MPs back smoking ban for those born after 2009

[Jaks93]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68824493.amp

MPs have backed a plan to ban anyone born after 2009 from buying cigarettes, effectively ensuring it will become law.

The measures, championed by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, survived despite opposition from several leading Tory figures - including two ex-PMs.

Health Secretary Victoria Atkins told MPs "there is no liberty in addiction" as she defended the plans.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill passed by 383 votes to 67.

Speaking in the House of Commons, Ms Atkins said the plan would create a "smoke free generation".

However, several Tory MPs, including former prime minister Liz Truss, voted against the bill, arguing it would limit personal freedom.

Last week, ex-prime minster Boris Johnson called the smoking ban "absolutely nuts" during a speech at a Conservative conference in Ottawa, Canada.

"When the party of Winston Churchill wants to ban cigars, donnez-moi un break as they say in Quebec, it's just mad," he said.

Conservative MPs were given a free vote on the bill, meaning they were not ordered to vote with the government. But full support by Labour's front bench ensured the measures passed.

There are still several more steps needed before it becomes law, such as votes in the House of Lords, but it is possible that the bill could now become law before the general election, expected in the second half of 2024.

Labour's shadow health and social secretary Wes Streeting accused Mr Sunak of "putting the bill at risk" by granting a free vote "because he is too weak to stand up to the Liz Truss-wing of his party".

"If we are privileged enough to form the next government, Labour will implement this ban, so young people today are even less likely to smoke than they are to vote Conservative," he added.

In total 57 Tory MPs voted against the bill, including Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch and Conservative Party Deputy Chair Jonathan Gullis.

Foreign Office minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan also signalled her opposition but ultimately abstained on the vote.

Lee Anderson, an ex-deputy chair of the Conservative Party who defected to Reform UK last month, also voted against the bill.

Mr Sunak used his conference speech in October of last year to unveil his plans to ban people born after 1 January 2009 from buying tobacco products.

'Free society'
The debate on Tuesday was MPs first chance to debate the legislation implementing the ban.

Ms Truss was one of the first to speak against the bill, telling the House of Commons it risked infantilising people.

"It is very important that until people have decision-making capability while they are growing up that we protect them but I think the whole idea that we can protect adults from themselves is hugely problematic."

Her concern was echoed by some of her fellow Conservative MPs.

Former immigration minister Robert Jenrick, tipped as a potential contender to run for the Tory leadership, also came out against the policy.

On social media he said he was against the bill because he "believes in personal freedom".

"I also believe in the principle of equality under the law. A phased ban of smoking would be an affront to that," he added.

Former minister Sir Jake Berry said he was more concerned about "the addiction of the government to telling people what to do" than he was about people addicted to nicotine.

"I want to live in a free society where I am free to make both good and bad decisions."

Ms Atkins said she understood their concerns about "banning things" but defended the bill arguing: "Nicotine robs people of their freedom to choose."

"The vast majority of smokers start when they are young, and three quarters say that if they could turn back the clock they would not have started."

Earlier in the day, England's chief medical officer Sir Chris Whitty said once people become addicted to smoking "their choice is taken away".

"When I was a junior doctor doing surgery I remember the tragedy of seeing people, whose legs had had to be cut off because of the smoking that had damaged their arteries, outside the hospital weeping as they lit up because they were trapped by addiction - that is not choice."

The bill also aims to make vapes less appealing to children, with new restrictions on flavours and packaging.

Trading standards officers would also get new powers to issue on-the-spot £100 fines to shops selling tobacco or vapes to children, with all the money raised going towards further enforcement.

Figures show that one in five children has tried vaping despite it being illegal for under-18s, while the number of children using vapes has tripled in the past three years.

[cnov]

"Including two PM's" - one of the nicest things to be said about Liz "pork markets" Truss and BoJo the clown.

Even as a cigar smoker, I don't think this is a terrible idea. Not sure it'll work but I don't see the harm in trying to ensure fewer kids smoke. There will no doubt be a lot of right wing backlash but they're the sorts that would argue until they're blue in the face that more guns are needed in order to stop gun crime. I can see it now, stop this barbaric draconian blockade to youth smoking by giving each child a pack of fags for their third birthday, they deserve the right to choose in our "free" society.

[Hammer Smokin']

The fact is, smoking (anything) is bad for a countries health care system. Any country with public healthcare will do everything in their power to reduce the number of smokers. In the end, smoking is bad for our health. 

[ha_banos]

8 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

The fact is, smoking (anything) is bad for a countries health care system. Any country with public healthcare will do everything in their power to reduce the number of smokers. In the end, smoking is bad for our health.

So is ultra processed and sugared food. I give up...I'm getting out.

[StogieLoki]

[MrBirdman]

I wouldn’t expect this to be overturned like in NZ because any Labour government will be on board, and by the time the Tories get back in I doubt anyone will want to revisit the issue. 

Especially sad given the rich history of cigar merchants in the U.K.

[Arabian]

Politicians know what’s better for you. 

[MagicalBikeRide]

Such a wild move. A particular shame when I think of all the great tobacconists in London and outside. Generations of history - gone in a single decision. 

[CaptainQuintero]

  I'm generally very against legislation over education. 

  Especially here it strikes me as strange: a PM who seemingly has done nothing for the benefit of the public good during his whole tenure suddenly throws this in the ring. It smacks me more of laying the groundwork to being able to discriminate for lifestyle reasons over access to healthcare, and the inevitable replacement of the NHS by private healthcare. It starts with this and when it's accepted it's very each to also say that people who smoke can't access the same level of healthcare as someone who doesn't smoke. The messaging is already being pushed about the tax burden of smokers. Then it's people who are overweight and consume sugary food/drinks, then it's people who consume alcohol etc and their tax burden on the healthcare system.

  I've seen nothing from this government that isn't about enriching friends and special interest groups at the sake of the general public, I don't think this is any different. It's just wrapped up in an emotive subject.

[Uwiik]

And I thought Sunak was a sensible person.

[chasy]

I struggle to understand the generally relaxing stance towards drug use but then a crack down on tobacco. There just isn’t consistency in any of this.

[helix]

Although smoking is a proven health hazard, another freedom is lost.

[sageman]

Any decision like this that sets a future precedent is scary. I think it was New Hampshire that banned smoking and driving as it’s a distraction. What about women doing their makeup? All distracting actions could be under fire  in NH, all unhealthy actions are under fire across the pond. The government is not good about giving power up once they have it.  

[Ford2112]

Once something gets taken away it's really difficult to get it back. Usually some special interest drives these draconian legislations for the masses. I'm surprised I'm allowed to breathe the air in California. I try and smoke cigars wherever I can as a statement. It doesn't seem to be working. 😂

[01Vert]

On 4/17/2024 at 9:10 AM, ha_banos said:

So is ultra processed and sugared food. I give up...I'm getting out.

Liquor, sugared drinks and processed food kill and cause medical issues much more than tobacco. Yet we let people balloon to 500lbs and drink in public.  

[Ford2112]

Draconian. "Hey we know better than you". I hate authority .

[Li Bai]

What strikes me the most is that no country has ever taken any REAL measure against the big tobacco companies, as if they don't even have a bit of responsibility in creating generations of cigarette smokers who just don't know how to quit.

I mean they don't even have to disclose all the additives they've been using for decades on the packaging and they're still allowed to use them although we know it's thanks to those if modern cigarettes have become the hardest drug to quit (recent studies proved it).

Officials all over the world only communicate on nicotine and how terrible and addictive it is but tell me one thing, how much nicotine is there in our beloved cigars? Much more, and we cigar smokers know very well that we can go days or weeks without lighting one up and without struggling. 

This is all BS.

[BrightonCorgi]

If they want to be serious. Outlaw tobacco in all forms (including cigars). Put tobacco in the same class of drugs as cocaine and heroin. The walking on eggshells approach is a farce. 

There is only one way to eradicate tobacco use and that is with heavy laws and incarceration.

[ha_banos]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

If they want to be serious. Outlaw tobacco in all forms (including cigars). Put tobacco in the same class of drugs as cocaine and heroin. The walking on eggshells approach is a farce. 

There is only one way to eradicate tobacco use and that is with heavy laws and incarceration.

Works for the hard drugs!

[Ford2112]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

There is only one way to eradicate tobacco use and that is with heavy laws and incarceration.

Prohibition didn't work with booze it won't work with drugs, or cigarettes, or gambling, or prostitution. Basically people are going to do these things anyway. If tobacco ever got banned I'd smoke my cigars like we smoked weed when I was a kid. That's another thing that kills me. I see people smoking dope like it's air in California, but heaven forbid if I enjoy a stogie. 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, ha_banos said:

Works for the hard drugs!

 

3 hours ago, Ford2112 said:

Prohibition didn't work with booze it won't work with drugs, or cigarettes, or gambling, or prostitution. Basically people are going to do these things anyway. If tobacco ever got banned I'd smoke my cigars like we smoked weed when I was a kid. That's another thing that kills me. I see people smoking dope like it's air in California but heaven forbid if I enjoy a stogie. 

Singapore doesn't have an illegal drug problem. Saudi Arabia doesn't have an illegal drug problem.

[Ford2112]

I think rather than caning people they should just be hung drawn and quartered for partaking in the vices they enjoy.

[Arabian]

It's trendy to hate on cigars, a few years from now people might look down on those who drive a V8 or any ICE car. I think Cigar companies should've spent more on lobbying and pressured, I mean influenced, decision makers.  

[MagicalBikeRide]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Singapore doesn't have an illegal drug problem. Saudi Arabia doesn't have an illegal drug problem.

Bunch of other problems all the same. Like trying to solve a rubix cube. Get one side sorted, but the rest is still in shite.

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

If they want to be serious. Outlaw tobacco in all forms (including cigars). Put tobacco in the same class of drugs as cocaine and heroin. The walking on eggshells approach is a farce. 

There is only one way to eradicate tobacco use and that is with heavy laws and incarceration.

As I read, this law goes 90% of the way here..? The bill includes all forms of tobacco. It will surely have killed off the UK cigar trade by the time my kids are grown up. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I don't agree on the tobacco laws or further restrictions. The world is hell bent on it. Just like it was with narcotics & the like.

If you want to really vanquish tobacco from any country it is as easy my examples of illegal drugs in Singapore or KSA.