Thoughts? NFT

[triphitter]

As the saying goes "The sheep will get slaughtered"...now if I could just figure out who is the sheep and who is the wolf 

[MPS]

https://www.christies.com/features/10-things-to-know-about-CryptoPunks-11569-1.aspx?sc_lang=en#FID-11569

https://www.christies.com/features/Monumental-collage-by-Beeple-is-first-purely-digital-artwork-NFT-to-come-to-auction-11510-7.aspx

Back in 2017 I thought CryptoKitties and other NFT's were crazy. I missed the train but that was like missing the BTC run in 2013. We are that early right now in the NFT space. Same goes with Defi and ETH based contracts. 

https://opensea.io/assets/0x06012c8cf97bead5deae237070f9587f8e7a266d/21

 

[Kevin48438]

38 minutes ago, miamipadronsmoker said:

https://www.christies.com/features/10-things-to-know-about-CryptoPunks-11569-1.aspx?sc_lang=en#FID-11569

https://www.christies.com/features/Monumental-collage-by-Beeple-is-first-purely-digital-artwork-NFT-to-come-to-auction-11510-7.aspx

Back in 2017 I thought CryptoKitties and other NFT's were crazy. I missed the train but that was like missing the BTC run in 2013. We are that early right now in the NFT space. Same goes with Defi and ETH based contracts. 

https://opensea.io/assets/0x06012c8cf97bead5deae237070f9587f8e7a266d/21

 

Thanks for sharing.  I remain curious about these things.

What is it that makes a NFT successful vs. one that failed?

Where is the market to trade in these things?

[Bijan]

I also wonder about that one nft token that sold for $70 million... Does the buyer really expect to sell it for say $200 million in the future...

[Kevin48438]

3 minutes ago, Bijan said:

I also wonder about that one nft token that sold for $70 million... Does the buyer really expect to sell it for say $200 million in the future...

Has to be.  And maybe they will.  Someone will be left holding the bag eventually though.  This has to be the pinnacle of frivolous, prestige possessions.  It’s as intrinsically worthless as it gets.  

[MPS]

I also wonder about that one nft token that sold for $70 million... Does the buyer really expect to sell it for say $200 million in the future...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-bytes/metakovan-mystery-buyer-of-beeples-69-3-million-nft-art-reveals-identity/articleshow/81572029.cms


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[MPS]

Thanks for sharing.  I remain curious about these things.
What is it that makes a NFT successful vs. one that failed?
Where is the market to trade in these things?

I’m no expert at all but I think NFT’s of historical importance will skyrocket. I’m sure it will be volatile but in the end I believe owning a glyph, punk, beeple or founder kittie will be similar to owning significant artwork.

As far as new releases it’s just like regular art. What makes some artists successful and others not?


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[Bijan]

6 minutes ago, miamipadronsmoker said:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-bytes/metakovan-mystery-buyer-of-beeples-69-3-million-nft-art-reveals-identity/articleshow/81572029.cms


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Interesting so that token and others are in a fund people can invest in?

I wasn't too critical of Bitcoin or other crypto. It was always a question of how well any particular coin would do over time and the long term prospects. And I've made my share of money on meme stocks too. But this really does seem like greater fool theory... A form or more million $+ tokens in a fund and hope someone will value them at an even more ridiculous level in the future...

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, miamipadronsmoker said:

I’m no expert at all but I think NFT’s of historical importance will skyrocket. I’m sure it will be volatile but in the end I believe owning a glyph, punk, beeple or founder kittie will be similar to owning significant artwork.

As far as new releases it’s just like regular art. What makes some artists successful and others not?


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Well to that two things. When you own an artwork you own the original physical item possibly with legal rights to it's use possibly with that being reserved by the original artist.

Everyone else can only enjoy a copy.

With nfts everyone enjoys the exact same copy as you. You only get bragging rights to owning a crypto blockchain token of the hash of the file.

The other thing being who knows what people will value in a decade or two. Beeple will that still be a thing?

[Bijan]

To me the analogy is having a signed baseball card. With the understanding that only one card will ever be signed. Though there is nothing stopping having the same artwork have a token issued on another blockchain (the token is unique only on the original blockchain).

[MPS]

Well to that two things. When you own an artwork you own the original physical item possibly with legal rights to it's use possibly with that being reserved by the original artist.
Everyone else can only enjoy a copy.
With nfts everyone enjoys the exact same copy as you. You only get bragging rights to owning a crypto blockchain token of the hash of the file.
The other thing being who knows what people will value in a decade or two. Beeple will that still be a thing?

You have to understand that it’s a digital world now and things will only move faster. While we might value a physical gallery more than a digital one that will probably not hold true for future generations. Finding the value right now in this market and being able to hold through the bear market will make people mega rich.

https://gallery.so/dcinvestor

https://hypebeast.com/2021/4/cryptopunks-nft-saveartspace-pixelated-billboard-exhibition?amp=1


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[MPS]

To me the analogy is having a signed baseball card. With the understanding that only one card will ever be signed. Though there is nothing stopping having the same artwork have a token issued on another blockchain (the token is unique only on the original blockchain).

Sports collectibles are already moving digital. Check out NBA Topshot. My friends who are big collectors of comics, cards and even video games are all moving into the digital NFT space.


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[Bijan]

Yes but Artwork in general and Sports collectibles specifically are not something I would invest much of my net worth in either traditional or digital. I do own some vintage records but I enjoy the ownership and don't expect to ever sell them.

These have all the issues of investment in regular artwork plus the risks of blockchain. For example I assume most blockchain technology is based on EC public/private keys (elliptic curve cryptography), that'll all be absolutely worthless if/when quantum computers become a reality, probably a matter of decades.

 

[Kevin48438]

It seems it is exciting and interesting to people because it’s new.  How long will that last?   I doubt I’ll want to have any of these in 10 years.  Maybe even less.   The buying market will move to the next new thing.  Nobody wants to be holding the bag at the end.

[MPS]

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[PapaDisco]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:28 PM, Bijan said:

It's the same as a bitcoin just unique, instead of generic. Same technology essentially.

Yes, and the differences are that the supply of bitcoin is limited by the algorithm whereas the NFT is limited from the outset (in this case a single cigar design, but like art prints you could set the number at whatever you want).  Advantage of the bitcoin is that it's designed to be a medium of exchange; generic as Bijan said.  The NFT is trying to be a unique store of value, like a painting, but virtual. 

[Enduin]

I get the argument that we should look at what kids are interested in to figure out what might be hot in the future, but I feel like that goes both ways. Kids and young adults are certainly very much into digital stuff, yet I see a lot of nostalgia for the 80s and 90s in the younger generations. I'm seeing it in music, fashion, heck even a lot of videogames now a re looking like the pixellated crap I used to play with as a kid in the 80s... With cryptos it was something new that could go both ways and it went really well. With NFTs it can still go both ways, but now there is this desperate desire to dump money on anything that I think it makes everything a bit suspicious. 

[Ginseng]

On 4/8/2021 at 6:29 PM, miamipadronsmoker said:

...collectors of comics...are all moving into the...NFT space.

I read and collect comic books and have done so on and off for nearly 50 years. And what I collect are comic books. Because I like to look at them, smell them, touch all the fine details, and revel in their tactile reality. I will never move "into the NFT space" because those are not the things that I've grown up with and love. I don't collect for money or appreciation but rather for the love of it and, for me, it means material possessions. Books, knives, cigars, comics, woodblock prints, selvedge denim, and on and on.

There is no doubt there is a market for NFT. Markets work fine for real goods as well as abstractions. But NFT is a step too far. It is non-unique uniqueness of a thing or concept that may or may not exist, that you don't own and that can be reproduced for essentially zero cost in near infinite quantity. It's worse than buying a bottle of Crisp Mountain Air. It's the ultimate snake oil end game.

[Bijan]

I just came across the idea of using NFTs for concert tickets and that makes a lot of sense. You do have to prove ownership of them to use them and there is a tangible benefit to ownership and you may want to transfer ownership. Something like that makes much more sense to me than proving ownership of a gif or jpeg.

[Enduin]

That definitely makes a lot more sense, although I'm not sure what it adds to digital tickets on smartphones that have already been a thing in concert for a few years... 

[Bijan]

4 hours ago, Enduin said:

That definitely makes a lot more sense, although I'm not sure what it adds to digital tickets on smartphones that have already been a thing in concert for a few years... 

I don't know how easy it is to sell a digital ticket to someone else. Especially if it's something like a season's pass or a lifetime pass. NFT with proof of ownership and being decentralized would make that easier.

As an example some of the NFTs from the latest kings of Leon nft sale were 4 or 6 NFTs that grant the bearer front row tickets with vip service to any future shows.

[Enduin]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I don't know how easy it is to sell a digital ticket to someone else. Especially if it's something like a season's pass or a lifetime pass. NFT with proof of ownership and being decentralized would make that easier.

With Ticketmaster it's very easy: there is an option in your account page where the digital tickets are, where you can put them for sale and Ticketmaster acts as intermediary. Or you can sell them yourself and transfer the ticket to another person with first and last name and an email if I remember correctly. I only did the first option.The recipient gets the digital ticket in their Ticketmaster account and can show it on their smartphone to be scanned at the concert venue to enter.

Just saying. It's a cool idea, but like all new ideas, it should pass the test of comparison with what is currently available to ensure that it actually does have something more to offer. 

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, Enduin said:

Just saying. It's a cool idea, but like all new ideas, it should pass the test of comparison with what is currently available to ensure that it actually does have something more to offer. 

Good to know. But at least it doesn't have less to offer, like buying music and artwork as NFTs 😂🤣😂

In this case the advantage would be it could be without an intermediary and anonymous.

[TobaccoRoad]

Non Fungible Tokens... That sounds to me like what the funny little pieces of green paper with pictures of dead presidents will be called at some point in the future. I say spend it on something worthwhile while you can. Rolled up tobacco leaves will definitely taste better when burned than rolled up Non Fungible Tokens. 

 

[Bijan]

17 minutes ago, TobaccoRoad said:

Non Fungible Tokens... That sounds to me like what the funny little pieces of green paper with pictures of dead presidents will be called at some point in the future.

Except for the serial numbers those green pieces of paper are fungible. 😉

18 minutes ago, TobaccoRoad said:

I say spend it on something worthwhile while you can. Rolled up tobacco leaves will definitely taste better when burned than rolled up Non Fungible Tokens. 

Amen.