Will you pay for authenticity check?

[Marco_011t556]

Not sure if it's suitable to post here..

For sure 90% of my CC are bought from FOH, 10% from collector or retailer. It comes out to my mind, is there any website/professional group helping us to do authenticity check by photos/videos and we can pay?

e.g. when I got a box from retail store, I post some photos to the authenticity check website, and some experienced professionals can verify for me, and I pay them some service charge.

So my question is: will anyone pay for such service? Will BR consider launching a new service? lol I'm good to pay ..say..by fixed amount or xx% of the cigar.

[Arabian]

NO

If I feel skeptical about purchasing any cigar from the start, I stop. You don't verify a Rolex when you buy it from AD.

[BrightonCorgi]

11 hours ago, Arabian said:

NO

If I feel skeptical about purchasing any cigar from the start, I stop. You don't verify a Rolex when you buy it from AD.

Totally!  "I need a soil test to see if these oranges are really from Florida as Market Basket advertises..."

[El Presidente]

11 hours ago, 011t556 said:

Not sure if it's suitable to post here..

For sure 90% of my CC are bought from FOH, 10% from collector or retailer. It comes out to my mind, is there any website/professional group helping us to do authenticity check by photos/videos and we can pay?

e.g. when I got a box from retail store, I post some photos to the authenticity check website, and some experienced professionals can verify for me, and I pay them some service charge.

So my question is: will anyone pay for such service? Will BR consider launching a new service? lol I'm good to pay ..say..by fixed amount or xx% of the cigar.

No, BR will not consider launching a new authenticating service 

Zero upside given risk/return. 

 

[Ford2112]

Never

[Chibearsv]

Hell for 10% I’ll give you my absolutely unconditional non-guaranteed opinion which may have no basis of accuracy 😁

[Chas.Alpha]

“I will truthfully say that I am lying to you.”

[cgoodrich]

I will volunteer myself for a no cost authentication test. Send me all you want authenticated. After rigorous quality tests, using only state of the art methods, I will provide an individual probability report of the origin of each cigar smoked…errrr, ummm, I mean tested. 😉

[Marco_011t556]

6 hours ago, cgoodrich said:

I will volunteer myself for a no cost authentication test. Send me all you want authenticated. After rigorous quality tests, using only state of the art methods, I will provide an individual probability report of the origin of each cigar smoked…errrr, ummm, I mean tested. 😉

Hahahahaha, smoke it. It's the best way to verify.

[SigmundChurchill]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:41 PM, 011t556 said:

Not sure if it's suitable to post here..

For sure 90% of my CC are bought from FOH, 10% from collector or retailer. It comes out to my mind, is there any website/professional group helping us to do authenticity check by photos/videos and we can pay?

e.g. when I got a box from retail store, I post some photos to the authenticity check website, and some experienced professionals can verify for me, and I pay them some service charge.

So my question is: will anyone pay for such service? Will BR consider launching a new service? lol I'm good to pay ..say..by fixed amount or xx% of the cigar.

You may be asking this question in the wrong place.  Most of the people answering you here could be the ones doing the authenticity checks, so of course they are not going to pay for somebody else to do them. It might be a better question for a FB group or some other, less knowledgeable arena.

That said, there are some really good fakes out there these days, with real bands on them, so pictures on the internet will not yield 100% results. Sometimes you just don't know until you taste the cigar.

[KarlJ]

I can’t speak for cigars, but I’ve collected ancient antiquities for decades. And authenticators are part of that community. And while there are some very reputable and highly experienced authenticators, you are still just paying for an opinion on some fancy paper. There’s been pieces that have passed top authenticators through scientific methods like thermal luminescence testing and have brought 6-7 figures at the drop of the hammer through premier auction houses like Sothebys and Christie’s. Only to be proven a fraud at a later date. Granted, I’m speaking of some very rare cases of elaborate forgery. But it’s happened. It also happens in Art and rare wine/spirits. Anything collectible really. Premier auction houses do an excellent job weeding out the frauds. But authenticators can be wrong, they’re human. There’s no absolute guarantees in life.  
A huge part of the antiquities trade exist outside the auction block. Private transactions, estate sales & private antiquities dealers. Believe it or not, even EBay. If you know your stuff. With such a large market, authenticators are everywhere. And for $50-100 bucks, or more, you’ll get a nice 8.5 x 11” glossy opinion paper with a nice picture, description and a disclosure to the effect of “in my opinion” or “in my experience” ect ect. It really has no legal weight. So the authenticity of your purchase is only as good as the guarantee of the seller.

Authenticators can be a good resource. And can even add value to a collection. I’ve even used them myself. Some people like that additional assurance when buying a collectible item. But at the end of the day, it’s still just a human opinion. It doesn’t replace personal education and experience. Ultimately, your ability to avoid frauds lies between your ears. That knowledge only comes with time and surrounding yourself with the right people. 
 

 
 

[Puros Y Vino]

On 3/13/2024 at 11:21 AM, KarlJ said:

I can’t speak for cigars, but I’ve collected ancient antiquities for decades. And authenticators are part of that community. And while there are some very reputable and highly experienced authenticators, you are still just paying for an opinion on some fancy paper. There’s been pieces that have passed top authenticators through scientific methods like thermal luminescence testing and have brought 6-7 figures at the drop of the hammer through premier auction houses like Sothebys and Christie’s. Only to be proven a fraud at a later date. Granted, I’m speaking of some very rare cases of elaborate forgery. But it’s happened. It also happens in Art and rare wine/spirits. Anything collectible really. Premier auction houses do an excellent job weeding out the frauds. But authenticators can be wrong, they’re human. There’s no absolute guarantees in life.  
A huge part of the antiquities trade exist outside the auction block. Private transactions, estate sales & private antiquities dealers. Believe it or not, even EBay. If you know your stuff. With such a large market, authenticators are everywhere. And for $50-100 bucks, or more, you’ll get a nice 8.5 x 11” glossy opinion paper with a nice picture, description and a disclosure to the effect of “in my opinion” or “in my experience” ect ect. It really has no legal weight. So the authenticity of your purchase is only as good as the guarantee of the seller.

Authenticators can be a good resource. And can even add value to a collection. I’ve even used them myself. Some people like that additional assurance when buying a collectible item. But at the end of the day, it’s still just a human opinion. It doesn’t replace personal education and experience. Ultimately, your ability to avoid frauds lies between your ears. That knowledge only comes with time and surrounding yourself with the right people. 

I'm intrigued. What kind of "collectible antiques" have you been collecting?

[BrightonCorgi]

Christie's turned down a friend's Picasso due to they had trouble authenticating it. They said it was authentic, but since they could verify it to their standards, it could not go to their auction. The painting was in his parents' estate and lived overlooking Central Park. They had plenty of other art that was auctioned. Perhaps another auction house would've listed it, but decided to put it in his living room instead.

I've bought port at auction that was labelled incorrect yet I knew what it really was and scored at a 10th of the price. Specific knowledge can really help!

[ATGroom]

People email me at CCW every day asking for opinions on boxes. Generally I'm happy to give it in an informal way. Donations are appreciated, but not strictly speaking required.

On occasion I have done a formal opinion letter on a serious box. The reports state from the outset that there is no absolute way to determine if a cigar is authentic and then go into  detail on the different factors I examined and whether there were any inconsistencies found that would indicate a fake. Generally I spend about five hours writing it up, so the fee is commensurate with that. You also need to find a way to get the box in my hands, which can be costly dependant on your location.

I've never actually done a report where the conclusion was that the cigars were authentic. People mainly want formal evidence of a fake so that they can claim a refund from a vendor / credit card company / insurance etc. I don't think a letter stating it was authentic for sale would be much use as any specialist cigar auction place would do their own authentication.

[KarlJ]

11 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

I'm intrigued. What kind of "collectible antiques" have you been collecting?

Ancient antiquities

North American stone, bone & pottery artifacts

South American pottery and stone artifacts. Colima culture, Aztec & Maya

Chinese Jade

Egyptian antiquities 

Mesopotamian and a little bit of holy land. 

[El Presidente]

18 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Christie's turned down a friend's Picasso due to they had trouble authenticating it. They said it was authentic, but since they could verify it to their standards, it could not go to their auction. 

That is fair play and the way it should be handled by the auction house. Nitpicking,  I probably would have said that it had a "high probability of being authentic but we cannot verify to our standards".  I know you weren't quoting. 

[Islandboy]

7 hours ago, KarlJ said:

Ancient antiquities

North American stone, bone & pottery artifacts

South American pottery and stone artifacts. Colima culture, Aztec & Maya

Chinese Jade

Egyptian antiquities 

Mesopotamian and a little bit of holy land. 

Wait a minute, Indiana’s about 30 miles south of Chicago...and your last name starts with a J. 

[BrightonCorgi]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

That is fair play and the way it should be handled by the auction house. Nitpicking,  I probably would have said that it had a "high probability of being authentic but we cannot verify to our standards".  I know you weren't quoting. 

Yes, that is the basically it. 

[Hoepssa]

No.

In several years, old Trini box will worth more than wooden furniture 😁

[KarlJ]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:50 PM, Islandboy said:

Wait a minute, Indiana’s about 30 miles south of Chicago...and your last name starts with a J. 

Yes & Yes

So what am I missing here?!

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, KarlJ said:

Yes & Yes

So what am I missing here?!

Well, seems you are a celeb. Could you please check with your neighbours and get back to us!

😁 

[Islandboy]

9 hours ago, KarlJ said:

Yes & Yes

So what am I missing here?!

My humor is often misunderstood, even by me at times, haha.

With all of the ancient artifacts you mentioned, I put 2 and the square root of 72 together and assumed you may just be the real Indiana Jones.

[KarlJ]

1 hour ago, Islandboy said:

My humor is often misunderstood, even by me at times, haha.

With all of the ancient artifacts you mentioned, I put 2 and the square root of 72 together and assumed you may just be the real Indiana Jones.

Lol, you got me! That was pretty funny 😄