True or False ?

[El Presidente]

What is Viso tobacco?

 

 

A grade of filler tobacco. Viso leaf is more powerful than seco and less powerful than ligero. It also tends to be thinner than ligero and more thick than seco. In some countries, this type of leaf is known as volado.

 

[Nino]

True dat I think ...

[JohnS]

True and false. For Non-Cuban Cigar producers, viso is a leaf of a tobacco plant whereas in Cuba, no such distinction exists because they don't make any reference to viso leaves.

[SCgarman]

43 minutes ago, JohnS said:

True and false. For Non-Cuban Cigar producers, viso is a leaf of a tobacco plant whereas in Cuba, no such distinction exists because they don't make any reference to viso leaves.

Correct. Viso is a term used with only non Cuban tobacco. Volado is a term used with Cuban tobacco and not heard of with non Cuban. Are they the same? IDK

[Fuzz]

Wasn't this hashed out last year? Pretty much agreed that Viso is a term used only by NC producers, and originated with Davidoff?

[NSXCIGAR]

I suppose you can give a name to every priming but Cubans don't need such gimmicks to blend and sell their cigars...

[Nino]

56 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Wasn't this hashed out last year? Pretty much agreed that Viso is a term used only by NC producers, and originated with Davidoff?

Correct. Viso is a NC Term. Used among others by Henk Kelner of Davidoff.

[El Presidente]

......so is Viso Volado as implied? 

[IanMcLean68]

6 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

......so is Viso Volado as implied? 

I thought Volado was the least powerful alongside Seco and Ligero and was mostly for burn? If so, then how can Viso be between Seco and Ligero, and be Volado?

[El Presidente]

Just now, IanMcLean68 said:

I thought Volado was the least powerful alongside Seco and Ligero and was mostly for burn? If so, then how can Viso be between Seco and Ligero, and be Volado?

you are onto something Ian. 

Viso leaf is more powerful than seco and less powerful than ligero

In some countries, this type of leaf is known as volado.

How can the above be?

[El Presidente]

How the Cubans See it

 

How some NC see it. 

 

How most I know in the NC world refer to it.  

 

 

 

Viso is not Volado. 

[Fuzz]

How all cigar producers see tobacco plants....

[Corylax18]

@El Presidente The third diagram in your last post is always how I've known it. Some may call this a "Sub Priming" like some call Medio Tiempo a Sub Priming. Some one will tell you these are differences without a distinction. Some growers/manufacturers classify just about every leaf on the plant at this point. Marketing being what it is, "differentiators" are important. Even if they are completely made up. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

you are onto something Ian. 

Viso leaf is more powerful than seco and less powerful than ligero

In some countries, this type of leaf is known as volado.

How can the above be?

NC viso would be a high priming CC seco, or more likely a low priming ligero.

Viso in the NC world is going to make up most of your filler blend, typically.

[Bijan]

25 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

NC viso would be a high priming CC seco, or more likely a low priming ligero.

Viso in the NC world is going to make up most of your filler blend, typically.

Just a curious question, if in the NC world they're basically making ligero cigars, what do they do with the rest of the leaves? Or alternatively does Cuba have a surplus of ligero somewhere?

[Corylax18]

8 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Just a curious question, if in the NC world they're basically making ligero cigars, what do they do with the rest of the leaves? Or alternatively does Cuba have a surplus of ligero somewhere?

60, 70, 80 RG. If those monsters where "mostly ligero" they would be unsmokable from a simple combustion perspective. 

The Cubans appear to have a surplus of pretty much all filler leaf. Its Wrappers, especially large ones, that bottleneck the Cubans. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

47 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Just a curious question, if in the NC world they're basically making ligero cigars, what do they do with the rest of the leaves? Or alternatively does Cuba have a surplus of ligero somewhere?

You almost never see all ligero NC cigar, and if you do there's some blending strategy going on, otherwise the cigar wouldn't combust. You can have just ligero and viso in the filler, provided you have some low priming viso in there to take the place of seco for combustion. 

[NSXCIGAR]

I suppose we can just say what the NCs call viso the Cubans call the Centro Medio priming. 

[SCgarman]

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

60, 70, 80 RG. If those monsters where "mostly ligero" they would be unsmokable from a simple combustion perspective. 

The Cubans appear to have a surplus of pretty much all filler leaf. Its Wrappers, especially large ones, that bottleneck the Cubans. 

Likely the reason for a lack of large vitola cigars available now. I'm stockpiling marevas. I like the size and smoking duration also.

 

12 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I suppose you can give a name to every priming but Cubans don't need such gimmicks to blend and sell their cigars...

You would think after all these years that NC cigar companies wouldn't need gimmicks to sell their cigars and the product would speak for itself. But some still need to associate themselves with "Havana" and "Cubanesque" still.

[NSXCIGAR]

53 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

You would think after all these years that NC cigar companies wouldn't need gimmicks to sell their cigars and the product would speak for itself. But some still need to associate themselves with "Havana" and "Cubanesque" still.

The fact that they feel they need gimmicks and that they continue to essentially appropriate CC characteristics has always been, should I say, telling to me.

I see things like this and I just chuckle. NC proponents don't hesitate to knock CCs but seem to have a compulsion to imitate them. If CCs were really as bad as they say why would they want any association with them?

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The fact that they feel they need gimmicks and that they continue to essentially appropriate CC characteristics has always been, should I say, telling to me.

I see things like this and I just chuckle. NC proponents don't hesitate to knock CCs but seem to have a compulsion to imitate them. If CCs were really as bad as they say why would they want any association with them?

Imitation is the finest form of flattery.

[PuroDiario]

Not to initiate a long debate here, as I am a 99.9% CC person. But, if NC cigar entrepreneurs are essentially Cuban exiles and their descendants, where in that is there an “appropriation”? 
 

in wine, Boudreaux type blends have traveled everywhere in the wine “new world” regions. Cru, Grand Cru, and similar appellations have also traveled across. in fashion and other consumer verticals, we things like “capsule collections” or “limited releases” or “designer collaborations” have traveled. in finance, things like “crowd funding” basically resemble illiquid private placements for the masses. American “Wagyu”, “Japanese tapas”, etc.
 

all I am saying is that does not matter the industry you look into, participants will incorporate whatever others, usually the most histories and successful players, do as long as it works for the bottom line. And regardless of that “imitation” there is an IP component, authenticity and ingenuity that makes the leader the leader and the followers just the followers.

i don’t see the appropriation a problem or anything like such. Average Joe wants access to Limited Editions, Reserva, and whatever aspirational label there is. It happens in tobacco and beyond. 
 

So in my view if calling it Viso helps them market more cigars or whatever, good for them, and more fun for their clients to have another thing to discuss in the lounge and nerd about in the internet. No? 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

don’t see the appropriation a problem or anything like such. Average Joe wants access to Limited Editions, Reserva, and whatever aspirational label there is. It happens in tobacco and beyond. 

It wouldn't be an issue for me except that NC producers and proponents have a nasty habit of denigrating CCs--something I rarely see from CC proponents who are much more likely to hold the view of "smoke what you like." 

One would think that in light of such sentiments they would want to distance themselves from CCs as much as possible yet they continue to shamelessly appropriate CC trends. It's fine to have your own "limited edition" but to just flat out copy the Cuban EL bands exposes their insecurities, not to mention their lack of innovation and laziness. 

You would expect the trend to be the opposite--HSA poaching from the free-market NC world but to my mind the only trends that they really appropriated are larger RGs and some improved packaging. And they are still not even close to attempting the monster RG cigars that NCs do. 

[Doctorossi]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:08 AM, El Presidente said:

......so is Viso Volado as implied? 

No. Viso is technically a component of seco. It's essentially the uppermost priming of the seco segment of the plant, dubbed "viso" because it grows at about eye-level on a mature plant.

[El Presidente]

3 hours ago, Doctorossi said:

No. Viso is technically a component of seco. It's essentially the uppermost priming of the seco segment of the plant, dubbed "viso" because it grows at about eye-level on a mature plant.

Spot on. Hence the CA definition is not 100% correct. 

Viso

A grade of filler tobacco. Viso leaf is more powerful than seco and less powerful than ligero. It also tends to be thinner than ligero and more thick than seco. In some countries, this type of leaf is known as volado.