Buying Blind

[HabanosNJGuy]

This past week I noticed the RyJ Churchills on 24:24.  The Colorado rosado wrappers were absolutely beautiful.  I purchased a box earlier this year from an outside vendor before discovering this wonderful community - box date Dec 2016.  They've been resting since then, but I was curious what my box looked like.  Here it is:

 

This pic makes the wrappers look darker than they actually are. I assure you they are much lighter than the pic on 24:24.  I smoked one and it was OK, tolerable.  I assume that they just need more time.  I worry that I have a bunch of dud boxes.  I understand that any natural product is going to have variations, but the inconsistency in CCs is quite frustrating.  I know it's Cuba being Cuba, etc.  How can anyone spend their money blindly?  I don't know if I'll ever purchase from another online vendor.  Even at a B&M, I would demand to open a box before buying.  It certainly makes me appreciate this forum and the quality that Rob provides.
 

[zappaFREAK]

Rob is simply the best!

[havanaclub]

Those don't look too bad at all.
Buying from rob with inspection is a bonus !!


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[El Hoze]

I wouldn't worry too much. Wrapper color isn't everything, though as you get dialed in on certain sticks it can be a helpful clue. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) the only way to know how a cigar will taste is to smoke it, and you'll even get variability within a box. Part of what makes cigars fun.  I would close the box up for a few months and forget about it. Order some more cigars from Rob and revisit the R&Js later, those are a good winter smoke anyway in my opinion. My bet is time will help them. 

PS - what part of Jersey? I grew up in NJ and have a house down in Lavallette. 

[canadianbeaver]

There are other places in the world that sell beautiful cigars. Honestly!

Perhaps your cigars need lots of rest time in your humidor. Give them some and they will hopefully be great. Also, note RyJ can be iffy after you smoke Ramon Allones and compare.

Yes, this is a wonderful place with friends, cigars and forum. But no need to give up on the world, brother. 

CB

[GrouchoMarx]

Never had a bad box from Rob. Sometimes I just buy a box to try - blind. Never been disappointed.

[RazorbackFan]

I've had pretty good luck lately on blind buys from other vendors (knock on wood), but I go into it knowing the risk. I tend to buy my short term smoking stock, especially smaller vitolas that cost less, at other places and then use 24:24 and Cuntint for the "real" stuff. 

I bought a box of RyJ Short Churchills last year from another vendor and they were absolute garbage, but remarks on this site  have mentioned that this cigar in particular has been pretty disappointing in the main for some time. There are no rosado wrappers and cherry nuances in that box, I assure you. 

Its good to have options, and even better to have a gold standard available here on this site for the "real" stock.

[SCgarman]

Quote

 

You worry that you have a bunch of dud boxes? Your box looks as nice as any other, and just because a box looks pleasing to the eye doesn't mean squat that they will taste heavenly. A pretty wrapper on a cigar isn't much different than a nice dress on a woman. Doesn't mean the person wearing the dress will be wonderful does it? Maybe the vitola is not to your liking or the flavor profile. I would imagine the vast majority of Cuban cigar boxes sold across the world are bought blind. The forum host here offers an alternative, and that is the niche he has found that separates him from other retailers.

[KnightsAnole]

I've had ugly sticks that smoke great and I've had pretty sticks that smoke like garbage. But these are fairly rare occurrences. I would much rather have someone check the box, say it looks good and I'll take the chance from there. Why would anyone buy blind if you don't have to? To save $10 on $300 box? Just doesn't make sense to me. 

[ElJavi76]

The thing that separates Rob from other vendors is his integrity. Rob will sell you some fuglies, but he'll tell you ahead of time. That's what I appreciate about purchasing here.

That being said, I buy from other trusted vendors and the vast majority of those smokes are gorgeous. I've had the ocasional wtf is this moment when opening a box. The first vendor I ever bought CC's from sent me a box of Monte 2s. About half the box looked like ? and they were littered with mold. I took pics and sent to him. He decided he'd replace 4 of them, but on my next full order. Needless to say, I went a different route after that. If you sell something that is sub par, at least describe it and price it as such. 

The idea of not blind buying is laughable. Unless you're gonna buy singles of everything before you buy full boxes... And honestly how many times do you read, first one ROTT was awful they rested and magic. Can't judge a cigar after smoking 1 stick. That's my two cents.

[NSXCIGAR]

My general feeling is that there are certain cigars I simply would never ever buy blind. It's not just wrapper color. Everything Rob sells right down to the seconds is going to be an above average box that he's checked for any major issues and most minor issues like sponginess or overfilling, uniformity, wrapper sheen or oiliness. Certain cigars like Monte 2, Monte 4, PSD4, RyJ Churchill, Trinidad and Cohiba as a marca are cigars with a ton of variation and a lot of crap out there. Buying blind can result in receiving a very, very ugly box of any of these.

That being said, there are certain cigars I have no problem buying blind for the most part. Generally, they are cigars on the lower end of the size and price spectrum like SC El Principe. But I can tell you that if I'm going to drop $400+ on a box of cigars it's probably going to be through Rob. Anything like Trini Fundys, Siglo VI, Lanceros, HUSW--I'd probably be picking them up through Rob. 

That being said, I've had generally good luck with blind purchases of sealed boxes. I've honestly never received what I would call a crap box in over 15 years, but most of my boxes are less than $200. 

[HabanosNJGuy]

Thanks for all the responses, many excellent points.

RyJ is one of my three favorite brands (Bolivar and Partagas being the others).  I did have a few singles of the churchill prior to purchasing this box.  It's one of my favorite cigars.  The one I smoked from the box actually tasted better than expected based on its appearance, but not like previous singles.  Yes, it's a young box and needs more time.  

Forget about this box, forget about the picture.  What gets me is when you watch the video of Rob showing how he grades a box, he looks at it for 2 seconds and judges wrapper quality, construction, etc, then grades it.  You read the descriptions on 24:24 and realize what a great service he provides.  He's like a sommelier.  If I'm spending $300+ for a box, I want some assurance of quality other than I trust this vendor or that a specific cigar from a specific factory and year has been well made.  

[OB1]

I'm a noob but I can't see myself buying anything outside 24:24

[HabanosNJGuy]

I agree, especially for the common stuff that they make a lot of.  

[canadianbeaver]

Here's another comment about this place. Take it or leave it. The 24:24 is a fun and clever cigar Mecca. But the regular store on this site is just fine and I am sure has pretty much the same product.

We have bought stuff from there for years. Boxes are open and inspected before sending.

The 24:24 is a daily cigar thrill.

CB

[earthson]

My concern isn't the quality of the sticks as, ostensibly, every legitimate vendor is receiving the same spectrum of quality.  That said, there is a LOT to be said about how the vendor stores cigars.  Some have classically had issues with continuously storing over- or under-humidified boxes.

Rob and Co are obviously passionate about cigars, and the inspection process that goes on here has almost always resulted in me and others I know receiving better-than-average quality.

[topdiesel]

RyJ is a brand that gets better with a couple + years of age.  revisit them every six months and at some point I would guess you will be pleasantly surprised in about a year and a half.

[LGC]

Unless I'm putting my hands on the actual sticks before purchasing, it's always a blind purchase. I don't judge cigars based on aesthetics alone. No vendor will inspect each individual cigar in a box. A smooth and oily wrapper is no guarantee against plugs, loose fills, and poor blends.

[OB1]

11 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Unless I'm putting my hands on the actual sticks before purchasing, it's always a blind purchase. I don't judge cigars based on aesthetics alone. No vendor will inspect each individual cigar in a box. A smooth and oily wrapper is no guarantee against plugs, loose fills, and poor blends.

That's true, but there are degrees of blindness. Someone trustworthy having looked at the contents is less blind IMO.

[El Presidente]

On 9/16/2017 at 4:45 PM, HabanosNJGuy said:

This past week I noticed the RyJ Churchills on 24:24.  The Colorado rosado wrappers were absolutely beautiful.  I purchased a box earlier this year from an outside vendor before discovering this wonderful community - box date Dec 2016.  They've been resting since then, but I was curious what my box looked like.  Here it is:

 

This pic makes the wrappers look darker than they actually are. I assure you they are much lighter than the pic on 24:24.  I smoked one and it was OK, tolerable.  I assume that they just need more time.  I worry that I have a bunch of dud boxes.  I understand that any natural product is going to have variations, but the inconsistency in CCs is quite frustrating.  I know it's Cuba being Cuba, etc.  How can anyone spend their money blindly?  I don't know if I'll ever purchase from another online vendor.  Even at a B&M, I would demand to open a box before buying.  It certainly makes me appreciate this forum and the quality that Rob provides.
 

That is not a bad box of R&J Churchills at all. 

It should however be more than tolerable. 

Q. 

1. Did you let them rest three months? 

2. Assuming you did, is your RH higher than 66%?

if your answer to Q1 is no then I'm afraid that you are going to have to let them acclimatise to your humidor (63-65% preferably) before being in a position to really judge them. 

Blind purchasing is more problematic this year than most. 

The only service we provide is filtering out the true rubbish and grading the remainder to my preference. 

[HabanosNJGuy]

They've been resting just under three months and box date is Dec 2016.  I'm confident they will be great with more time.  I've had trouble keeping my coolidor under 70 degrees and 65%.  Interestingly, I've recently had a few cigars from my desktop humidor which runs around 63%.  They had more flavor and were much more enjoyable to smoke.  They wouldn't go out as frequently and burned much more evenly.  I learned a lot of my stock is likely too wet.

Your comment about blind purchasing this year reassures me that I found the right place for purchases.  I (and I'm sure everyone here) appreciates your filtering out the true rubbish.  Thank you

[Danimalia]

To me, it depends on the specific cigar. Certain cigars are either inconsistent enough to where you don't want to risk a crap box, or b.) too expensive to not get a very good to great box.

I've had very good experiences with buying blind. But I tend towards the <$250/box end of things. If I bought a box of Fundadores (a cigar people say is hit and miss) or Siglo VIs (expensive), I wouldn't be so cavalier about taking my chances.

[Luca]

I've had some good and also pretty bad experiences buying blind. My last bad purchase was a box of 15 A/T RyJ Short Churchills. The wrappers were dry, the construction was bad. No aroma when opening the tubes. They smoked of just plain tobacco. I have also got some great blind purchases. If you like gambling, then you will be more inclined to buy blind. Unfortunately the odds aren't in your favor! I am much like Danimalia and don't like buying expensive boxes blind. I am also around the < $200 USD range.

Rob always provides great quality cigars and I am so glad that he is around. I don't know many people that inspect their stock before purchasing. The grading system on FoH is brilliant and coupled with the Australian CUNTAS store and the 24:24 & 24:72 sales makes buying cigars a much better experience. Not to mention the great people on this forum. I have made many friends already on this great forum!

[Shaunster]

90% of my purchases are blind, only had a few disapointments and they are the usual suspects really, monte 2 and party D4. Being in the UK the 24:24 etc are up at bad times for me, and the FOH store is quite a bit more expensive than its rivals.

 

[Fugu]

On 17.9.2017 at 11:03 PM, Brandon said:

No vendor will inspect each individual cigar in a box

Not exactly true. Depends on the relationship you maintain with your trusted vendors....

And - trust is a thing that needs to be nurtured and nourished on both sides, in particular in this business.