How comfortable are you about "Autonomous Cars"

[El Presidente]

I was reading this morning that testing of autonomous cars has reached a stage that they are within two years of Govt approval (here). 

I have mixed feelings. 

* great for my elderly parents. You reach that stage of life when an autonomous car would help them maintain their independence. 

* I don't trust Govt. How long before they play with the rules and have a vision of enforced road compliance for all. 

 

Your thoughts? 

 

 

Testing of self-driving electric Chevrolet Bolts began in Arizona about two weeks ago. It's the second city for GM's real-world tests. Autonomous Bolts with Cruise Automation software have been driving around San Francisco since May 20

http://phys.org/news/2016-08-gm-autonomous-car-scottsdale-arizona.html

[garnett]

So would you be able to go to the bar get loaded then tell your car to take you home?

[Fuzz]

The technology is still in its infancy, in my opinion. Until all cars are able to talk to each other, I would be very hesitant to rely on self-drive vehicles. The main problems I see with self-drive are; the number of old vehicles on the road, the age of GPS data (outdated and hasn't taken into account tectonic drift), and most importantly, the number of idiots on the road.

[MIKA27]

Even if they ironed out the glitches and autonomous cars were proven to be 100% safe, I still like being in control. Not only that but I like driving.

Will autonomous cars ever really be safe with hacking being so prolific? Is that the next terrorist target, people during their daily commute to and from school, work etc? I could never trust computers purely because "Someone" always finds a way.

I think it does have its place for people with disabilities or the elderly for sure and is a great idea for the near future.

[skalls]

Don't like the concept.  Even if they fleshed it out more I wouldn't trust it.  Enjoy driving (except long drives into the sun when I'm hungover).

[Cep]

Its So not a good idea.  

 

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

The technology is still in its infancy, in my opinion. Until all cars are able to talk to each other, I would be very hesitant to rely on self-drive vehicles. The main problems I see with self-drive are; the number of old vehicles on the road, the age of GPS data (outdated and hasn't taken into account tectonic drift), and most importantly, the number of idiots on the road.

Yes, GPS needs to be re-done urgently. Not updated since 1994 and you are spot on about tectonic drift.

[polarbear]

The cynic in me doubts it will happen in my life time as the Aus Government would loose too much money thanks to a lack of speeding fines and other traffic infringements, not to mention putting the entire taxi industry out of business.
Too many people have too much to loose by having cars that don't require human beings piloting them.

I like the idea in principle but I doubt I would feel comfortable getting into a car and having an iPhone control it

When I went to Copenhagen a couple of years back I always had to sit in the back seat of any cars I was driven in as sitting in the passenger seat on the right side of the car (they're left hand drive over there) messed with my head a little.
My brain couldn't reconcile why I was sitting on the right side of the car and had no steering wheel or peddles, especially when we'd pull up behind a car and my right foot would instinctively try and put itself through the floor (the Danes are "late brakers")

That being said, there are times after a few beers, when the missus and I end up arguing who is going to drive who home from the BBQ that I think self drive cars would be a great idea

[Danimalia]

I've come around pretty quickly, and now I feel pretty comfortable with them, really. I live in California. I trust robots to drive safely more than my fellow Californians. And really, we have fairly low rates of traffic fatalities compared with poor and developing countries. Driving in Guatemala was insane.

 

I think the advantage to older people and people with disabilities is a major selling point as well. Cars a great equalizer. It will create a lot of opportunities for disabled people to live more normal lives. Plus, selfishly, I like the idea of being able to nap for a bit on the drive home from work, and maybe read the paper on the way in 

[ultramag]

I'm still not real happy about anti-lock brakes if that gives you any idea what camp I'm in. I want to be in control of what I'm operating. I may go out here and have a crash like none before tomorrow, but I want it to be MY crash. I drive class 8 trucks for a living here in the States, and up to now most of this new fangled technology isn't what it's cracked up to be IMO. We have on-board outward facing "event" recorders, side and front impact collision sensors, and something that tracks our position in the lanes of travel.

The event recorders can go either way, same as the facts of a crash, eye witnesses etc. so I see them as a push. The only reason they aren't inward facing and recording every moment is because of a labor contract. The front and side sensors are a pain and frequently react incorrectly. Example, in a curve, quite often the front sensor will pick up a car in a lane next to you and the brakes are applied automatically. The braking can be quite hard, and well, call me old-fashioned, but if the brakes on the 80,000 pound vehicle that bends in 3 or 4 places I'm operating are gonna be slammed on, I like to know it's coming. The sensors that track lane position are equally as flawed. They emit the most grating sound that scares the bejeezus out of you and do so quite often when I'm driving right where I want to be. Get in a little construction where the lane markings are messed up and you're crossing lanes irregularly etc., or have some ice and snow start covering up the lane markings then forget about it. Ice and snow also covers up the sensors easily, especially the front one, and causes them to fail as well.

Sorry to rant...just a sore subject with me. The libertarian in me despises it on principle and the guy who stayed in trucking to be away from the man and have virtually no work related contact with anyone while taking care of business my way en-route hates it. Fortunately, I'll be done before it's much more than an inconvenience.

[cigcars]

      They've already recorded a few deaths that have occurred in, I believe, Tesla brand cars that are self-driving due to glitches in the system. Nearly any car repair expert will highly recommend that you NEVER buy a car brand new in its showroom release in case there may be unsafe problems. The cars almost always end up with some recall problem, and you SURE don't want the problem to be non-working brakes, etc. I'm not trusting of the self-driving car proto-types out there. Even highly reliable Toyota and Lexus with their self-parking mechanisms are reported to take about 20 minutes to finally park themselves!

[LordAnubis]

Pres i am scared enough of your car with that funky cruise control thing.

[in0gravity]

4 hours ago, MIKA27 said:

Even if they ironed out the glitches and autonomous cars were proven to be 100% safe, I still like being in control. Not only that but I like driving.

Exactely. However as long as these electrical cars are powered by lithium ion batteries they cannot be safe. The key word here: sponateous combustion. Look at the recent Tesla accidents or the crash test of the Chevrolet Bolt, passed it with flying colores however was on fire two days later!

For me the risks are too high plus I prefer to being in control while driving.

[gweilgi]

The real problem, IMO, is that such cars would have to be programmed to make moral decisions.  Example: your self-guided car is driving along on a road.  Suddenly a child runs out onto the road in front of the car, too close to stop safely.  There is oncoming traffic, and there are pedestrians on the pavement.  What will the computer do?  Will it decide to avoid the child at all costs and either swerve into the oncoming traffic (thereby endangering you the driver), will it swerve the other way and climb the pavementt (risking the death of pedestrians) or will it keep braking in a straight line and mow down the child?  This is a moral dilemma, and not one I would feel at all comfortable for a machine to take on my behalf.

The other issue, of course, is one of liability.  I may be the registered owner of a self-driving car, but with the onboard computer taking on the responsibility of actually controlling the vehicle, who has the legal responsibility?  Who will be liable if and when things go pear-shaped?  

[CaptainQuintero]

Amazing idea but I think in reality it will be severely limited due to the nature of small roads and country driving. It will be impossible in most of Europe apart from the big motorway systems

I think it will come but it will be only for motorway driving ie you make your own way onto the motorways then the ai takes over completely until you get to your exit. It will probably transform the delivery/transport/haulage/logistics world but I'm holding my breath for the everyday driving side

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, gweilgi said:

The other issue, of course, is one of liability.  I may be the registered owner of a self-driving car, but with the onboard computer taking on the responsibility of actually controlling the vehicle, who has the legal responsibility?  Who will be liable if and when things go pear-shaped?  

Same situation as commercial aircraft. A plane may have an autopilot, but the pilot is still responsible if things go pear shaped.

For self-drive to really work, all major roads need to be isolated from the public (ie no pedestrian crossings or sidewalks). In residential areas or small roads/laneways, self-drive is deactivated and the driver takes over. Until the day all cars are controlled by a central computer system managing all traffic, the driver will still need to sit in the front seat just like a pilot does. None of this reading a newspaper, taking a nap, or goofing off in general (that also means no hanky-panky!).

[wabashcr]

I like to drive, and I don't trust corruptible computers to navigate thousands of 2 ton missiles around each other.  Besides, who will I honk at and give the finger to when one of them inevitably cuts me off or drives too slowly in the fast lane?

[Colt45]

I imagine it would only be a matter of time before we're not allowed to pilot our own cars.

And, has anyone seen "The Terminator" !?!

[RijkdeGooier]

I have come to the conclusion that for everyday use/commuting it would be wonderful. 

 

As long as we can be allowed to drive out own cars as an added option for a nice drive on a casual trip. 

[scap99]

Just looking at how many cars on the road still don't have Bluetooth built in; I'm feeling pretty sure I'll be gone before cars are turned into an automated abomination that reminds those of us old enough to remember of the Atari Centipede game.

[Fugu]

Actually, I don't think it will be coming, at least not in the currently anticipated form. Would mean taking the wrong path.

As a regular renter-user, I get to enjoy driving quite a range of different models with all kinds of the latest assistance systems. While I love some of them, many are just gimmick. Some give you a good foretaste of what is to come in the future. E.g. active cruise control (radar-assisted speed and distance control) can be fun and be good for a much more relaxing driving when in heavy or jammed traffic. On the other hand - with most current systems, depending on car maker and on individual settings - you always lose a bit of dynamic when you are not actively anticipating driving situations. In particular in situations of unexpected manouvers of your beloved fellow drivers, where current systems can be failing completely when you are not alert. It might be a different case once all individual road users would be controlled by and linked to a common system. And in order to function, all would need to participate and to comply with such a system. But, who'd really want that?! Really need that, I ask?! Never would I give away control and responsibility of my own driving. And not to forget, for me, driving is fun. When I drive I want to drive myself!

If one doesn't want to drive individually - and there are sound reasons and situations where it is not the 'most efficient' means of voyaging and transportation - then there is a much better, much more energy-efficient and way more comfortable system - called railway....! R&D means should be directed into perfectioning that system and making it more attractive net-schedule-wise and fare-wise, instead of wasting ressources to the collapsing individual long-range car-traffic industry.

Economically, it is making much more sense to do the medium- to long-distance travelling (for which such an autonomous car-system would be primarily conceived for) using train or even airplane, and hiring the individual mobile system, such as car, motorbike, bike, e-bike etc., on-site.

 

[Fugu]

8 hours ago, JohnS said:

10 hours ago, Fuzz said:

The technology is still in its infancy, in my opinion. Until all cars are able to talk to each other, I would be very hesitant to rely on self-drive vehicles. The main problems I see with self-drive are; the number of old vehicles on the road, the age of GPS data (outdated and hasn't taken into account tectonic drift), and most importantly, the number of idiots on the road.

Yes, GPS needs to be re-done urgently. Not updated since 1994 and you are spot on about tectonic drift.

John and Fuzz you are kidding, right? Tectonic drift - huhu... - not sure whether I got that.

But just in case not - GPS is being closely controlled and adjusted permanently in real time. Ephemerid data is being updated on average every 2 hours. There is a grid of orbit- and earth-based reference stations controlling, correcting and occasionally adjusting orbital paths of satellites and for correction of pseudorange signals. That is holding for GPS (Navstar) as well as for Glonass and the Galileo system just being set-up.
With differential GPS you get real-time errors of only a few centimetres and can tweak up to only millimetres.

That being said, a traffic-control system could never be based on such a sat-system for navigation alone. These systems are always prone to errors, interferences and malfunctions. And that would be a highly sensitive, safety-relevant feature. They would have to implement additional systems.

[Fuzz]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a22125/australia-gps/

[Fugu]

Haha, ok, now I see where that does come from. Thanks Fuzz!

Well, that's actually not the "fault" of the GPS-system, that's the omission of the national geodesy survey (i.e. Geoscience Australia). The GPS and other satnav systems 'only' provide a highly precise reference geoid (an approximated model body of the earth's surface). Of course national/local geodetic mapping needs to be adjusted and re-referenced on a regular temporal basis to be always traceable to the WGS84 reference geoid, with highest accuracy.
If you don't do that you are prone to systematic errors of course. It is already a matter of which projection model you use, potentially resulting in positional deviations much larger than any annual continental drift.

That's like you were saying the Chinese language is crap, just because you don't understand it.

It's astonishing to learn Australia hasn't done any updates since 1994!
Today, even streets are being built with Diff-GPS beacons attached to construction machines, rolling out the tarmac with cm-accuracy! Guess in Oz you'll still have to take a few extra turns...

Ok, kidding aside, in fact, I much doubt they wouldn't have done geodetic updates before. Geodesy will still have been capable of accurate geolocating. What seems to be new now, is that Australia is adjusting their "GPS data" meaning that if you are using a GPS-receiver, you will be able to more directly relate your GPS Long/Lat/Alt read-out to local position without much conversion work needed into local geodetic systems.

(The report is a poor example of headline-grabbing, not providing much useful info and leading to confusion among readers.)

[Fuzz]

You'd be surprised how inaccurate GPS is in Australia. The number of times my GPS (both car and mobile phone at the same time) tells me I'm on a parallel street, or even in a totally different location, is staggering.