Sir Winston Black Box

[Puros Y Vino]

I've been curious about this one for a while.  I'm familiar with the Sir Winnie "green box" and even had the opportunity to smoke 6 of them over the years.  In the CCW entry for the Sir Winston it mentions a black lacquered box discontinued in 1994.  Anyone here have one of these or a photo of one?

[Chucko8]

Saw this post recently on a page. Not sure if it’s black or green. Looks black to me

Edited January 21, 2023 by Chucko8
Remove a name from the screenshot

[X-Man]

That’s a green box sir.

[Corylax18]

57 minutes ago, Chucko8 said:

Saw this post recently on a page. Not sure if it’s black or green. Looks black to me

I think Charlie is a member on the Forum. If not, I'm friendly with him outside the forum. We can probably get confirmation if its up in the air, but I agree with Xman, that looks like a green box. 

[Puros Y Vino]

19 minutes ago, X-Man said:

That’s a green box sir.

That looks like the same style box I pulled my cigars out of.  Do we maybe have a discrepancy here?  There's no "black box" but a "green box" that is on the dark side?

[gormag38]

3 minutes ago, Puros Y Vino said:

That looks like the same style box I pulled my cigars out of.  Do we maybe have a discrepancy here?  There's no "black box" but a "green box" that is on the dark side?

I think that could be the case. If I look long enough I can get both black and green from the photo above. My first instinct was 'that's green' however. 

[SMELTZ]

38 minutes ago, X-Man said:

That’s a green box sir.

Most Men are red/green colorblind. This is because Males have only 1 X chromosome, from their mother. If that X chromosome has the gene for red/green color blindness , they will have red/green color blindness. Most Men are red/green colorblind.

[MrBirdman]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:16 AM, SMELTZ said:

Most Men are red/green colorblind. This is because Males have only 1 X chromosome, from their mother. If that X chromosome has the gene for red/green color blindness , they will have red/green color blindness. Most Men are red/green colorblind.

Pretty sure it’s not that most men are colorblind but that among those who are R/G colorblind the population is overwhelmingly male (for the reason you cite, since a girl won’t be colorblind unless both parents pass on the gene to her; in males it only takes the mother). 

I’ve heard it said that women can distinguish color better than men (which is why they sort cigars for boxing) but I don’t know whether there is science behind it. 

[Fugu]

Meant to be the same. Not sure where that particular info on CCW stems from, but it’s a dark, a very dark, sometimes almost black green.

[JohnS]

The H.Upmann Sir Winston Cigar box prior to the mid 1990s was indeed green, but it was a olive-type green. The image below, taken from Cigar Aficionado, shows such a box.

Depending on the surrounding light, this olive-green colour can look quite different. Below are two images of the same box with different lighting conditions...

Alex has this correct information on the H.Upmann Sir Winston in his soon-to-be-published El Habano Moderno, on p.128. (I am fortunate to have a personalised pdf copy). The information on Cuban Cigar Website might have been uploaded to the site in its infancy and hasn't been revised, therefore, for some time. It wouldn't be a problem for @ATGroom to update as this type of (minor) thing comes up every now-and-then.

[ATGroom]

21 minutes ago, JohnS said:

The information on Cuban Cigar Website might have been uploaded to the site in its infancy and hasn't been revised, therefore, for some time. It wouldn't be a problem for @ATGroom to update as this type of (minor) thing comes up every now-and-then.

Yeah, I think it's because we had a packaging type of "black lacquered cabinet" in the database that was used for things like Grand Reserva boxes, and Trev or myself couldn't be bothered creating a new packaging record specifically for green. I'll fix it up.

They are definitely green, not black, although you wouldn't know it in some pictures.

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/img/boxgallery/cubatabacocatagloue19709.jpg

[mater3333]

@Chucko8 mind removing the screenshot with the guy's name? 

[Chucko8]

2 hours ago, mater3333 said:

@Chucko8 mind removing the screenshot with the guy's name? 

No problem. I have readjusted the shot to remove the name. Apologies for any inconvenience caused 

[Ryan]

I've seen green boxes of these and I have seen at least one black box. About 12 years ago in the keep in Fox London.

I had heard of them before but that was the only one I've seen. It was definitely black, not a dark green.

The finish was not lacquered like Behike boxes. The grain of the wood was visible under the paint and it was not as smooth to the touch as a modern lacquered box.

If I had a picture of it I wouldn't have it now and I'm sure the box is long gone from the keep.

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, Ryan said:

I've seen green boxes of these and I have seen at least one black box. About 12 years ago in the keep in Fox London.

I had heard of them before but that was the only one I've seen. It was definitely black, not a dark green.

The finish was not lacquered like Behike boxes. The grain of the wood was visible under the paint and it was not as smooth to the touch as a modern lacquered box.

If I had a picture of it I wouldn't have it now and I'm sure the box is long gone from the keep.

Interesting Andy. What era would you say it was from?

[Ryan]

43 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

Interesting Andy. What era would you say it was from?

As far as I remember, mid 70s.

[ATGroom]

Here is another one I have in my archive. Pictures are from a Spanish collectables website.

[ATGroom]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:41 AM, JohnS said:

The H.Upmann Sir Winston Cigar box prior to the mid 1990s was indeed green, but it was a olive-type green.

Y'know, now that I look at it, the green used is awfully close to Pantone 448 C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_tobacco_packaging#Australia

[Fugu]

15 hours ago, Ryan said:

It was definitely black, not a dark green.

Pics or it didn’t happen! 😂

Now, seriously, I’ve so far never / nowhere seen a true black version being documented. I’d rather say it is much depending on the actual lighting, as well as white-balance settings (camera / monitor / printing), as being nicely demonstrated by John in his post above (👍).

That doesn’t dismiss the possibility that a run of black boxes wouldn’t be conceivable. But for a CCW-entry I would rather stick with the proven “dark olive drab” before adding any black version, based solely on anecdotal info.

[ATGroom]

Not that I put a lot of stock in the colour matching quality of 1970s Cuban printing, but the catalogue pictures don't do a lot to refute the "black" theory.

1969. Looks green, but also the colour balance looks badly off.

1971. Looks black or brown.

1972. Definitely brown.

 

1977. Looks black to me. Possibly green tinge on the lower half.

 

1989. Still looks pretty black. Maybe slightly green.

 

I'm guessing maybe the dark brown stain version was around until the late 1970s, and that varied between black / dark brown. The green paint followed and also started out darker than it ended up.

[Fugu]

4 hours ago, ATGroom said:

I'm guessing maybe the dark brown stain version was around until the late 1970s, and that varied between black / dark brown. The green paint followed and also started out darker than it ended up.

Tending to agree, Alex. At least there seems to be a wider range of shades or tonality to it than simply one single dark green.

Probably it’s also a matter of paint quality (opacity, pigments) and its application since that varnish is partially translucent on the wood. May be non-intentional but an issue of supply and sources over the years, like we have seen in various other packaging details.

[ATGroom]

I recently had an opportunity to get hands on with some old Sir Winston boxes, so I thought would take some photos to add a bit more data to this thread. Same camera, same lighting, same Photoshop settings etc.

No cardboard for either so dating is a bit tricky, but I would put the darker one as 1970s and the other one as early 1990s. The 70s one to me is black, with a brown base to it. The 90s one is dark green.

N.B. the checkerboard pattern on the 70s one I think is an imprint from the plastic bag it was stored in.

[benfica_77]

I see the red sticker on the one side in a photo.... a 24:24 PSP box??