Hotel Nacional ashtray legitness?

[Ryan]

58 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Same here. Wrapped in shirts and placed as far away as possible from anything fragile. My luggage was over weight (27kg, ashtray, about 100 cigars plus everything else), and I thought I was going to be told to go buy another bag to split my luggage. After apologising in a little broken Spanish, she looked at me and said, "Oh it's ok Mr Lim, I'll just mark your bag as 23kg..."

The little things you can get away with when you're polite and don't blow up at the person checking you in.

For a couple of years now I'm at 3 check-in bags of 32 KG each, in and out, with 2 10 kg carry-ons, plus a case of duty-free whiskey. Cuban customs don't seem to care at all about duty free purchases coming in. Though don't take my experience as advice.

I sometimes put one bag into the other on the way home, so only 2 check-in bags. Still, for the last few years I've been red channel coming home every time. I just declare everything and I'm lucky that I meet nice, understanding people. 

Ashtrays now go in check-in leaving Havana, they have become more strict there in the last 4 - 5 years. I can remember seeing the x-ray image of one of those ashtrays in my carry-on at Jose Marti. Just a big solid black disk. I could have had a revolver and a pangolin under the thing an no one would have known. Things have changed now. They take even every soft and hard flame lighter they can find. Boxes of matches if you want a final cigar airside in Havana now. Bring them with you to Cuba. Matches can be found in Havana, but I think they might be made of washed-up fishing line.  

[Fuzz]

28 minutes ago, Ryan said:

For a couple of years now I'm at 3 check-in bags of 32 KG each, in and out, with 2 10 kg carry-ons, plus a case of duty-free whiskey. Cuban customs don't seem to care at all about duty free purchases coming in. Though don't take my experience as advice.

I sometimes put one bag into the other on the way home, so only 2 check-in bags. Still, for the last few years I've been red channel coming home every time. I just declare everything and I'm lucky that I meet nice, understanding people. 

Ashtrays now go in check-in leaving Havana, they have become more strict there in the last 4 - 5 years. I can remember seeing the x-ray image of one of those ashtrays in my carry-on at Jose Marti. Just a big solid black disk. I could have had a revolver and a pangolin under the thing an no one would have known. Things have changed now. They take even every soft and hard flame lighter they can find. Boxes of matches if you want a final cigar airside in Havana now. Bring them with you to Cuba. Matches can be found in Havana, but I think they might be made of washed-up fishing line.  

Considering how often you fly there, you're probably on a first name basis with all the airport staff.... and know all their kids names!

[Ryan]

7 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Considering how often you fly there, you're probably on a first name basis with all the airport staff.... and know all their kids names!

Dublin Airport has two tobacco sniffing dogs. Waffle and Obi. They took over a couple of years ago from another dog called Frankie. 

I'm on first name terms with Irish Customs and Revenue sniffing dogs!  I don't let them ask questions that I don't have answers to.

[benfica_77]

1 minute ago, Ryan said:

Dublin Airport has two tobacco sniffing dogs. Waffle and Obi. They took over a couple of years ago from another dog called Frankie. 

I'm on first name terms with Irish Customs and Revenue sniffing dogs!  I don't let them ask questions that I don't have answers to.

Hahaha pack some dog treats! LOLL

[LLC]

I have quite a few of different ones I’ve picked up over the years at The Hotel Nacional and it looks just like one of mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Habana Mike]

Cant believe they only occasionally get the shield centered. Always bugs my OCD eye....

Had a small square windproof one I gave away in a Secret Santa.

They're a great keepsake!

[SigmundChurchill]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Why is the Mona Lisa worth so much when you can get a print? We're not really debating the inherent value of genuine articles are we?

How much was paid for your Nacional ashtrays? I can get a knockoff made in Tijuana for $10. Would you send me $70 for it? Why not? Both do the same thing.

 

It is not a priceless, one of a kind, piece of art.  It's a friggin piece of stone that I knock the ashes off of my cigar into.  

You assume I wouldn't send you $70 for it, but I might depending on the circumstances.  If it was the only one available to me at the time, and I needed an ashtray? Sure, why not?  Do you think they are using some fancy kind of marble in Cuba?  Like I said, if you told me that the two that I own are counterfeit, my response would be, "Meh, I still like them."  And then I would go on with my day and not give it a second thought.

They won't be displaying Hotel Nacional ashtrays in the Louvre any time soon.  When they do, then I will rethink my stance.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 minute ago, SigmundChurchill said:

It is not a priceless, one of a kind, piece of art.  It's a friggin piece of stone that I knock the ashes off of my cigar into.  

You assume I wouldn't send you $70 for it, but I might depending on the circumstances.  If it was the only one available to me at the time, and I needed an ashtray? Sure, why not?  Do you think they are using some fancy kind of marble in Cuba?  Like I said, if you told me that the two that I own are counterfeit, my response would be, "Meh, I still like them."  And then I would go on with my day and not give it a second thought.

They won't be displaying Hotel Nacional ashtrays in the Louvre any time soon.  When they do, then I will rethink my stance.

At no point did I suggest these were priceless art. But why is priceless art valuable when you can just buy a print? Why do people collect baseball cards when you can run it off on your printer? Why do people collect 1st edition books when you can get the e-book on kindle?

Also, you're committing a fallacy similar in economics known as the water-diamond fallacy. Why are diamonds expensive and water cheap? Water is essential to life and diamonds are useless. It's because we're not buying or selling all the water. If water was scarce and you're thirsty you'll pay any price. Yes, if ashtrays suddenly became scarce, and you needed one, you'd pay a lot for even a piece of junk. That's not a realistic scenario. 

 

[SigmundChurchill]

4 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

At no point did I suggest these were priceless art. But why is priceless art valuable when you can just buy a print? Why do people collect baseball cards when you can run it off on your printer? Why do people collect 1st edition books when you can get the e-book on kindle?

Also, you're committing a fallacy similar in economics known as the water-diamond fallacy. Why are diamonds expensive and water cheap? Water is essential to life and diamonds are useless. It's because we're not buying or selling all the water. If water was scarce and you're thirsty you'll pay any price. Yes, if ashtrays suddenly became scarce, and you needed one, you'd pay a lot for even a piece of junk. That's not a realistic scenario. 

 

All of these things you are talking about, diamonds, first edition books, the Mona Lisa, all are relatively to extremely rare commodities, and are assumed to appreciate in value as time goes on and they become more rare.  There is nothing rare and collectible about these ashtrays.  They are cheap and easy to make, there are a ton of them in circulation, and nobody that I know is predicting that production will stop any time soon.  I have no hopes of it being worth anything in the future, especially the older and more used that it gets.  It is a depreciating asset.  I will use these ashtrays until they break or I get tired of them, in which case they will end up in a box in my attic or they will sell at a garage sale or on eBay for 5 or 10 dollars.  Then I will move on to something else.

[Thirds]

Looks similar to one I picked up and gifted. You’re good. 
 

I carried 4 of these back with a bunch of cigars and said I’ll never do that again. They weigh a ton. 

[KavalanWhisky]

All this talk of them and photos have made me want one again! My friend told me they are actually pretty terrible ash trays as they are really shallow but i still want it!

 

[LLC]

13 minutes ago, KavalanWhisky said:

All this talk of them and photos have made me want one again! My friend told me they are actually pretty terrible ash trays as they are really shallow but i still want it!

 

Not great in a windy spot, that’s what they make Stinky’s for. One thing about the marble ones is they will never blow away. 

[SigmundChurchill]

17 minutes ago, KavalanWhisky said:

All this talk of them and photos have made me want one again! My friend told me they are actually pretty terrible ash trays as they are really shallow but i still want it!

 

One of mine is fairly deep.  It is square, and has a lip around the top so it is great for wind.  The negative part of this one is that it takes a little effort to get all of the ashes out of it because of the lip.

The round one is shallow.  I always end up with ashes being blown out of the ashtray and onto my computer keyboard.

[KavalanWhisky]

18 minutes ago, LLC said:

Not great in a windy spot, that’s what they make Stinky’s for. One thing about the marble ones is they will never blow away. 

 

12 minutes ago, SigmundChurchill said:

One of mine is fairly deep.  It is square, and has a lip around the top so it is great for wind.  The negative part of this one is that it takes a little effort to get all of the ashes out of it because of the lip.

The round one is shallow.  I always end up with ashes being blown out of the ashtray and onto my computer keyboard.

Thanks for the confirming my friends advice, I did think the lip one would be the functional but still prefer the classic look.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

There is nothing rare and collectible about these ashtrays.

You can't seem to accept the fact that there is inherent value in an original item as opposed to even a fully functional--or even superior--reproduction or copy. 

How about Elie Bleu humidors? Can you get a better and cheaper humidor? I'm sure you can. People want an Elie Bleu. And is someone who wants an Elie Bleu wrong to want to confirm it's authenticity? Or how about a Dupont jet flame lighter? 

People want the Hotel Nacional ashtrays. They just do. It means something to them. It came from there. They've made them that way for god knows how long. It's maybe the most famous ashtray "line" in the cigar world. They are only made in one place on Earth. They don't always have them. You can't get one at 7-11 down the street. Demand clearly exceeds supply, so there is your scarcity. 

[bugman78629]

Looks fine to me...... brought some back from the Nacional that look very similar🤘

[Meklown]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

People want the Hotel Nacional ashtrays. They just do. It means something to them. It came from there. They've made them that way for god knows how long. It's maybe the most famous ashtray "line" in the cigar world. They are only made in one place on Earth. They don't always have them. You can't get one at 7-11 down the street. Demand clearly exceeds supply, so there is your scarcity. 

I guess it's the beauty of the free market that people place different emphasis and value on different items. 

Why does one like that ashtray? Is it because of "scarcity" or "status" (I have one but you don't)? Or is it simply because the design reminds one of the relaxing environment in Cuba? If it's the latter, I suppose non-original versions could also achieve the same outcome, and hence, one does not need an original (and will not think it's worth the extra $).

[bugman78629]

This is a different style of ashtray...... humidor at Melia Cohiba😍

[rcarlson]

I'll take a fake for less.  Just an ashtray.  

[SigmundChurchill]

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

You can't seem to accept the fact that there is inherent value in an original item as opposed to even a fully functional--or even superior--reproduction or copy. 

 

I can fully accept that there is inherent value in an original item, depending on the item.  To me, this is definitely not one of them, but to each his own, I guess.

 

 

Just curious, are people really faking these?  How much does a known fake go for?  If a fake from Tijuana really is $10, I will take a couple.  That's a good price for a decent ashtray.

[Nino]

13 hours ago, Ryan said:

Ashtrays now go in check-in leaving Havana, they have become more strict there in the last 4 - 5 years. I can remember seeing the x-ray image of one of those ashtrays in my carry-on at Jose Marti. Just a big solid black disk. I could have had a revolver and a pangolin under the thing an no one would have known. Things have changed now. They take even every soft and hard flame lighter they can find. Boxes of matches if you want a final cigar airside in Havana now. Bring them with you to Cuba. Matches can be found in Havana, but I think they might be made of washed-up fishing line.  

Yes, those ahstrays better be checked-in unless you want Cuban customs to seize them - or want to spend an hour discussing with them and end up paying 10 CUC to the customs guy in the men's restroom.

Happened to me, had a 6 lbs HN ashtray in my carry-on and they wanted to seize it. Took me an hour discussing for the guy in the end to take my carry-on, checked it in and gave me the receipt.

Not recommended if you don't speak Spanish ... 🙂

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

Just curious, are people really faking these?  How much does a known fake go for?  If a fake from Tijuana really is $10, I will take a couple.  That's a good price for a decent ashtray.

I honestly don't know, but if Cuba can crank them out at $70 I'm sure they're dirt cheap to produce. The secondary market has been ~$150 for these forever, so I would assume at some point one's been faked. Again, they are a well-known and in-demand item, so I would say that there's at least one fake in the world somewhere.

13 hours ago, bugman78629 said:

Why does Fidel look like one of those seen-on-TV ashtray sales guys here?

5 hours ago, nino said:

and end up paying 10 CUC to the customs guy in the men's restroom

I don't want to end up in the men's room with a Cuban custom agent for any reason. Nothing good can be happening at that point.

[Bagman]

9 hours ago, nino said:

Yes, those ahstrays better be checked-in unless you want Cuban customs to seize them - or want to spend an hour discussing with them and end up paying 10 CUC to the customs guy in the men's restroom.

Happened to me, had a 6 lbs HN ashtray in my carry-on and they wanted to seize it. Took me an hour discussing for the guy in the end to take my carry-on, checked it in and gave me the receipt.

Not recommended if you don't speak Spanish ... 🙂

This happened to me.  I had no idea if I should check or carry it.  Long story short, I found myself in the men's bathroom being shaken down for my last 13 dollars in my wallet.   I've never really been shaken down before in my life and I was not comfortable with being in the bathroom with 2 agents looking into my wallet.  My Spanish was so so.  I picked up that "it could be a weapon and I must confiscate"  But apparently if I empty my wallet then it wasn't a weapon?  Never again will I bring a stupid ashtray thru Cuban Customs.

[JohnInCleveland]

Does it have that Cuban twang?

[NSXCIGAR]

15 minutes ago, Monterey said:

I've never really been shaken down before in my life and I was not comfortable with being in the bathroom with 2 agents looking into my wallet

At least they were only looking into your wallet.