to say that I have been quite intelligent about my purchases thus far and have remained rational while learning and enjoying a good deal of Cuban cigars. I still have much to do/go in order to improve my habits to increase appreciation and refine my palate. As much as I read, it will take some time for understanding and confidence to become second nature in this practice. It's easy for me to become irritated with myself while perusing a box of cigars and knowing that I've still little command of identifying the best of the bunch (for the purposes of determining which to age, which to smoke, and which to gift). To add insult to injury, that type of selection only occurs after you've already spent the money on the box! At least I'm buying affordably.

Still, I echo, what've you to say? Finally, to touch upon previous sentiments left by Brandon – is there hope for a new member to make a lifelong friend of this avocation? Or should I start saving now for aged cigars and drastically redirect focus to other devotions?

[MIKA27]

Many quality current standard production cigars can be had in the $5-8 dollar range while many Limited/Regional and high end cigars can reach into the $25-30+ range (excluding very high end Humidors, jars, Gran Reservas, etc.).

To me, so long as you think of it in terms of dollar coast averaging versus price per stick, one can easily afford to enjoy some of the seemingly out of reach cigars at what can be viewed at a reasonable cost.

Say you buy a 50 Cab of PLPC for $240 and a 10 box of La Flor De Cano - Gran Cano for $295.

You now have 60 cigars with an average price of $8.90 - you wouldn't feel bad about smoking any cigar at that price, right?

Perhaps it's just a means to justify the purchase and smoking of more expensive cigars but it works for me!

You obviously don't live in Australia or Canada stating those prices.

Our costs are so high, many blokes order their cigars and have them delivered to work just to hide them from their wives, then we sneak them home and store when the "coast is clear!"

[El Presidente]

Pig,

Great post to follow Brandon's also excellent post. I have a question in response to the following bit:

What do you say to someone like myself who, as much as they've tried to explore, is new to the hobby and has not even exceeded one hundred cigars smoked? Many of those first cigars were much less educational as my capacity to discern increases with experience.

I make a concerted effort to maintain a conservative lifestyle. I read this forum for months before even making an account or buying a single Cuban. Though it's obvious that your post was not written with the novice enthusiast in mind I am nevertheless concerned by the expressed condemnation of spending any sum of money without sufficient knowledge.

Although I have not kept a log (but have begun one and intend to continue to track my experiences) I have smoked cigars from a fifteen Cuban marcas since the beginning of this year. Always with the intention of contrasting with my reading and learning, I have done my best to identify flavor profiles and construction quality in order to understand what makes a good cigar. I will leave out aged specimen since (especially given the truth to Brandon's point that to seek them does not seem economical, leaving me to slowly collect with determination, modesty and patience for the future) I have had limited exposure to them and can count the number of sticks with over three years to them I've had on one hand; the oldest of which being approximately seven years (review in my signature).

I am pleased to say that I have been quite intelligent about my purchases thus far and have remained rational while learning and enjoying a good deal of Cuban cigars. I still have much to do/go in order to improve my habits to increase appreciation and refine my palate. As much as I read, it will take some time for understanding and confidence to become second nature in this practice. It's easy for me to become irritated with myself while perusing a box of cigars and knowing that I've still little command of identifying the best of the bunch (for the purposes of determining which to age, which to smoke, and which to gift). To add insult to injury, that type of selection only occurs after you've already spent the money on the box! At least I'm buying affordably.

Still, I echo, what've you to say? Finally, to touch upon previous sentiments left by Brandon – is there hope for a new member to make a lifelong friend of this avocation? Or should I start saving now for aged cigars and drastically redirect focus to other devotions?

Excellent post.

Appreciation of cigars comes from ones palate and heart. Not from CA reviews or my own or even Piggys.

You are your own person. Go your own pace, purchase what you want without over thinking it. If that is NC's then who in the world can criticize you?

No one has your palate or circumstances. No one can question what you do or how/why you do it.

[Steens]

Excellent post.

Appreciation of cigars comes from ones palate and heart. Not from CA reviews or my own or even Piggys.

You are your own person. Go your own pace, purchase what you want without over thinking it. If that is NC's then who in the world can criticize you?

No one has your palate or circumstances. No one can question what you do or how/why you do it.

x 1

[dicko]

I like to think of it in time. A cigar might cost be $15 but if it lasts for 1-2 hours that's a pretty good investment versus other entertainment costs.

For example, I could drink much more than that dollar wise in 2 hours.

[Piligrim]

Well, I say... Cigars in Russia much more expensive because of taxes, for example Partagas D4 is about 14 Usd in online stores and 20 Usd in retail. And some people smoke every day. As for me, I buy my sticks abroad and prefer to smoke cigars I love, sometimes trying new

[Steens]

Pig,

Great post to follow Brandon's also excellent post. I have a question in response to the following bit:

What do you say to someone like myself who, as much as they've tried to explore, is new to the hobby and has not even exceeded one hundred cigars smoked? Many of those first cigars were much less educational as my capacity to discern increases with experience.

I make a concerted effort to maintain a conservative lifestyle. I read this forum for months before even making an account or buying a single Cuban. Though it's obvious that your post was not written with the novice enthusiast in mind I am nevertheless concerned by the expressed condemnation of spending any sum of money without sufficient knowledge.

Although I have not kept a log (but have begun one and intend to continue to track my experiences) I have smoked cigars from a fifteen Cuban marcas since the beginning of this year. Always with the intention of contrasting with my reading and learning, I have done my best to identify flavor profiles and construction quality in order to understand what makes a good cigar. I will leave out aged specimen since (especially given the truth to Brandon's point that to seek them does not seem economical, leaving me to slowly collect with determination, modesty and patience for the future) I have had limited exposure to them and can count the number of sticks with over three years to them I've had on one hand; the oldest of which being approximately seven years (review in my signature).

I am pleased to say that I have been quite intelligent about my purchases thus far and have remained rational while learning and enjoying a good deal of Cuban cigars. I still have much to do/go in order to improve my habits to increase appreciation and refine my palate. As much as I read, it will take some time for understanding and confidence to become second nature in this practice. It's easy for me to become irritated with myself while perusing a box of cigars and knowing that I've still little command of identifying the best of the bunch (for the purposes of determining which to age, which to smoke, and which to gift). To add insult to injury, that type of selection only occurs after you've already spent the money on the box! At least I'm buying affordably.

Still, I echo, what've you to say? Finally, to touch upon previous sentiments left by Brandon – is there hope for a new member to make a lifelong friend of this avocation? Or should I start saving now for aged cigars and drastically redirect focus to other devotions?

mncz

I've been where you are now done what you are doing and are still learning and loving it and are now enjoying cigars young (2 yrs + ) and older ( 5 yrs + ) i think you have answered your own question with this statement ( leaving me to slowly collect with determination, modesty and patience for the future)

[PigFish]

Excellent post.

Appreciation of cigars comes from ones palate and heart. Not from CA reviews or my own or even Piggys.

You are your own person. Go your own pace, purchase what you want without over thinking it. If that is NC's then who in the world can criticize you?

No one has your palate or circumstances. No one can question what you do or how/why you do it.

I would have posted this myself if some a-hole did not post it about me (us) already… -LOL

How much more can I add?

We are in different positions. One of us is a novice and the other experienced. While this is pure theory (empirical in nature) cigar smokers mature. You may find that what you liked in the beginning is not what you settle on as a "life cigar." You may not stick with cigar smoking at all. Some people ebb and tide into hobby interests looking for a place to crash… If you look at FoH as an example, it is a revolving door. Even many "old fart" cigar smokers lose interest and move on.

My path brought be though the [cigar] age of guru emulation and worship. I vehemently deny the theory and idea of golden tongued gurus! I am not one certainly! While I use stronger language than Rob does, we are simply reading the terrain of the same path… There is no right choice for everyone. The best choice is try cigars, and buy the ones that you like even if "I" say that they suck!

YOU NEED EXPERIENCE THAT YOU WILL ONLY GET FROM SMOKING CIGARS. YOU MUST BUY UNKNOWN CIGARS TO GET THAT EXPERIENCE! My only suggesting here is that you spend your money first on regular production cigars that you can buy in greater quantity for a better sample size. By buying regular production, you also have a choice to modestly buy some cigars (ones that have a proven taste performance to you) for your smoking future.

You know mate… I could smoke just one size and brand of cigar and be happy! There is sufficient variation in cigars generally, that I could own a pile of coronas and never be unhappy going to get another coronas! You should understand that I am not typical. I am an 'end of the spectrum' smoker. Experience comes from every cigar. I don't need to buy an endless chain of 'what is new' to define my tastes.

I don't (for example) expect people to blindly follow me! Hell, I am just happy being read and questioned! I specifically warn them against the practice of following without question. The core of my writing is about opening your mind to understand yourself as the only expert. No amount of expert opinion will convince me that the RASS is an inherently good cigar! (Ducking bottles and rotten tomatoes thrown at me now!!!) I have spent years writing about trying petit coronas instead of robustos. I have tried to get folks to try coronas and lonsdales rather than pyramides EL's… That day is gone as are those cigars… I don't comment much on recommendations anymore. As the moon follows me wherever I go, it appears that as I encourage people to try these cigars, Tabacuba stops making them!

The mindset that cigars are constant, that there are profiles, that there are bad years, vacuum periods, etc., etc… are just premises that I reject. I have spent years and thousands of dollars trying to understand why some expert said that 'cigar "A"' is the best cigar in the world just to find out he was wrong about it. I would buy box after box, trying to like them and see what I was missing… I found the same result, I did not like them. I learned the hard way! I recommend that you spend your money more wisely than I did. If you have the tastes for the crowd follow them. If not, find your own path.

Some will mislead you out of their own ignorance with no malice. Some will mislead you to elevate themselves, to swindle you or sell you something. You know this about life in general; cigars are no different.

There was a day when I could have pointed you in different directions to expand your smoking portfolio beyond the 'group think' favorites. I can no longer do that, because Tabacuba has taken those choices away from you! In some ways, your ability to mature as a smoker has been robbed from you (just my opinion) by a company that over produces the mediocre flavor instead of producing a diverse product line that would allow more choice and allowing you to lead your own maturation and evolution.

What should you do? Smoke through the standard catalogue and see if there are correlations to what you like. Look outside the box! Forget brands, boxes and costs as a means to compare. Stop, or don't start looking for what others say exists. Look for your own enjoyment and follow our own path.

Educate yourself about Tabacuba and how cigars are made. There are no brands! There is a single nationalized cigar company that makes just about any cigar in just about any factory (exceptions, probably).

Some of my axioms:

Cost has nothing to do with taste.

Bigger is not better.

Nothing fixes (age) a poorly made cigar.

Age does not make a cigar 'good.'

A good cigar is better than an 'aged' cigar.

The more they make, the worse they get!

More filler does not mean more taste.

Don't blame yourself because the Cubans made a bad cigar!

Water content is the only thing you can change after a cigar has been made.

The best cigar in the world is not yet made!

Any box, of any brand, of any size could be the best cigar you ever smoked.

Cigars are individuals.

You can only smoke a cigar once!

One sample is not a good judge.

Chasing golden goose cigars is a waste of resources.

What you will pay for a cigar should be empirical, not based on, "new, fancy, large, limited, boxes, bands, marketing."

Buy what you like… not what Piggy likes.

Try to find 'catalogue cigars' regular production that you can buy modestly and hold for future smoking.

Don't get pulled in 'expensive' directions that damage your smoking budget. Don't be ashamed because you like Rafael Gonzalez and not Montecristos! If one is better than the other, forget the box and band… They are all rolled by the same folks anyway with the very same tobacco!

I think that the regular production catalogue has been really damaged and I am pretty unhappy about it. I am "doom and gloom" with regards to Tabacuba! While I am not alone, I am a single voice; don't take my opinion to heart. Understand that we are different; not better or worse, just different!

Chin up babe… great cigars are still being made. Trot off the path a little and learn to read the terrain for yourself!

If you find on your own that the $30 cigars are the best ones, buy them! Stop reading my bashing of them and write off my tastes… I cannot tell you what a good cigar is. I can only tell you of my experiences, wins and losses, my tastes. The rest is up to you.

Cheers, Ray

[fabes]

I would have posted this myself if some a-hole did not post it about me (us) already -LOL

How much more can I add?

We are in different positions. One of us is a novice and the other experienced. While this is pure theory (empirical in nature) cigar smokers mature. You may find that what you liked in the beginning is not what you settle on as a "life cigar." You may not stick with cigar smoking at all. Some people ebb and tide into hobby interests looking for a place to crash If you look at FoH as an example, it is a revolving door. Even many "old fart" cigar smokers lose interest and move on.

My path brought be though the [cigar] age of guru emulation and worship. I vehemently deny the theory and idea of golden tongued gurus! I am not one certainly! While I use stronger language than Rob does, we are simply reading the terrain of the same path There is no right choice for everyone. The best choice is try cigars, and buy the ones that you like even if "I" say that they suck!

YOU NEED EXPERIENCE THAT YOU WILL ONLY GET FROM SMOKING CIGARS. YOU MUST BUY UNKNOWN CIGARS TO GET THAT EXPERIENCE! My only suggesting here is that you spend your money first on regular production cigars that you can buy in greater quantity for a better sample size. By buying regular production, you also have a choice to modestly buy some cigars (ones that have a proven taste performance to you) for your smoking future.

You know mate I could smoke just one size and brand of cigar and be happy! There is sufficient variation in cigars generally, that I could own a pile of coronas and never be unhappy going to get another coronas! You should understand that I am not typical. I am an 'end of the spectrum' smoker. Experience comes from every cigar. I don't need to buy an endless chain of 'what is new' to define my tastes.

I don't (for example) expect people to blindly follow me! Hell, I am just happy being read and questioned! I specifically warn them against the practice of following without question. The core of my writing is about opening your mind to understand yourself as the only expert. No amount of expert opinion will convince me that the RASS is an inherently good cigar! (Ducking bottles and rotten tomatoes thrown at me now!!!) I have spent years writing about trying petit coronas instead of robustos. I have tried to get folks to try coronas and lonsdales rather than pyramides EL's That day is gone as are those cigars I don't comment much on recommendations anymore. As the moon follows me wherever I go, it appears that as I encourage people to try these cigars, Tabacuba stops making them!

The mindset that cigars are constant, that there are profiles, that there are bad years, vacuum periods, etc., etc are just premises that I reject. I have spent years and thousands of dollars trying to understand why some expert said that 'cigar "A"' is the best cigar in the world just to find out he was wrong about it. I would buy box after box, trying to like them and see what I was missing I found the same result, I did not like them. I learned the hard way! I recommend that you spend your money more wisely than I did. If you have the tastes for the crowd follow them. If not, find your own path.

Some will mislead you out of their own ignorance with no malice. Some will mislead you to elevate themselves, to swindle you or sell you something. You know this about life in general; cigars are no different.

There was a day when I could have pointed you in different directions to expand your smoking portfolio beyond the 'group think' favorites. I can no longer do that, because Tabacuba has taken those choices away from you! In some ways, your ability to mature as a smoker has been robbed from you (just my opinion) by a company that over produces the mediocre flavor instead of producing a diverse product line that would allow more choice and allowing you to lead your own maturation and evolution.

What should you do? Smoke through the standard catalogue and see if there are correlations to what you like. Look outside the box! Forget brands, boxes and costs as a means to compare. Stop, or don't start looking for what others say exists. Look for your own enjoyment and follow our own path.

Educate yourself about Tabacuba and how cigars are made. There are no brands! There is a single nationalized cigar company that makes just about any cigar in just about any factory (exceptions, probably).

Some of my axioms:

Cost has nothing to do with taste.

Bigger is not better.

Nothing fixes (age) a poorly made cigar.

Age does not make a cigar 'good.'

A good cigar is better than an 'aged' cigar.

The more they make, the worse they get!

More filler does not mean more taste.

Don't blame yourself because the Cubans made a bad cigar!

Water content is the only thing you can change after a cigar has been made.

The best cigar in the world is not yet made!

Any box, of any brand, of any size could be the best cigar you ever smoked.

Cigars are individuals.

You can only smoke a cigar once!

One sample is not a good judge.

Chasing golden goose cigars is a waste of resources.

What you will pay for a cigar should be empirical, not based on, "new, fancy, large, limited, boxes, bands, marketing."

Buy what you like not what Piggy likes.

Try to find 'catalogue cigars' regular production that you can buy modestly and hold for future smoking.

Don't get pulled in 'expensive' directions that damage your smoking budget. Don't be ashamed because you like Rafael Gonzalez and not Montecristos! If one is better than the other, forget the box and band They are all rolled by the same folks anyway with the very same tobacco!

I think that the regular production catalogue has been really damaged and I am pretty unhappy about it. I am "doom and gloom" with regards to Tabacuba! While I am not alone, I am a single voice; don't take my opinion to heart. Understand that we are different; not better or worse, just different!

Chin up babe great cigars are still being made. Trot off the path a little and learn to read the terrain for yourself!

If you find on your own that the $30 cigars are the best ones, buy them! Stop reading my bashing of them and write off my tastes I cannot tell you what a good cigar is. I can only tell you of my experiences, wins and losses, my tastes. The rest is up to you.

Cheers, Ray

Well done. Post of the year!

[RijkdeGooier]

Excellent post by Piggy - I may add one simple rule of thumb - establish a baseline cost of a Doble Corona and a Mareva - draw a line and judge the other formats accordingly in terms of price/weight. Not by their bands

[mncz]

Thanks everyone; especially Ray. To be read is hard to beat save for being engaged! I concur that your reply is high among my favorite posts on this forum and shall keep to following such good advice as has been shared here.

[PigFish]

Thanks everyone; especially Ray. To be read is hard to beat save for being engaged! I concur that your reply is high among my favorite posts on this forum and shall keep to following such good advice as has been shared here.

Thanks mate, cheers!

Thank you Habana Mike! It is the thread starter that inspires the membership think and discuss. Thank him certainly. His thoughts and theories inspired me (and others) to write about our own.

Inspiration is the important missing part to your quote. Inspiration, being read and engaged! Just my 2 cts… -R

[Piligrim]

More about prices and trying something: I've bought pre-embargo Cuban cigars to try them with members of my cigarclub who can pay a lot. Some of them are not cigar smokers. But this is opportunity for them to tell everyone they had old vintage cigars and drinks.

[BonVivant]

A Great Cohiba Esplendido will always beat a terrible Cohiba Esplendido

A Great PSD4 will always beat a terrible PSD4

A Great Montecristo Double Edmundo will always beat a terrible Montecristo Double Edmundo

and so on and on...

Price is relative, when it concerns quality

[canadianbeaver]

Our cigar collection is based on favorites and also investment. We do not buy cigars in Canada because the 200-300% extra is outrageous.

The good news is cigars are an asset that is immediately able to be converted into cash if you need it.

Last point, we feel there are only so many cigars we can smoke in our lifetime, so we want the very best each time. Whether it is a $10 one or a $30 one, we just try and buy the best ones out there from only sources we trust.

[mk05]

I know what I like now, and unfortunately, I will have to pay for it. I was too late.

[leftimatic]

Pig,

Great post to follow Brandon's also excellent post. I have a question in response to the following bit:

What do you say to someone like myself who, as much as they've tried to explore, is new to the hobby and has not even exceeded one hundred cigars smoked? Many of those first cigars were much less educational as my capacity to discern increases with experience.

I make a concerted effort to maintain a conservative lifestyle. I read this forum for months before even making an account or buying a single Cuban. Though it's obvious that your post was not written with the novice enthusiast in mind I am nevertheless concerned by the expressed condemnation of spending any sum of money without sufficient knowledge.

Although I have not kept a log (but have begun one and intend to continue to track my experiences) I have smoked cigars from a fifteen Cuban marcas since the beginning of this year. Always with the intention of contrasting with my reading and learning, I have done my best to identify flavor profiles and construction quality in order to understand what makes a good cigar. I will leave out aged specimen since (especially given the truth to Brandon's point that to seek them does not seem economical, leaving me to slowly collect with determination, modesty and patience for the future) I have had limited exposure to them and can count the number of sticks with over three years to them I've had on one hand; the oldest of which being approximately seven years (review in my signature).

I am pleased to say that I have been quite intelligent about my purchases thus far and have remained rational while learning and enjoying a good deal of Cuban cigars. I still have much to do/go in order to improve my habits to increase appreciation and refine my palate. As much as I read, it will take some time for understanding and confidence to become second nature in this practice. It's easy for me to become irritated with myself while perusing a box of cigars and knowing that I've still little command of identifying the best of the bunch (for the purposes of determining which to age, which to smoke, and which to gift). To add insult to injury, that type of selection only occurs after you've already spent the money on the box! At least I'm buying affordably.

Still, I echo, what've you to say? Finally, to touch upon previous sentiments left by Brandon – is there hope for a new member to make a lifelong friend of this avocation? Or should I start saving now for aged cigars and drastically redirect focus to other devotions?

Excellent post.

Appreciation of cigars comes from ones palate and heart. Not from CA reviews or my own or even Piggys.

You are your own person. Go your own pace, purchase what you want without over thinking it. If that is NC's then who in the world can criticize you?

No one has your palate or circumstances. No one can question what you do or how/why you do it.

I have only been smoking cigars for about two years now and I haven't smoked a CC in about a year and a half and after reading some posts I tend to feel like a bit of a no brain hick. But now I feel a bit more at ease. Thanks fellas.

I know what I like even if I cant explain why and I don't mind paying to a certain degree. I am slowly building up a CC collection and waiting out what I hope to be an ample resting time. But for the most part I will stick to the NC's I hate to say it but I can rely on consistent construction and taste for the most part and they are quite a bit cheaper. Under 6bucks for premiums when you buy them by the box.

Oh I wont give up on my quest for CC's but I just do it slow and steady. Read reviews, buy some singles, join in on the LFTW (if it continues) See what I enjoy and go from there.

Is the cost either way justifiable? Well I only smoke 2 or 3 a week well maybe 4, but its still cheaper than a 2 pack habit and way easier on the heart and lungs. Plus I think I look cooler. Now if you'll excuse me I have chickens to feed, wood to chop and a gate to fix.

Cheers

[tippexx]

- you wouldn't feel bad about smoking any cigar at that price, right?

I don't feel bad about it Mike and where I can afford it will pay the price.

But when you think about it logically, the cost of any cigar .... from agriculture, through processing, selection and eventually handwork should be about the same as the cost of an artisan loaf of bread. The steps from seed to final product are about the same, the difference being bread's more reliable.

[leftimatic]

I would have posted this myself if some a-hole did not post it about me (us) already… -LOL

How much more can I add?

We are in different positions. One of us is a novice and the other experienced. While this is pure theory (empirical in nature) cigar smokers mature. You may find that what you liked in the beginning is not what you settle on as a "life cigar." You may not stick with cigar smoking at all. Some people ebb and tide into hobby interests looking for a place to crash… If you look at FoH as an example, it is a revolving door. Even many "old fart" cigar smokers lose interest and move on.

My path brought be though the [cigar] age of guru emulation and worship. I vehemently deny the theory and idea of golden tongued gurus! I am not one certainly! While I use stronger language than Rob does, we are simply reading the terrain of the same path… There is no right choice for everyone. The best choice is try cigars, and buy the ones that you like even if "I" say that they suck!

YOU NEED EXPERIENCE THAT YOU WILL ONLY GET FROM SMOKING CIGARS. YOU MUST BUY UNKNOWN CIGARS TO GET THAT EXPERIENCE! My only suggesting here is that you spend your money first on regular production cigars that you can buy in greater quantity for a better sample size. By buying regular production, you also have a choice to modestly buy some cigars (ones that have a proven taste performance to you) for your smoking future.

You know mate… I could smoke just one size and brand of cigar and be happy! There is sufficient variation in cigars generally, that I could own a pile of coronas and never be unhappy going to get another coronas! You should understand that I am not typical. I am an 'end of the spectrum' smoker. Experience comes from every cigar. I don't need to buy an endless chain of 'what is new' to define my tastes.

I don't (for example) expect people to blindly follow me! Hell, I am just happy being read and questioned! I specifically warn them against the practice of following without question. The core of my writing is about opening your mind to understand yourself as the only expert. No amount of expert opinion will convince me that the RASS is an inherently good cigar! (Ducking bottles and rotten tomatoes thrown at me now!!!) I have spent years writing about trying petit coronas instead of robustos. I have tried to get folks to try coronas and lonsdales rather than pyramides EL's… That day is gone as are those cigars… I don't comment much on recommendations anymore. As the moon follows me wherever I go, it appears that as I encourage people to try these cigars, Tabacuba stops making them!

The mindset that cigars are constant, that there are profiles, that there are bad years, vacuum periods, etc., etc… are just premises that I reject. I have spent years and thousands of dollars trying to understand why some expert said that 'cigar "A"' is the best cigar in the world just to find out he was wrong about it. I would buy box after box, trying to like them and see what I was missing… I found the same result, I did not like them. I learned the hard way! I recommend that you spend your money more wisely than I did. If you have the tastes for the crowd follow them. If not, find your own path.

Some will mislead you out of their own ignorance with no malice. Some will mislead you to elevate themselves, to swindle you or sell you something. You know this about life in general; cigars are no different.

There was a day when I could have pointed you in different directions to expand your smoking portfolio beyond the 'group think' favorites. I can no longer do that, because Tabacuba has taken those choices away from you! In some ways, your ability to mature as a smoker has been robbed from you (just my opinion) by a company that over produces the mediocre flavor instead of producing a diverse product line that would allow more choice and allowing you to lead your own maturation and evolution.

What should you do? Smoke through the standard catalogue and see if there are correlations to what you like. Look outside the box! Forget brands, boxes and costs as a means to compare. Stop, or don't start looking for what others say exists. Look for your own enjoyment and follow our own path.

Educate yourself about Tabacuba and how cigars are made. There are no brands! There is a single nationalized cigar company that makes just about any cigar in just about any factory (exceptions, probably).

Some of my axioms:

Cost has nothing to do with taste.

Bigger is not better.

Nothing fixes (age) a poorly made cigar.

Age does not make a cigar 'good.'

A good cigar is better than an 'aged' cigar.

The more they make, the worse they get!

More filler does not mean more taste.

Don't blame yourself because the Cubans made a bad cigar!

Water content is the only thing you can change after a cigar has been made.

The best cigar in the world is not yet made!

Any box, of any brand, of any size could be the best cigar you ever smoked.

Cigars are individuals.

You can only smoke a cigar once!

One sample is not a good judge.

Chasing golden goose cigars is a waste of resources.

What you will pay for a cigar should be empirical, not based on, "new, fancy, large, limited, boxes, bands, marketing."

Buy what you like… not what Piggy likes.

Try to find 'catalogue cigars' regular production that you can buy modestly and hold for future smoking.

Don't get pulled in 'expensive' directions that damage your smoking budget. Don't be ashamed because you like Rafael Gonzalez and not Montecristos! If one is better than the other, forget the box and band… They are all rolled by the same folks anyway with the very same tobacco!

I think that the regular production catalogue has been really damaged and I am pretty unhappy about it. I am "doom and gloom" with regards to Tabacuba! While I am not alone, I am a single voice; don't take my opinion to heart. Understand that we are different; not better or worse, just different!

Chin up babe… great cigars are still being made. Trot off the path a little and learn to read the terrain for yourself!

If you find on your own that the $30 cigars are the best ones, buy them! Stop reading my bashing of them and write off my tastes… I cannot tell you what a good cigar is. I can only tell you of my experiences, wins and losses, my tastes. The rest is up to you.

Cheers, Ray

Wow. Don't know how I missed this first time I read post. Great stuff. Um Ray do you have a book out? If so where does one get his hands on it?

[PigFish]

Wow. Don't know how I missed this first time I read post. Great stuff. Um Ray do you have a book out? If so where does one get his hands on it?

First mate i want to thank you for the complement.

FoH is my (and others) book!

I own a domain name OpenSourceCigar.com, but have never done anything with it. My hopes were once, to fill it with anecdotal cigar information but never really had the time to put it together. I may turn it into a humidor science spot, but that is all wishful thinking.

Somehow books are used to define 'experts.' While I do consider myself and expert on controlled humidor design and function, when it comes to cigars, I am like the old codger down the street that is affectionally known as Mr. Knowitall. You drive your car that has a misfire down to his house, he grumbles, looks at the motor and says, "gotta' vacuum leak, kid. Get some starting fluid, spray a little here and there, wait till the engine revs and you got it. Replace the hose, you're done!" He walks back up his drive holding his pants up with one hand…

That's me!

There are a lot of people on this site with far more detailed knowledge of Cuba, factories, tobacco types, blends, history and all the wonderful stuff that makes reading on this site worth while. I don't know much of that really. I am not really an expert on cigars. I am a guy who has smoked a few, is rather opinionated, and has boiled his experience down to simple views. With the exception to humidor science, pretty much all my data on cigars is simple, empirical and anecdotal information. I will take a simple solution to a problem over that of a complex one anytime.

There are experts in many things. But, IMHO, there are no 'expert' smokers! It is truly individual, taste and experience driven and 100% individual. You are your own best expert!

Cheers -Ray

[amart]

Interesting math Don't think I can use it to justify to myself tohugh :/

[1LegLance]

Oh the glory days that were the 90's for me....and how I remember guys talking about the 70's back then

I thought we had it great, they thought everything sucked.

Then came 1999-2001 and everything did seem to suck!

Now we are in a new glory day for those who don't know better and life sucks for those of us who remember.

I am 100% in agreement with PigFish-Ray and have traveled the full circle/cycle of cigar smoking...

Started out not knowing anything but being lucky to know guys who would share/trade/sell me sticks one at a time so I could keep from investing in boxes that were

Got into the "greats" in the 90's that we no longer see....learned I have crap for tastebuds so really I don't enjoy a $10 cigar twice as much as a $5 cigar. Maybe 75% but once I cross over $12 my cheap bastard gene kicks in

So I feel lucky that there are so many great sticks in the Petite Corona and Minuto world and yet I cry all the time about what we have lost in those same sizes.

Not to mention Lonsdales....

Punch RS11, Black Prince

St Luis Rey PC's

Oh if I keep typing I think I will cry...

Try a bunch, share a bunch to save money and tell US what you enjoy

[rhcolbert]

I used to have this rule of NO MORE than 10$usd a stick period. I broke away rom that a bit and just go for brands I like. It was a great rule as a newb to habanos. It kept me from getting sucked into buying cohibas just for the name and I sampled a lot of lesser hyped brands. I now feel like I have a wide love for all habanos from this rule. I also feel like I appreciate the nicer sticks from building my palette.