Jerryvonkramer Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 I find that this sort of information is all out there but seldom in one place. In this thread, I'd like to put together a list of the tasting notes typically associated with each marca. Could be a good resource, especially if many FOH posters contribute! These are chiefly from my own reviews and notes. There are some brands of which I have no experience and I've left them off for that reason. Cohiba: Honey, mocha, grass H. Upmann: Shortbread, cream Hoyo de Monterry: Cream, vanilla, baking spices Montecristo: Cocoa, coffee Partagas: Pepper, leather, spice, sourdough Romeo y Julietta: Cherry, Turkish delight Bolivar: Earth, leather, pepper Punch: Peanut, cedar Ramon Allones: Fruit, caramel, spice, leather Trinidad: Butter, coconut, dough El Rey Del Mundo: Almond, marshmallow Juan Lopez: Jaffa cake Por Larrañaga: Caramel Quai d'Orsay: Pine, ginger Sancho Panza: Salt Vegas Robaina: Molasses, cream, nuts 4
Corylax18 Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 Beyond the profiles listed on the Habanos website(linked below) any other "flavor profiles" are in our heads. The blenders in Havana aim to achieve what's listed here, nothing more. I've never found any evidence of reviews with a dozen (or any) "flavors" listed before Cigar Aficionado came along. Long winded, pedantic reviews listing 10, 15, 20 flavor notes are great for selling cigars and cigar related media, but that's about it. Its a recent trend, pushed along by retailers and "aficionados". The Cubans think its hilarious and they aren't laughing with us. https://www.habanos.com/en/strengths/ 3
Jerryvonkramer Posted July 17, 2023 Author Posted July 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, Corylax18 said: Beyond the profiles listed on the Habanos website(linked below) any other "flavor profiles" are in our heads. The blenders in Havana aim to achieve what's listed here, nothing more. I've never found any evidence of reviews with a dozen (or any) "flavors" listed before Cigar Aficionado came along. Long winded, pedantic reviews listing 10, 15, 20 flavor notes are great for selling cigars and cigar related media, but that's about it. Its a recent trend, pushed along by retailers and "aficionados". The Cubans think its hilarious and they aren't laughing with us. https://www.habanos.com/en/strengths/ That link doesn't list any flavours, it lists the strengths of each brand. Habanos website is full of flavour descriptions, including on this link which says: "Tastes vary between sizes and there are countless nuances between brands of the same ranking to be explored."
Jerryvonkramer Posted July 17, 2023 Author Posted July 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, El Presidente said: This should help. Greatly appreciated!
MrBirdman Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 10 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Long winded, pedantic reviews listing 10, 15, 20 flavor notes are great for selling cigars and cigar related media, but that's about it. This 👆. I like Halfwheel since it does great coverage of the cigar industry, but some of the reviews will have 20+ flavors including “peanut”, “peanut shell” and “peanut butter” for the same cigar. Aside from the question of who has actually eaten peanut shells, I do think there is a method to their madness, at least as Charlie explains it. But it’s totally different than the experience of 99.99% of cigar smokers (and probably most blenders too; Hammy has made clear repeatedly he does not get much into flavor notes and he’s among the most renowned blenders in the world). 3
Jerryvonkramer Posted July 17, 2023 Author Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, MrBirdman said: This 👆. I like Halfwheel since it does great coverage of the cigar industry, but some of the reviews will have 20+ flavors including “peanut”, “peanut shell” and “peanut butter” for the same cigar. Aside from the question of who has actually eaten peanut shells, I do think there is a method to their madness, at least as Charlie explains it. But it’s totally different than the experience of 99.99% of cigar smokers (and probably most blenders too; Hammy has made clear repeatedly he does not get much into flavor notes and he’s among the most renowned blenders in the world). I mean surely the fact that some people are pretentious in their descriptions does not mean that there’s no such thing as flavour notes? I had a Punch 48 yesterday and the peanut butter note was very strong; a day or so before I had an Upmann Regalias which had a very distinct honey note. Are you simply denying these exist? What’s the point of smoking cigars if you’re just flat denying flavours?
Silverstix Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 what is jaffa cake lol I get nuts and chocolate/orange liqueur from JL2 and a floral dark berry from JL1
MrBirdman Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Jerryvonkramer said: I mean surely the fact that some people are pretentious in their descriptions does not mean that there’s no such thing as flavour notes? That is definitely not what I (or @Corylax18) said. I, like many, get flavor notes. It's just rare to get more than three, and even the most complex cigars might have 5 or 6, not 20. 1
Popular Post Jerryvonkramer Posted July 17, 2023 Author Popular Post Posted July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Silverstix said: what is jaffa cake lol I get nuts and chocolate/orange liqueur from JL2 and a floral dark berry from JL1 A Jaffa cake is a spongy cake biscuit thing filled with an orange-flavoured jam 😂 2 hours ago, MrBirdman said: That is definitely not what I said. I, like many, get flavor notes. It's just rare to get more than three, and even the most complex cigars might have 5 or 6, not 20. To be honest I’m the same. The most I’ve ever got from any cigar was about 6 in the Sir Winnie. Or the flavour profile can change from first third to second to third, but seldom more than 3-4 at same time. 5
Havanaaddict Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 Fresh Cohiba, I always get citrus flavors. As they get older, the vanilla starts to come out.
Namisgr11 Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Jerryvonkramer said: I mean surely the fact that some people are pretentious in their descriptions does not mean that there’s no such thing as flavour notes? I bet the flavor notes differ by quite a lot from person to person. Taste (from the mouth, primarily) and flavor (from the mouth, nose, and brain) have subjective attributes. Some of us would characterize the flavor profiles in your original post very differently, and I'm not sure that it's possible to come up with a list that's stereotypical for most everyone. Also, while I've only been enjoying cigars for a relatively short while, I gather that flavor profiles can change, sometimes dramatically, with different production dates. I do enjoy learning about flavors that others describe in their smokes, and it gives a useful heads-up on subtleties to look for.
SCgarman Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 17 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Beyond the profiles listed on the Habanos website(linked below) any other "flavor profiles" are in our heads. The blenders in Havana aim to achieve what's listed here, nothing more. I've never found any evidence of reviews with a dozen (or any) "flavors" listed before Cigar Aficionado came along. Long winded, pedantic reviews listing 10, 15, 20 flavor notes are great for selling cigars and cigar related media, but that's about it. Its a recent trend, pushed along by retailers and "aficionados". The Cubans think its hilarious and they aren't laughing with us. https://www.habanos.com/en/strengths/ Marvin Shanken has been laughing all the way to the bank since 1992. I would venture to say than unlike most of us, he is perfectly capable of lighting his Cuban cigars with 100 dollar bills.
Bijan Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 19 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Beyond the profiles listed on the Habanos website(linked below) any other "flavor profiles" are in our heads. The blenders in Havana aim to achieve what's listed here, nothing more. I've never found any evidence of reviews with a dozen (or any) "flavors" listed before Cigar Aficionado came along. The idea of flavours and flavour profiles are not the same. The idea that there's any consistency or that there is an effort to produce consistent flavours, is different from the fact that there are different flavours in the cigars while smoked after production. But if you look at the book the gourmet guide to cigars Paul Garmirian, you'll find some flavour notes for a bunch of Cuban cigars, and he predates Cigar Aficionado, though maybe not by many years. I would also think of Zino Davidoff and what he wrote about cigars. For example chocolate producers use professional tasters to categorize the flavours of the cocoa beans / raw chocolate. Does that transfer to most people who eat chocolate? Probably not. 7 hours ago, MrBirdman said: That is definitely not what I (or @Corylax18) said. I, like many, get flavor notes. It's just rare to get more than three, and even the most complex cigars might have 5 or 6, not 20. You can do it (with some cigars) if you sit with pen and paper and force yourself to do it. Though a lot of those notes won't be common to other cigars from that box, let alone random cigars from that vitola. how well the cigar is burning, how fast one is smoking, how far along the cigar is in being smoked and the ambient conditions where it is being smoked, can all cause a lot of variation. I used to do reviews and post them on FOH. I think one review I had 20 notes. It was an outlier, not sure my next highest was 10 even. I think it was a Partagas series du connaisseur no. 1 or 2. But yeah to have 20 exotic notes on every cigar... Edit: found it: https://www.fohcigars.com/forum/topic/147733-partagás-serie-du-connaisseur-no1-osu-ea00-august-1999-ptgsrw/ 3
Ford2112 Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 I always quote my friend Meredith. " you know what I taste? Tobacco!" But she likes busting my chops. 1
BrightonCorgi Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 MRN has marca flavor profiles noted as we all do in our head at least. Whether that profile was partly implanted from what we read and smoked or just smoked. I gather mostly the former. Obviously if someone says it tastes like something so far off you'd "I don't get that", but MRN's descriptors seem in line for the cigars during the time it was published. I find today's cigars less drastic in their profile. They're all more to the middle. The old days, aficionados could name the tobacco down the finca. I doubt there's less than a dozen today that could. 2
Popular Post Bijan Posted July 17, 2023 Popular Post Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said: The old days, aficionados could name the tobacco down the finca. I doubt there's less than a dozen today that could. I remember reading that in a Zino Davidoff books from the 60s, maybe The Connoisseur's Book of the Cigar. Edit: found it: 5
Corylax18 Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 10 hours ago, Bijan said: Though a lot of those notes won't be common to other cigars from that box, let alone random cigars from that vitola. how well the cigar is burning, how fast one is smoking, how far along the cigar is in being smoked and the ambient conditions where it is being smoked, can all cause a lot of variation. This is what I'm getting at. I'm not saying I've never tasted Chocolate in a Montecristo, or Orange/Citrus in a Juan Lopez. I'm saying 25 cigars in a box can present 25 different profiles. Different boxes of the same marca/vitola from different years can and often do taste absolutely nothing a like. Cuba doesn't have the ability or the desire to track each leaf from field to stripping house to Fermentation house, to pilone, to aging warehouse, etc. The variety of leaf in each shipment to each warehouse is huge and the cigars rolled from each shipment show that same huge variety. Each cigar should be smoked and enjoyed for what it is, not what somebody selling you something tells you it should be. 7 hours ago, Bijan said: I remember reading that in a Zino Davidoff books from the 60s, maybe The Connoisseur's Book of the Cigar. Edit: found it: That's a great story. But I have a feeling its just that, a story. Maybe Davidoff tracked every leaf, every pilone through each step of every process it takes to make a cigar, but I Highly doubt it. The amount of note taking and data collection would require a tremendous amount of labor from an extremely well educated employee. Without reams of data to back up the anecdote above, I put very little stock in it. Zino had a huge and very positive influence on the Cigar industry, but he also said a lot of very stupid stuff, like not smoking the last third/past the band of a cigar if you're an "enlightened aficionado" as he puts it. 11 hours ago, SCgarman said: Marvin Shanken has been laughing all the way to the bank since 1992. I would venture to say than unlike most of us, he is perfectly capable of lighting his Cuban cigars with 100 dollar bills. So could the entire C-Suite at McDonalds. That doesn't mean either makes a quality product. 3
GoodStix Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, BoliDan said: I get fresh cat litter from Punch. 🤔 Ffs, why have you tried fresh cat litter?! 😉 1
BoliDan Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 15 hours ago, GoodStix said: Ffs, why have you tried fresh cat litter?! 😉 Best served with a dirty martini. I prefer fresh step, Mmmm 1
BrightonCorgi Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 There's landscaping supply company about 4 miles from the house that sells a lot of fresh mulch. When I ride my bike by, I think of a new box of Lusitanias. The barn yard smell is quite potent. 1
Ford2112 Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: There's landscaping supply company about 4 miles from the house that sells a lot of fresh mulch. When I ride my bike by, I think of a new box of Lusitanias. The barn yard smell is quite potent. I smelled the foot of an 898 this morning. Smelled like a.horses patoot!
Edicion Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 On 7/18/2023 at 3:55 AM, Bijan said: I used to do reviews and post them on FOH. I think one review I had 20 notes. It was an outlier, not sure my next highest was 10 even. I think it was a Partagas series du connaisseur no. 1 or 2. But yeah to have 20 exotic notes on every cigar... Edit: found it: https://www.fohcigars.com/forum/topic/147733-partagás-serie-du-connaisseur-no1-osu-ea00-august-1999-ptgsrw/ Nice review Bijan. I am not an expert but I think this is what "transition" in a cigar looks to me, where the flavors change character throughout the cigar. It's not usually this dramatic in shorter sizes but it has happened. Longer length cigars (DC, Lonsdale etc) have more room for development. I am sometimes able to get 4-5 distinct flavors that later change/transition. Other times the flavors just remain similar until the end, and only strength changes from mild to strong or vice versa. 1
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