Chibearsv Posted April 22 Posted April 22 14 hours ago, ha_banos said: Excellent. No more 18 year olds in the sampling rooms. Noisy spotty little buggers. Get em out. And 12 years from now, nobody under 30 will be allowed in. 4
JohnS Posted May 2 Posted May 2 United Kingdom’s Generational Tobacco Ban Officially Becomes Law A drastic law prohibits anyone born after New Year’s Day, 2009 to buy tobacco May 1, 2026 - By Garrett Rutledge Photo/Alex Segre/Alamy Stock Photo Parliament recently approved the United Kingdom’s landmark Tobacco and Vapes bill. This week, the legislation officially became law after receiving royal assent from King Charles III. The bill will make it illegal, in perpetuity, for anyone born after January 1, 2009 to buy tobacco products. Thus, everyone in the United Kingdom who is younger than 18 will never be legally permitted to purchase cigars or any tobacco product, even once they turn 18 years old (the legal age to purchase tobacco goods in the United Kingdom). The new generational ban goes into effect on January 1, 2027. The new regulations will apply to all countries in the United Kingdom, which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The legislation focuses on the sale of tobacco rather than the possession or usage. Individuals won’t be fined for smoking or possessing tobacco products, but they will be legally barred from buying these goods once they turn of age. Full Article: https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/united-kingdom-s-generational-tobacco-ban-officially-becomes-law
Popular Post ATGroom Posted May 2 Popular Post Posted May 2 It's hard to envision life in 2060, where a middle-aged man with three grown children, a senior partner in a law firm, walks into JJ Fox and gets told "sorry mate, you're only 51, you need to be 52 to shop here." It seems likely to me that this will be reversed at some point on an anti-discrimination equal rights type basis. Although the response to overturning may just be that tobacco is banned outright. 6 4
Fireball Posted May 2 Posted May 2 No one can argue the negative effects of cigarette smoking on individuals and society. It is more impactful when the cost of the health effects are carried by government funded healthcare. What is the solution to cigarettes? I don’t know. I do think this ban illustrates the significance in the US of the cigar industry win over the FDA. It separates premium cigars from tobacco products as a whole. Hopefully we see this thought process incorporated into some of these bans in the future.
Popular Post ha_banos Posted May 2 Popular Post Posted May 2 More British. That's what they are clearly doing. For the greater good of humanity. Stop being so small bloody minded. 5
Hammer Smokin' Posted May 2 Posted May 2 i trust those gross Zyn tobacco pouches I see discarded everywhere are also banned.
SirVantes Posted May 2 Posted May 2 18 hours ago, ATGroom said: It's hard to envision life in 2060, where a middle-aged man with three grown children, a senior partner in a law firm, walks into JJ Fox and gets told "sorry mate, you're only 51, you need to be 52 to shop here." It seems likely to me that this will be reversed at some point on an anti-discrimination equal rights type basis. Although the response to overturning may just be that tobacco is banned outright. My father was a lifelong civil servant. Civil servants got a pension, and a "gold card" that entitled them to free medical services at government hospitals. 3 years after he retired, the law changed so that there will be a co-payment element for the gold card i.e. no longer totally free, but still very, very cheap. "Sorry mate, you're only 63, you need to be 66 to get free health here". Laws change, age-tagged rights change. They can change in one direction, or the other e.g. lowering age of consent, or minimum age for [insert right to do whatever here]. I find it hard to see that as discriminatory in principle.
Popular Post Habanoschris Posted May 2 Popular Post Posted May 2 Environment will be ripe for black market activity. I think this is the future... 🤣 5 1 2
ha_banos Posted May 2 Posted May 2 4 hours ago, Habanoschris said: Environment will be ripe for black market activity. I think this is the future... 🤣 You know how many private cigar groups online there are in the UK already due to pricing and import risks? Loads. Sad thing is they peddle fake Cubans amongst their other wares too. Most of the cigars are muled in from abroad. Ali express accessories in there too. But they clearly provide a service! More so over time I guess! Those who travel to the continent regularly or have mules must be making a killing already. 4
Lucas Buck Posted May 2 Posted May 2 Anyone banned will have little trouble getting what they want. Civil disobedience is a time honored tradition. 3
Popular Post Ford2112 Posted May 2 Popular Post Posted May 2 Every British cop show has at least one episode of some smuggling dodgy fags into the country so now they can add dodgy cigars to the mix and wash it all down with some dodgy plonk!! 1 5
Kaptain Karl Posted May 2 Posted May 2 Winston is rolling in his grave right now. (For many reasons, this one in particular.) 4 1
cigaraholic Posted May 3 Posted May 3 On 3/13/2026 at 10:05 AM, BrightonCorgi said: Where have all the opium dens gone 😿? Lots of homes have dens🤗 1 1
Christophe Posted May 3 Posted May 3 On 3/14/2026 at 3:38 AM, Li Bai said: no official ever did anything to ban additives or whatever they put in modern cigarettes. I'm sorry but I have to set the record straight here. This lie propagated by politicized popular science, politicians and media, and just repeated by people ad nauseam. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I have experience with the industry and the scientific side of things. I'm not claiming their business strategy is a humanitarian one. But (possibly as a result) it is one of the most heavily regulated industries on the planet. You can not just willy-nilly add additives to tobacco or any tobacco-related product (including the filter, paper etc.) under Western legislation. While the FDA tends to be a bit sluggish and be a decade behind, it's actually prohibited under the EU's Tobacco Products Directive (TPD) to add any classified substance (potentially harmful chemical) to tobacco products. And I can tell you first-hand, government labs do sampling to check compliance. The EU has also strongly cracked down on any additive purported to make smoking more attractive (like menthol or flavorings). Ironically, for the latter there are still exceptions for non-cigarette tobacco applications, most notably pipe tobacco (90% of which is being sold as aromatized), flavored cigars and cigarillos, and shisha. So while these companies are always trying to find ways around it, there is actually a plethora of bans on additives to cigarettes (in the West), way more than apply to cigars, pipes or other smoking applications. In additional to a plethora of other legislation, such plain packaging, graphic health warnings, taxes, track-and-trace, ... that do (not yet) apply in full to cigars. Other users are also correct in pointing out that, while undoubtedly a fraction of people have been deterred from (continuing) smoking by flavor bans, plain packaging etc., this legislation has succeeded in making illicit trade so successful that it now accounts for e.g. almost 40% of the cigarettes in circulation in France*. I just took France as an example, but you'll see the same, or even worse trends, anywhere in the Western world. We should make it clear: this is not a one-off dumb policy mistake or unforeseen externality. It's policy upon policy built over decades, of which the effects were observed time and time again**. So when they say "the UK will have the first 100%-smoke free generation" , I say "the UK will have the first 100% illicit tobacco products generation". * A portion of illicit trade is basically just contraband smuggled across the border (hopefully from neighboring European countries with similar legislation). The rest is actually illegal cigarettes/vapes etc. (stuff made in underground cigarette factories in Europe, or imported from elsewhere). Needless to say the latter don't really pay attention to what additives are and aren't allowed under Western legislation. I can tell you the stuff you find in there makes the floor scrapings you may find in a fake Cuban pale by comparison. ** We should remember we're talking in terms of decades here, but governments have been trying to ban tobacco since shortly after the Spanish brought it back from the New World. James I put a 4000% tax on tobacco in 1604. 1 1
Christophe Posted May 3 Posted May 3 On 4/22/2026 at 10:08 PM, Hammer Smokin' said: Yes, I understand how black markets work. But I also understand how the ease of accessing vapes makes it easier for young people to get addicted. There are more kids vaping today than smoking back in the 80s and 90s. Something needs to change. Kids in the Low Countries where I live are vaping more now than they did prior to the flavor- and disposables-ban. And as you point out, in turn they vape more than they smoked before. The ease of accessing vapes additionally, is not coming from the traditional tobacco-industry supplying B&M's (because again, most flavored or disposable vapes are already illegal, as is selling to minors) but from literal dealers who you DM on Snapchat and just sell you Shenzen-manufactured vapes in whatever shape or flavor you want from the back of their scooter. I have children myself, but quite obviously this policy is having the opposite of the stated desired effect. in which case one should ask, how good is the policy? By the way, it's getting even worse, they're moving from flavored vapes (which were already banned) to synthetic THC-vapes (obviously also illegal). 1
Li Bai Posted May 3 Posted May 3 2 hours ago, Christophe said: I'm sorry but I have to set the record straight here. This lie propagated by politicized popular science, politicians and media, and just repeated by people ad nauseam. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I have experience with the industry and the science. I'm not claiming their business strategy is a humanitarian one. But it is one of the most heavily regulated industries on the planet. You can not just willy-nilly add additives to tobacco or any tobacco-related product (including the filter, paper etc.) under Western legislation. While the FDA tends to be a bit sluggish and be a decade behind, it's actually prohibited under the EU's Tobacco Products Directive (TPD) to add any classified substance (potentially harmful chemical) to tobacco products. And I can tell you first-hand, government labs do sampling to check compliance. The EU has also strongly cracked down on any additive purported to make smoking more attractive (like menthol or flavorings). Ironically, for the latter there are still exceptions for non-cigarette tobacco applications, most notably pipe tobacco (90% of which is being sold as aromatized), flavored cigars and cigarillos, and shisha. So there is actually a plethora of bans on additives to cigarettes in the West, way more than apply to cigars, pipes or other smoking applications. In additional to a plethora of other legislation, such plain packaging, graphic health warnings, taxes, track-and-trace, ... that do (not yet) apply in full to cigars. Other users are also correct in pointing out that, while undoubtedly a fraction of people have been deterred from (continuing) smoking by flavor bans, plain packaging etc., this legislation has succeeded in making illicit trade so successful that it now accounts for e.g. almost 40% of the cigarettes in circulation in France*. I just took France as an example, but you'll see the same, or even worse trends, anywhere in the Western world. We should make it clear: this is not a one-off dumb policy mistake or unforeseen externality. It's policy upon policy built over decades, of which the effects were observed time and time again**. So when they say "the UK will have the first 100%-smoke free generation" , I say "the UK will have the first 100% illicit tobacco products generation". * A portion of illicit trade is basically just contraband smuggled across the border (hopefully from neighboring European countries with similar legislation). The rest is actually illegal cigarettes/vapes etc. (stuff made in underground cigarette factories in Europe, or imported from elsewhere). Needless to say the latter don't really pay attention to what additives are and aren't allowed under Western legislation. I can tell you the stuff you find in there makes the floor scrapings you may find in a fake Cuban pale by comparison. ** We should remember we're talking in terms of decades here, but governments have been trying to ban tobacco since shortly after the Spanish brought it back from the New World. James I put a 4000% tax on tobacco in 1604. And you did well! You're absolutely right and my statement wasn't clear to say the least. What I meant is that to my knowledge, there was never a NO ADDITIVES ALLOWED policy implemented. There are lots of food additives that were allowed 30 years ago that we know now to be harmful and still lots of them are used today even though there are big suspicions around them. There are lots of regulation measures in the EU for sure but, imho, the industry is still ahead of it and it will remain the case until no additives are allowed for good. 3
JohnnyO Posted May 4 Posted May 4 On 4/22/2026 at 8:08 AM, Hammer Smokin' said: While I don't have kids, I do think about the future. Removing children's ability to smoke in the future is healthy. Just like removing their ability to be on Social Media before a certain age. While I appreciate I'm in the minority here, and rightfully so (a cigar board), I believe this is a good move, and would like to see Canada move towards the same. Yes, I understand how black markets work. But I also understand how the ease of accessing vapes makes it easier for young people to get addicted. There are more kids vaping today than smoking back in the 80s and 90s. Something needs to change. "Oh, the bike gangs stopped selling fentanyl and crystal meth. That's just not profitable. They moved on to a more lucrative market, Cuban cigars" 1
Li Bai Posted May 4 Posted May 4 13 hours ago, Christophe said: I'm sorry but I have to set the record straight here. This lie propagated by politicized popular science, politicians and media, and just repeated by people ad nauseam. I don't smoke cigarettes, but I have experience with the industry and the scientific side of things. I'm not claiming their business strategy is a humanitarian one. But (possibly as a result) it is one of the most heavily regulated industries on the planet. You can not just willy-nilly add additives to tobacco or any tobacco-related product (including the filter, paper etc.) under Western legislation. While the FDA tends to be a bit sluggish and be a decade behind, it's actually prohibited under the EU's Tobacco Products Directive (TPD) to add any classified substance (potentially harmful chemical) to tobacco products. And I can tell you first-hand, government labs do sampling to check compliance. The EU has also strongly cracked down on any additive purported to make smoking more attractive (like menthol or flavorings). Ironically, for the latter there are still exceptions for non-cigarette tobacco applications, most notably pipe tobacco (90% of which is being sold as aromatized), flavored cigars and cigarillos, and shisha. So while these companies are always trying to find ways around it, there is actually a plethora of bans on additives to cigarettes (in the West), way more than apply to cigars, pipes or other smoking applications. In additional to a plethora of other legislation, such plain packaging, graphic health warnings, taxes, track-and-trace, ... that do (not yet) apply in full to cigars. Other users are also correct in pointing out that, while undoubtedly a fraction of people have been deterred from (continuing) smoking by flavor bans, plain packaging etc., this legislation has succeeded in making illicit trade so successful that it now accounts for e.g. almost 40% of the cigarettes in circulation in France*. I just took France as an example, but you'll see the same, or even worse trends, anywhere in the Western world. We should make it clear: this is not a one-off dumb policy mistake or unforeseen externality. It's policy upon policy built over decades, of which the effects were observed time and time again**. So when they say "the UK will have the first 100%-smoke free generation" , I say "the UK will have the first 100% illicit tobacco products generation". * A portion of illicit trade is basically just contraband smuggled across the border (hopefully from neighboring European countries with similar legislation). The rest is actually illegal cigarettes/vapes etc. (stuff made in underground cigarette factories in Europe, or imported from elsewhere). Needless to say the latter don't really pay attention to what additives are and aren't allowed under Western legislation. I can tell you the stuff you find in there makes the floor scrapings you may find in a fake Cuban pale by comparison. ** We should remember we're talking in terms of decades here, but governments have been trying to ban tobacco since shortly after the Spanish brought it back from the New World. James I put a 4000% tax on tobacco in 1604. Now that I have more time ahead, I'd like to go a bit deeper about additives in tobacco products. I've studied the subject quite a bit and although it's highly regulated like you said, there are fundamental flaws in the process from where I stand. They can't put anything they want in cigarettes, but given the products of the tobacco combustion are considered to be highly harmful, those of the combustion of additives are widely considered insignificant and there are little to no studies around them. Sugar is allowed, cocoa powder and vanillin are allowed in small quantities, both to enhance the flavor/make smoking more attractive and authorities consider them as food additives but what happens to them when the temperature rises above 800°C ? Propylen glycol and glycerol are often used together to make the smoke smoother and together they eventually lead to bigger puffs and a deeper penetration of the smoke in the lungs.... There are so many other questionnable additives still authorized today because of a lack of research on the impact of their combustion at very high temperature and of a "tobacco is already very bad anyway so they should all just quit" mentality, I couldn't list them all even if I wanted to. In France the ANSES is the agency in charge, any registered tobacco distributor has to disclose what's in their cigarettes before making them reach the market, the list is accessible on their website and you can check it out here if you want. If any of you do, you'll see that Drew Estate does use mineral oil on their Liga Privada cigars and even vinegar on their Bauhaus line 🤢 Long story short, the industry isn't free to use anything they want but there's still a lot of work to do around additives, my two cents... 4
Christophe Posted May 4 Posted May 4 5 hours ago, Li Bai said: Now that I have more time ahead, I'd like to go a bit deeper about additives in tobacco products. I've studied the subject quite a bit and although it's highly regulated like you said, there are fundamental flaws in the process from where I stand. They can't put anything they want in cigarettes, but given the products of the tobacco combustion are considered to be highly harmful, those of the combustion of additives are widely considered insignificant and there are little to no studies around them. Sugar is allowed, cocoa powder and vanillin are allowed in small quantities, both to enhance the flavor/make smoking more attractive and authorities consider them as food additives but what happens to them when the temperature rises above 800°C ? Propylen glycol and glycerol are often used together to make the smoke smoother and together they eventually lead to bigger puffs and a deeper penetration of the smoke in the lungs.... There are so many other questionnable additives still authorized today because of a lack of research on the impact of their combustion at very high temperature and of a "tobacco is already very bad anyway so they should all just quit" mentality, I couldn't list them all even if I wanted to. In France the ANSES is the agency in charge, any registered tobacco distributor has to disclose what's in their cigarettes before making them reach the market, the list is accessible on their website and you can check it out here if you want. If any of you do, you'll see that Drew Estate does use mineral oil on their Liga Privada cigars and even vinegar on their Bauhaus line 🤢 Long story short, the industry isn't free to use anything they want but there's still a lot of work to do around additives, my two cents... The way it works, in the EU at least, is substances are allowed until they are "classified". That encompasses potentially harmful chemicals, as well as ones like vitamins which may have health benefits (because they don't want tobacco companies to be able to make that claim). It also includes chemicals that can alter the flavor or appearance of the smoke or cigarette to make it more attractive. Stimulants are also banned. A specific exemption exists for chemicals which are deemed necessary to manufacture. Sugar for example is a flavor enhancer, but as you indicate allowed in some parts of the process (not in all, e.g. it's not allowed to sweeten filter tips, something quite common in the Middle-East and Asia). Glycol can indeed produce potentially harmful components when incompletely combusted, but is essential to the production of modern cigarette tobacco (where much of the aim is to produce as much smoke volume as possible from the lowest weight of tobacco). As mentioned, the big tobacco-companies try to innovate their way past these restrictions with novel products or slight variations on existing, banned, chemicals. However, the bans have become more encompassing (classifying entire groups of chemicals rather than specific molecules) and new tobacco applications which may not be subject to the existing regulation on initial launch (e.g. vapes, HNB, nicotine pouches) appear to spend less and less time on the regular market before getting hit with restrictions. The FDA works a little different. Basically, you can't change anything at all to the list of ingredients a cigarette can or must have, even if you want to e.g. eliminate an additive, without going trough a decade-long process. An example is TiO2. This is used to make the filter less glossy. It was banned in the EU in 2020, however the ban was retracted late 2025 because the study was flawed. In the meantime, all companies had already gotten rid of it in Europe, and in the US, they still hadn't changed any law in 2025. Not because they knew the study was flawed, just because they're that slow. Interesting info with regards to cigar additives. I had always figured that non-flavoured cigars were fairly additive free. 2
Li Bai Posted May 4 Posted May 4 59 minutes ago, Christophe said: Interesting info with regards to cigar additives. I had always figured that non-flavoured cigars were fairly additive free. Everything that's listed by the ANSES comes from the distributors, there also should be a list of the discrepancies the ANSES found through their own tests but it's been unavailable for years... I went through the whole list and that's all I could find on the premium cigars distributed in France. For some reason the Undercrown don't appear on that list (updated december 2024) but I've been avoiding them since I found that out... 1
JohnnyO Posted May 4 Posted May 4 10 hours ago, Li Bai said: Now that I have more time ahead, I'd like to go a bit deeper about additives in tobacco products. I've studied the subject quite a bit and although it's highly regulated like you said, there are fundamental flaws in the process from where I stand. They can't put anything they want in cigarettes, but given the products of the tobacco combustion are considered to be highly harmful, those of the combustion of additives are widely considered insignificant and there are little to no studies around them. Sugar is allowed, cocoa powder and vanillin are allowed in small quantities, both to enhance the flavor/make smoking more attractive and authorities consider them as food additives but what happens to them when the temperature rises above 800°C ? Propylen glycol and glycerol are often used together to make the smoke smoother and together they eventually lead to bigger puffs and a deeper penetration of the smoke in the lungs.... There are so many other questionnable additives still authorized today because of a lack of research on the impact of their combustion at very high temperature and of a "tobacco is already very bad anyway so they should all just quit" mentality, I couldn't list them all even if I wanted to. In France the ANSES is the agency in charge, any registered tobacco distributor has to disclose what's in their cigarettes before making them reach the market, the list is accessible on their website and you can check it out here if you want. If any of you do, you'll see that Drew Estate does use mineral oil on their Liga Privada cigars and even vinegar on their Bauhaus line 🤢 Long story short, the industry isn't free to use anything they want but there's still a lot of work to do around additives, my two cents... It has been an industry standard for NC cigars, a "tea" is brewed of scrap leaves and then mixed with mineral oil. After that, natural cigars are painted with the mix to give it a more maduro oily effect. Lew Rothman of JR cigars spoke of this 20+ years ago. John 1 1
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