A glaring omission... a genuinely full Bolivar Coronas Gordas? why are they a no go?

[99call]

Cigars that do a stonkingly good job of being the full bodied, big hitters of their respective marca:

JL1:  Bold, strong, complex, can knock you on your back in the first year

Upmann 46: Rich, liquorice, leather ladened 

Punch Punch:  Not quite at that level of genuinely full, but PSP boxes can hit those heights 

So you could obviously argue that the BBF holds this title for Bolivar, i.e the big bopper.....the one that might make you need a sit down, but from my own experiences, and looking at the feedback from the rest of FOH, they do seem to becoming a great deal more soft and mellow.  Aspects of cream, malt and chocolate being turned up, and the volume of Liquorice, burnt coffee, meat and fungal earth, being turned right down. 

I don't really remember the Coronas Extra as being a power house,  so it begs the question, why isn't HSA making a full bodied Bolivar Coronas Gordas?  surely it would be a success.   am I missing something?

 

[Wookie]

BCG is still my favorite of all the Bolivar vitola....flavor and body both outshine the others IMHO. EDIT Oops....I was thinking Gigantes....my bad. 

[99call]

1 hour ago, Wookie said:

BCG is still my favorite of all the Bolivar vitola....flavor and body both outshine the others IMHO. EDIT Oops....I was thinking Gigantes....my bad. 

I great cigar no doubt,  but my point moreover was, that for a group of smokers (myself included)  there is a great enjoyment in smoking certain cigars, PLPC, JL1, BCJ, HU46 etc etc young, fresh, and tongue shatteringly strong. 

Now, with Bolivar widely renowned to be the strongest of all cuban cigars,  The Tubos no 3, and the BCJ are the only cigars in there current stable I would consider as being full, everything else is being being given the powder puff treatment, i.e more sweetness, more chocolate.   Don't get me wrong I love them all, but the strongest marca......no longer has an out and out full bodied cigar.

[lovethehaze]

I would say the boli petit corona is what you are seeking, ballsy for sure even with some time down and full of flavor. 

I would say the jl1 is way softer and smoother than a jl2, but this my pallet, I can't even smoke a jl2 without a few years down and enjoy it, more so i have smoked some just to see where they are at and every time the jl2 kicks my arse unless i am 5 years or more then i can smoke them all day.

 

upman 46 agreed 

 

punch punch not in my wheel house have been tainted by a bad batch.

 

hdm i wouldst go #1 I would suggest the rio seco ballsy young and full of flavor one of my favorites at present

 

i know you seem to be specifically searching corona gordas but sometimes we have to improvise...

 

 

 

[99call]

7 minutes ago, lovethehaze said:

I would say the boli petit corona is what you are seeking, ballsy for sure even with some time down and full of flavor. 

My current go to with bolivar is the tubos no 1, they are the closest to what i'm seeking in terms of old school bolivar meatiness   I have gone through quite a few boxes of the PC, and always find them to be medium. 

It's not that I'm searching as such.   It was just an observation that corona gordas across the spectrum seem to be blended quite full,  yet Bolivar doesn't have one, and their line is getting toned down across the board. 

I just think is would be a success,    but maybe not with the current market wanting everything to taste like Ben & Jerry's

[lovethehaze]

1 minute ago, 99call said:

I just think is would be a success

I would buy some for sure, since this is typically my favorite vitola and i like meat.... i agree with your assessment !

I looove the cohiba sig IV's but such a diff blend than the meat we seek

 

[NSXCIGAR]

HSA has been avoiding/cutting Coronas Gordas for some time. The RAS was a rare exception. I would hope that the relative success of the RAS would inspire HSA to add more to the catalog.

I'm a fan of the vitola so I'd love to see one in every marca, and I do miss the BCE. I was lucky enough to have had them in the 90s when they were earthy power sticks. And while not a Coronas Gordas the vitola was my all-time favorite Franciscos. 44 RG is a shamefully underused RG. 

4 hours ago, Wookie said:

BCG is still my favorite of all the Bolivar vitola....flavor and body both outshine the others IMHO. EDIT Oops....I was thinking Gigantes....my bad. 

The last 2 years of BCG production was very special and not representative of the last 20 years of the cigar which was a mediocre, poor-selling cigar. I never heard anyone even so much as mention BCG from 1999 to 2015. Then, boom--2015 and this gem was rediscovered at the same time as HSA announced their demise further fueling demand and hype. I've never seen a regular production cigar so sought-after so soon after being cut. Secondary market prices have tripled for a cigar only gone for 2-3 years and that was a vendor's nightmare for 20 years. I've never seen anything like it in the 21st century. The only other regular production cigars that preform like this were ones that were limited production to begin with and were unseen for many years before being officially cut, e.g. SLR DC, MdO2. What's happened with BCG since 15 is highly unusual, driven mostly by the tremendous quality of the cigar which is refreshing.

[Wookie]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

HSA has been avoiding/cutting Coronas Gordas for some time. The RAS was a rare exception. I would hope that the relative success of the RAS would inspire HSA to add more to the catalog.

I'm a fan of the vitola so I'd love to see one in every marca, and I do miss the BCE. I was lucky enough to have had them in the 90s when they were earthy power sticks. And while not a Coronas Gordas the vitola was my all-time favorite Franciscos. 44 RG is a shamefully underused RG. 

The last 2 years of BCG production was very special and not representative of the last 20 years of the cigar which was a mediocre, poor-selling cigar. I never heard anyone even so much as mention BCG from 1999 to 2015. Then, boom--2015 and this gem was rediscovered at the same time as HSA announced their demise further fueling demand and hype. I've never seen a regular production cigar so sought-after so soon after being cut. Secondary market prices have tripled for a cigar only gone for 2-3 years and that was a vendor's nightmare for 20 years. I've never seen anything like it in the 21st century. The only other regular production cigars that preform like this were ones that were limited production to begin with and were unseen for many years before being officially cut, e.g. SLR DC, MdO2. What's happened with BCG since 15 is highly unusual, driven mostly by the tremendous quality of the cigar which is refreshing.

Very interesting.  I bought a bunch of 2015 and 2016 boxes a few years ago.  No wonder they are so tasty, if not in need of serious reaming quite often (perfecdraw)....I never even appreciated Bolivar until a few years ago..i didn't care for them in the late 1990s and i stopped buying CCs for about 12 years under a self-imposed financial austerity regimen.  

[bdw1984]

BCE were once very strong. I have 98s that are a totally different cigar than the final 06/07 production. 98s are significantly stronger, with a decade more of age, and no sign of slowing down 

The tobacco changed in the 90s, and they dialed the ligero way down, from what I understand.

Wouldn't be shocked if this came back as an RE one day.

[JoeyBones777]

I love BBF but I could certainly go for a fuller cg in Bolivar. I would actually love a rich lonsdale in each marca! That would be ideal for me but I'd definitely go for a boli cg.

[99call]

35 minutes ago, bdw1984 said:

Wouldn't be shocked if this came back as an RE one day.

neither would I,    but a 10 box and $320....sadly.........  such is the modern madness

[avaldes]

5 hours ago, JoeyBones777 said:

I love BBF but I could certainly go for a fuller cg in Bolivar. I would actually love a rich lonsdale in each marca! That would be ideal for me but I'd definitely go for a boli cg.

 

Yeah it’s sad there was a time when Bolivar and Partagas had lots of lonsdales to pick. It makes me sad and angry.

One of the best strong cigars I ever had was an ‘89 Boli CE. Smoked around 2006 or so, it was killer.

[havanaclub]

My current go to with bolivar is the tubos no 1, they are the closest to what i'm seeking in terms of old school bolivar meatiness   I have gone through quite a few boxes of the PC, and always find them to be medium. 
It's not that I'm searching as such.   It was just an observation that corona gordas across the spectrum seem to be blended quite full,  yet Bolivar doesn't have one, and their line is getting toned down across the board. 
I just think is would be a success,    but maybe not with the current market wanting everything to taste like Ben & Jerry's

I always enjoy a good Bolivar. Had a BRC last night that was outstanding, a very underrated robo that doesn’t seem to get the love like the D4, Rass or epi2. Most will turn towards a BBF if reaching for a boli and not the RC. With that said I love the BCG and I am lucky to have acquired a 15 box. And I am with you on this one, I would buy the shit out of a fresh cab of Bolivar corona gordas, love the size! I would hope they would make it full like the Mag46.


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[99call]

6 hours ago, havanaclub said:

I would buy the shit out of a fresh cab of Bolivar corona gordas, love the size! I would hope they would make it full like the Mag46.

Yep, so strange that the historically the strongest marca, no longer has the strongest cigar.    I would say the Mag46 and JL1 are hands down stronger than anything in the Bolivar stable.   

[RDB]

Surely you really want a Bolivar Lonsdale... that would make me afraid.

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, 99call said:

Yep, so strange that the historically the strongest marca, no longer has the strongest cigar.    I would say the Mag46 and JL1 are hands down stronger than anything in the Bolivar stable.   

I would agree, Boli is not particularly strong anymore. I've had RASCC stronger than any current Boli. 

[99call]

1 minute ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I would agree, Boli is not particularly strong anymore. I've had RASCC stronger than any current Boli. 

Yep, its not to denigrate where they are going with Bolivar, the chocolate maltiness thing, works quite well with a little bit of savoury earth.   but If one brand needs to maintain at least one cigar which will knock you on your back with searing power, it should be Bolivar. 

I think the fact that the market went bonkers for La Escepcion Selectos Finos on hearing early accounts they may be very full bodied,   I think proves there is a desire for it.    Yes there were many more important factors at play with the LESF,  the band, the availability, the format etc. etc.    but many current smokers seemed to be overjoyed there was a strong cigar on the market. 

[avaldes]

Makes you wonder if they are not able to, or not willing to produce enough ligero to make cigars strong enough anymore. The whole idea of making young cigars approachable is fine, but I too would like to see a few more old school cigars. I remember yakking on young cigars 20 years ago...or as one of my friends says "gakking" myself...

[99call]

37 minutes ago, avaldes said:

Makes you wonder if they are not able to, or not willing to produce enough ligero to make cigars strong enough anymore. The whole idea of making young cigars approachable is fine, but I too would like to see a few more old school cigars. I remember yakking on young cigars 20 years ago...or as one of my friends says "gakking" myself...

Maybe things will change again once a new tobacco strain comes into effect,   it's hard to believe that there is a ligero landfill somewhere in Cuba, where it's all getting dumped.    I think we must assume, that the ligero coming through is either being excessively pre aged (highly unlikely), or had little to no power to begin will

[JY0]

Has anyone tried the Bolivar Lonsdale? Those were pretty bold and full flavored. 

[Habana Mike]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:57 PM, JoeyBones777 said:

I love BBF but I could certainly go for a fuller cg in Bolivar. I would actually love a rich lonsdale in each marca! That would be ideal for me but I'd definitely go for a boli cg.

Loved the Boli Lonsdale (dc 2002) and the Inmensas (dc 2009), both Cervantes. Glad I have a few of each left though their power has tamed down a fair bit....

[Nico]

Loved the Boli Lonsdale (dc 2002) and the Inmensas (dc 2009), both Cervantes. Glad I have a few of each left though their power has tamed down a fair bit....

My Boli lonsdale have also been tamed quite a bit. I can tell they were once strong, like a fresh BBF. Compared to other vintage bolis they taste quite good, very dynamic.

[PigFish]

The most robust of the Bolivars of the new millennium, not that I have tried many of the LE/RE cigars, was the Gold Medal. I have had some of the post Wolters release that would just knock your fillings loose.

That type of strength is factually not what I smoke cigars for. A brash concentrated flavor, without character and personality is not skilled cigar making. Constitution is great, but it should not be the hallmark of a better cigar.

The Demi Tasse was a punchy little cigar. Damn I wish I had more than a few stragglers.

Cheers! -Piggy

[NSXCIGAR]

On 4/22/2020 at 2:00 PM, avaldes said:

Makes you wonder if they are not able to, or not willing to produce enough ligero to make cigars strong enough anymore. The whole idea of making young cigars approachable is fine, but I too would like to see a few more old school cigars. I remember yakking on young cigars 20 years ago...or as one of my friends says "gakking" myself...

It's just been spread thin. Also, I believe post-Criollo ligero is inherently less flavorful. Lately it really only adds "strength" and not character as @PigFish notes. I believe the rich earthiness/woodiness of pre-98 CCs like Pary, Boli, Punch SS1/2, Monte 2, RyJ Cazzie, etc. was due mostly to the ligero and not the seco. 

I think Cubatabaco realizes this. Too much ligero will overwhelm the seco anyway, particularly if the ligero provides more strength and less flavor. There are so many large RG cigars they can use up the ligero pretty easily and keep the cigars medium. 

I recently had Carlos Fernandez roll me a Robustos Extra with 3 times as much ligero as he would normally use as an experiment. He substituted two leaves of ligero for one leaf of volado and one of seco. The cigar was both strong and flavorless. And interestingly, the cigar got less strong as it went on until it became rather bland. Quite simply, the heart of a cigar's character is seco. 

[PigFish]

I am no expert on historical changes and blending etc. My niche is climatology, what the end user can do to change the flavor of the cigar.

In reading what @NSXCIGAR wrote above, taking a few minutes to talk to Rob about how he (I am sorry... THEY) blended these custom NC cigars, I have learned a lot (if you believe him, these cigar taste too good to be NC cigars...!)

Pretty interesting stuff. I just want to smoke the good ones!!!  

Cheers! -Piggy