If cubans weren't cubans, do you even care?

[FLB03TT]

I have heard from more than once source Cuba is using tobacco from other countries in their cigars. You know, anything IS possible.

Maybe this explains the occasional crappy stick from any given CC box.

[saintsmokealot]

I like what I like (and know the difference) and to think Cuba is using outside tobacco is ludicrous.

[Ginseng]

As a few have already stated. I would care if I were being cheated somehow.

Same here. As long as I know what I'm getting, I can receive it properly.

+ 1 zillion...

I don't believe anyone can disconnect the history, tradition, Cuban dress box artwork, banding and Cuban Puro mystique from the smoking experience. It's all deeply intertwined in the pleasure we derive from a one hour smoking session with a CC.

IMHO, those who believe it's JUST about the taste of the stick regardless of what nations tobacco is in it are not being honest with themselves about all the elements involved with their smoking experience. Perhaps there is some minor "forbidden fruit" aspect, as an American, involved in my thinking, but it don't believe that effectively negates my analysis- regardless of ones nationality.

Well said, sir. So true. I sometimes think new guys are quick to join on and say "screw that bands, screw the marcas, screw the packaging. A stick is a stick is a stick! Nothing matters but the smoke" To this, I say take a step back. Understand what it is that you are engaging with. You don't have to say a prayer to Sr. Robaina and all the cigar saints each time you smoke, but give your Habanos a moment now and then. Reflection leads to a richer appreciation than merely the sensory. Things are changing so fast and so hard...who knows for how much longer the past will feed the future of the Havana cigar.

Wilkey

[Smallclub]

I have heard from more than once source Cuba is using tobacco from other countries in their cigars.

In all respect, does it mean "more than one B&M shop in the USA"?

[Charley]

I smoke both Cuban and non Cuban cigars and it really wouldn't matter to me. I smoke for the enjoyment of the experience and the flavor. Origin doesn't make the experience, good cigars and good company make the experience.

[1LegLance]

Funny thing is I buy Habanos because they are cheaper for the taste I want.

I love my $2 Jose Piedras and if I could get as good a $2 stick at my local shop I would,

I love my $7 RASS and again if I could get something as good for the same or cheaper I would buy locally.

I love my $10 RAG's and there is nothing in my local shop that comparies at that price.

In everything I can I try to support my local biz, but with cigars I risk shipping issues, exchange rate changes and delays in order to ge the best bang for my buck.

All that said once I do have a cigar in my hand I enjoy thinking about the many folks that were involved, the packaging, the history and the way my family and friends get to share the experience.

Oh and no way I buy into the idea that bulk tobacco is shipped INTO Cuba from other countries and that is being hidden from the cigar world.

[CdnLimitada]

I've always disagreed about the RA Extra. I've commented many times on here defending it. I have roughly 8-10 boxes of RA Extra, all HQ or PSP hand picked by Rob. I've smoked through about 3 boxes so far, and I have yet to have a bad one, a plugged one or one that has any kind of an NC taste or characteristics. My buddies who have smoked mine have all agreed. Now they are even smoking better,(had one last week). 3 full boxes with no examples of NC taste and qualities is a good enough scope of measurement for me to know that I love "MY BOXES". I emphasize that because I have probably smoked 20 other RA Extras from some of my buddy's boxes, that were not hand picked for quality and some bought elsewhere, and I would say that out of that 20, 5 were as good as mine, 10 were nothing bad but nothing great, (maybe needed to be laid down longer) 5 were actually crap.

Even in the crap ones, I still didn't see the NC comparison. I saw more of a bland, ammonia, bitter characteristic, which I see in many CC's.

I'm very happy with my boxes of RA Extra's, I love them, balanced and refined creamy coffee, leather, toffee chocolate bombs.

With as many mixed reviews and comments on loving them and hating them, I dare say this may be one of the most recent examples above any other cigar (at least EL) for the importance of handpicking for quality.

I have had 3-4 of these gifted or traded over the last few years. One of the worst cc cigars I've smoked. Harsh as hell. They look good with that band and dark chocolate leaf though!

As for the original post:

To me it comes down to quality. If I order food from a great restaurant that normally supplies superior quality meat and I found out they started adding Mc Donalds or Taco Bell meat-in-a-tube as a filler, I would be pissed. Especially if they advertised that they have superior quality meat.

If the quality of the NC industry was fantastic, I don't think we have this question really coming up. That is not to say that there are not some good NC companies or smokes out there. It is also not to say that every CC is the greatest either.

[Ken Gargett]

i don't actually care but that said, i would want to know. i'd be annoyed if they are deceiving us. if they are including tobacco from other sources, simply say so.

[Vortigan]

Balls on the block here, but yes, it does matter to me. I love the history and romance of the Cuban cigar industry, and would feel very disappointed if Habanos were farting in my face by blending in non-Cuban tobacco. It's about authenticity and integrity, no matter how many crap CCs I have smoked.

I am off like mind. The experience of Habanos is about so much more than just a tube of burning leaves. I find it rather mercenary and unenlightened to simply say "if I like it, who gives an eff?" That's not enough for me.

A cigar may just be a cigar, but a Habanos is a tradition. Something special, ineffable, wasted if relegated to just another sensory experience stripped of an appreciation for the literal and metaphorical soil from which it springs.

Wilkey

I agree.But I also think that the knowledge of enough people feeling this way can and has led to some complacency and the subsequent production of crap cigars.A sort of "Whatever,they'll buy it anyway" attitude.

It sometimes seems to me also that this is compounded by some smokers almost having a pre-acceptance that a few cigars out of every box will be sub-standard just because it's an organic,hand produced product and "Well,that's just Cuba being Cuba".I think HSA has too often been issued a fool's pardon.

[Colt45]

I sometimes think new guys are quick to join on and say "screw that bands, screw the marcas, screw the packaging. A stick is a stick is a stick! Nothing matters but the smoke"

Perhaps it's not just newer smokers. Isn't it possible that people who've been around a while, who understand the process - the growing, the processing, the rolling, etc, and have an understanding of history and tradition - might also feel that some or much of the romantic notion attached to these products are really on our part?

I agree that we should probably have at least a basic understanding of some of the history, but I'm not sure how much of that I can attach to today's cigars.

...who knows for how much longer the past will feed the future of the Havana cigar.

The Colosseum still stands in Rome, but an icon of a long gone past - kind of like a Cuban corona

[FLB03TT]

The Colosseum still stands in Rome, but an icon of a long gone past - kind of like a Cuban corona

Regretfully, for some, the world continues to change. No one can alter this progression. Reminiscing with a smile, rather than a frown, is more enjoyable for me.

At least todays' Cuban corona betters todays' NC corona- by a considerable margin.

[earthson]

I wouldn't care in the slightest if they're including Nicaraguan or Dominican backer - whatever they're doing, it works for me.

Good tobacco is good tobacco. Now if they're being infused, I'd want to know... I have a specific hatred for artificial or "natural" (i.e.: lab-extracted) flavorings.

[Bclass1]

Balls on the block here, but yes, it does matter to me. I love the history and romance of the Cuban cigar industry, and would feel very disappointed if Habanos were farting in my face by blending in non-Cuban tobacco. It's about authenticity and integrity, no matter how many crap CCs I have smoked.

When all's said and done though, I think the rumours are bullshit. NC producers will try any trick in the book to associate with the aura of Cuban cigars, and saying that Cuba uses Dominican, Nicaraguan, etc., tobacco is just a part of that. And anyway, no matter how well the Cubans might be able to hold a secret, do you really believe that some sort of corroboration from the (NC) producers' side wouldn't have leaked out at some point? It would all be upside from their point of view... not forgetting, of course, that many, many of the NC producers are Cuban exiles or their descendants, who would only allow trade with Cuba over their dead bodies.

This as well. As Philski stated earlier, I also put faith in the integrity in which Habanos stands for. To me, if you wanted a blended NC cigar, they're a dime a dozen when considering how many brands there are too choose from. I'm not discrediting the entire NC cigar industry but there's no authenticity in that.

What goes into producing a Cuban puro encompasses everything that I enjoy about cigars. Taste is obviously the overall benchmark, but tell me the last time a NC satisfied the flavor profile we get with Cuban tobacco..

[sw15825]

I would care. Just to know the truth. I am intrigued by the history and traditions of the Havana cigar, but in the end I buy for taste of what I like to smoke. I am always skeptical of conspiracy claims. So show me the proof. Hasn't this rumor been going on for a very long time? I feel It's one of the ways that the NC producers try to describe their products more like Cuban cigars. " The closest thing to a Cuban you will ever smoke", "Cubanesque", Made by Cuban rollers ect.

For example:

"Ohh you don't think they taste like Cubans?, Well you know they roll in Non-Cuban tabacco into your Cuban cigars, so just try our NC cigars again and see if yo might like them now! "

" What! No you still don't like them !, Well you are smoking NC tabacco anyhow and are being fooled! Please try our smokes again !!!!" " No, you are smoking Cubans exclusively now?"

" YOU COMMUNIST !!!"

For entertainment purposes only.

[Ginseng]

I agree.But I also think that the knowledge of enough people feeling this way can and has led to some complacency and the subsequent production of crap cigars.A sort of "Whatever,they'll buy it anyway" attitude.

It sometimes seems to me also that this is compounded by some smokers almost having a pre-acceptance that a few cigars out of every box will be sub-standard just because it's an organic,hand produced product and "Well,that's just Cuba being Cuba".I think HSA has too often been issued a fool's pardon.

Yes, on the supply side, I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, isn't this sort of behind the Monte Open brand extensions? A Cuban is a Cuban is a Cuban after all. Historic brand, hip new extension, folks'll snap it up. Not to beat on the Opens too much as I haven't sampled any from that line yet.

And well said on the second point as well. Your post is exceptionally incisive! I do hear that "script" being trotted out almost as if by knee-jerk reflex. In reality, if we smokers felt we had a channel back into HSA and our voice actually made a difference, it would likely not be the case. It has become a trained response to frustration. A frustration coupled with despair at ever being able to make a difference. In effect, it has become a mental defense mechanism. A ready-made inoculation against disappointment.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

You cut it right to the quick, Colt!

Wilkey

[sw15825]

Yes, on the supply side, I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, isn't this sort of behind the Monte Open brand extensions? A Cuban is a Cuban is a Cuban after all. Historic brand, hip new extension, folks'll snap it up. Not to beat on the Opens too much as I haven't sampled any from that line yet.

And well said on the second point as well. Your post is exceptionally incisive! I do hear that "script" being trotted out almost as if by knee-jerk reflex. In reality, if we smokers felt we had a channel back into HSA and our voice actually made a difference, it would likely not be the case. It has become a trained response to frustration. A frustration coupled with despair at ever being able to make a difference. In effect, it has become a mental defense mechanism. A ready-made inoculation against disappointment.

Wilkey

I agree and to include most new releases, L.E. and RE. We (More experienced brothers) have to search to find something we really like, and yet they sell like hotcakes! Not an aficionados hobby anymore, but Big business driven by the profits, imo.

[Colt45]

You cut it right to the quick, Colt!

Purely conversational

While smoking (and sometimes in general thought) , I often do give consideration to what goes into the making of a cigar. I often catch myself looking at the cigar I'm smoking. Regardless of country of origin (I don't discriminate). Obviously, there is lineage, but every now and then I feel the people who we think might be the ones to carry on tradition are the the blindest / deafest.

There has been quite a bit of discussion lately regarding the lifting of the embargo and all that entails. With regard to cigars, for me personally the end of the embargo means much, much less than the end of the monopoly....

And finally, I have to ask - what is the tradition of the Cuban cigar? Is it more than farmers, brokers, factories producing a product (people trying to earn a living?). Was the art of bands and dress boxes intended to be more than just a way for one producer (brand) to separtate themselves from others?

Did they apply the same romanticism to their work that we sometimes do?

[Ginseng]

Purely conversational

...

And finally, I have to ask - what is the tradition of the Cuban cigar? Is it more than farmers, brokers, factories producing a product (people trying to earn a living?). Was the art of bands and dress boxes intended to be more than just a way for one producer (brand) to separtate themselves from others?

Did they apply the same romanticism to their work that we sometimes do?

The tradition is the dance. The musicians. The setting. The wine. All of it. Including the battles, the intrigue, the sweat.

We all have parts to play. I've never considered tradition to be something that's consumed. I think of the Habanos tradition as my turn on the dance floor. Taking my turn. I guess in that way, we can afford ourselves a little bit of romanticism.

Still, I think there is no more penetrating group of clear-eyed observers and incisive critics of Habanos as a business built on the tradition than the membership of FOH...that's what keeps it all real.

Wilkey

[FLB03TT]

I, for one, want a spot on Wilkey's dance card. What a great analogy! Garth Brooks song "The Dance" further illuminates this concept. The great sticks, the not so great sticks, it's all part of the grand CC Two Step.

Long live FOH!!

[nick2021]

No, origin doesn't matter as long as it smokes good. I do tend to enjoy CCs more than NCs....

[Lotusguy]

Yeah, Urs Portman also claimed knowledge of NC wrappers (or was it binders?) being used in Cuba.

Consider the source... anyone with those claims seems to have something to gain from these rumours.

[Philski]

Yeah, Urs Portman also claimed knowledge of NC wrappers (or was it binders?) being used in Cuba.

Consider the source... anyone with those claims seems to have something to gain from these rumours.

An unattributed claim, no matter the standing of the source passing it on, is still an unattributed claim.

Lack of solid evidence or proof = possible bullshit. Portmann also sells NC cigars. I think we're in agreement?

[Lotusguy]

An unattributed claim, no matter the standing of the source passing it on, is still an unattributed claim.

Lack of solid evidence or proof = possible bullshit. Portmann also sells NC cigars. I think we're in agreement?

Yes, we are

[PuroDan]

I highly doubt that there is anything but Cuban tobacco in a Cuban cigar.