UpInSmoak Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 It was just a bit of fun I don't own a mine or a mill! I genuinely didn't know unions were seen as negative by anyone apart from a few company owners who would rather see less pay/more working hours etc. is this just in the US or are there any other countries/members from countries which this is a big issue? I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I can for the US, and in particular California. Unions are bankrupting my state as I type this. Several municipalities(cities) have already filed bankruptcy as they no longer have the funds to meet their commitments. While other types of depts are included, overwhelming these debts are due to the ridiculous terms the labor unions are "entitled". More and more Californian cities will be filing bankruptcy in short and long term future. it's inevitable. This is simply not enough money. And I couldn't agree more with Greg. Unions were necessary 100 yrs ago. In today's day and age, with the amount of legislation for workers rights, the union model is antiquated and failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokum Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Good old Illinois checking in. Remember that crooked politicians are the ones that gave public employee unions all these promises of benefits. Now that they allowed cronies to fleece pension funds and they are broke , they are looking to screw the regular working union joe out of his pension. The blame lies in crooked politicians and crooked union leadership. Not the poor bastard working his butt off. The Hostess folks were in deep doo do for years. Many concessions were made in years past. I think this particular union just said to hell with it lets call their bluff. Unfortunately they were wrong but you can bet Hostess will be back as a non union shop. Nothing to see here. Just crooks screwing crooks again with the honest worker taking the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backslide Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Unions had their place 130 years ago, now not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpInSmoak Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Good old Illinois checking in. Remember that crooked politicians are the ones that gave public employee unions all these promises of benefits. Now that they allowed cronies to fleece pension funds and they are broke , they are looking to screw the regular working union joe out of his pension. The blame lies in crooked politicians and crooked union leadership. Not the poor bastard working his butt off. The Hostess folks were in deep doo do for years. Many concessions were made in years past. I think this particular union just said to hell with it lets call their bluff. Unfortunately they were wrong but you can bet Hostess will be back as a non union shop. Nothing to see here. Just crooks screwing crooks again with the honest worker taking the hit. Amen Brother. That about sums it up. Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 When unions work for the fair and equal treatment of employees (and not just their members), that good. However, when they hold a country's economy to ransom, enforce closed shop workplaces, or exploit/extort employers, then it's time for them to go the way of the dodo. Unions have accumulated too much power over the years, and now the balance of power has shifted heavily in the unions favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGC Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Unions are partly to blame for the economic situation that we are in at the moment. They have no true place in today's society. At all of the job sites that I have been to in the past, I usually made less money (after overtime) than those without any college degrees (power plants, chemical plants, and pulp mills). Wages are over inflated in many areas across the USA. How is a small business supposed to be motivated to set up shop in the US, when they have to deal with high wages and unions bullying them around? Simply blaming China for the loss of jobs is not going to solve anything. Outside of the US, manufacturing jobs aren't going to give everyone big pensions, etc., etc. Besides inflation and costs of living factors, I don't believe that someone should deserve raises for doing the same job that have been doing for years. They should earn that increased pay by working more hours, taking on more responsibility, or obtaining further training and job skills. They shouldn't be able to bully an employer into paying them more without any true justifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest robustog Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Here is a recent experience I had with unions: We were setting up computer equipment for a show at a venue controlled by the union. We were giving some rules. You’re not allowed to touch the equipment until it is unpacked, setup, connected to the network, plugged in and turned on. You are not allowed to unplug, tear down, pack up or move any equipment. Equipment including laptops must be connected to an electrical outlet by a union electrician. So… The counters were setup and ready, guys showed up to run the network cables, they laid them out and sat down. Paying by the hour I asked what was up. “We are not allowed to touch the boxes, we have to wait for the guys that do that. When I suggested we go to another location and run those cables they said “That is a different work order we have to finish this one or it goes back to the bottom of the queue”. So we sat. About ½ hour later the guys showed up to unpack the equipment, took the 2 hours to unpack 8 laptops and set them up, 2 hours to unpack and setup 8 printers. Network guys connected the cables and sat. I went to turn the on and was stopped. “We need the electrician to plug them in, can’t touch them or we get fined”. So we sat. The electrician shows up, plugs in 4 of the 8 and everyone just stops. I said what is up? “Break time, have to stop or we get fined”. So we sat. After break they come back to work, for the last setup the power cable was just a little short and we had to move the booth about 1’. “Can’t move the booth or we get fined, you have to get the guys who do that. So we sat. Now a guy rides up in a little cart and tells me “just to let you know, in 5 minutes it will be 4:00pm, the guys will be on double time, do you want them to keep working”. So finally the guy shows up to move the booth 1’ and the electrician plugs in the last two wires and the network guys turn on the equipment. 5 guys 60 per hour regular time, 120 overtime and 11.5 hours later we had 8 laptops and 8 printers setup. In the non-union venues I do the same myself in less than 1 hour. Packing up was not quite as bad but it took 4 times the amount of time with triple the amount of people then when we do it ourselves. This was just the computer equipment to check people in, this happened in all aspects of the show. It is a shame for the venue because we draw thousands of people to the shows and spend well over 1m. We won’t return though just to be held hostage. The unions were a very important intended to protect the people, which it did. I don’t think the intent was to ever become like it is today. As far as pensions go, when the average life expectancy was much shorter and you had more people working then retired the model worked. These companies can’t survive with people working 20 – 30 years and retiring with pensions which will payout for as much as or more than the years worked. You can’t have more people retired and getting paid then you have working, it just won’t work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khomeinist Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Comedy that the rhetoric has changed from employees being bullied to workers bullying employers. I would bring poorly-designed 'free-trade' agreements into the debate but I will (sorta) refrain. I don't like closed shop policies but collective bargaining is very important in many industries. The 'at least you have a job from a benign employer' arguments are very 19th Century and frankly lead to more militant and less constructive union-management interactions. The Hostess situation needed binding arbitration. I am not convinced that the private equity ownership stake did not push for asset and brand liquidation via these failed negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is this a political thread? I thought we were talking about snowballs and ding dongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest robustog Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is this a political thread? I thought we were talking about snowballs and ding dongs. Nothing better than a deep fried twinkie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGC Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is this a political thread? I thought we were talking about snowballs and ding dongs. I'm not allowed to share my ding dong with other people..... I'm married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croz71 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Do you understand that employers have unions and legal representation? In Western Australia this is called CCI (chamber of commerce and industry). So what a lot of you are saying, is its ok for business to get legal help and unite in their push against workers but we are not allowed to get organised and legally informed to help protect our jobs and our kids jobs. I've worked in non union big business sites and union big business sites. I can tell you 110% that my family and I are 1000 times better off with unions. Unions are about safety at work and protecting the working rights we already have. Big business don't want an educated and organized workforce. They want sheep!!!! AMWU Delegate and proud to be union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoe83 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Is this a political thread? I thought we were talking about snowballs and ding dongs. Since when did business and economy become synonymous with politics? Oh wait.. it isn't.. okay carry on everybody. Some of us do enjoy an intellectually stimulateing conversation once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondog Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Its called threadjacking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoe83 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Its called Discussing... Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 And I thought this was about twinkies. Human nature makes me laugh sometime. Very sad about the employees. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.507431,-98.671659 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokum Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Since when did business and economy become synonymous with politics? Oh wait.. it isn't.. okay carry on everybody. Some of us do enjoy an intellectually stimulateing conversation once in a while. It's ALL about politics. Therein lies the problem. The two cant be separated anymore. Anyway....Suzy Q's are still my favorite. They will be back. I sure hope so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassman Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Twinkies are crap. Tastycake rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Next herf I am bringing a couple of boxes of Vachon Jos Louis, Half moons (which called Lune Moons because we read the French like Ontario Ding Dongs). And maybe a couple of boxes of chocolate Swiss rolls. We can raise a piece of Canadian history in honour for our Hostesses in the US of eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 This morning on CNN there was news that a company called Sun Capital may bring Hostess back from the dumper. The article had lots of financial info etc, but the paragraph that warmed my heart and nearly brought me to tears (of joy) was this: Moreover, he (Sun Capital CEO Marc Leder) doesn't buy the argument that Hostess is a long-term loser due to the changing American diet: Don't worry, Twinkies will survive! "Do you see M&Ms or Mars having any trouble? Or Haagen Dazs or Godiva? People like to indulge in desserts. Obviously you don't eat only Twinkies for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but people love them as a snack." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scdalak Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not So Fast...l predict shelves will be stocked by Xmas.. To all those nostalgic Hostess Fanatics who paid $500 for a box of Twinkies on EBay.. http://www.boston.co...kapI/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxnutz Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I hope the news is correct, employer and employees can come to some sort of agreement and keep all those folks gainfully employed. Reading this thread reminded me how white collar the cigar pastime has become (or has always been). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can help with importing these into Michigan..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangolf18 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Never really been a fan of twinkies. On the other hand, the cupcakes are freaking great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeafLover Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This is gonna hurt my ebay Twinkie business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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