Cohiba Consensus?

[Fuzz]

I respectfully disagree. I would argue that flavour does cost money.

Take for example aged wrappers and leaf stock. It costs money to keep them in storage and ensure that they stay in good condition. The risk in tying up stock for years on end, hoping that they turn out the way you expect, has a financial impact.

Another example would be ice wine or bortrytis. You literally put your entire crop at risk in waiting for the right conditions to harvest. The end cost must take into account the loss in harvest yield due to waiting for the right conditions.

If flavour doesn't cost money, I'd be buying my wine in $10 goonbags instead of $50 bottles.

[ramon_cojones]

To clarify fuzz, I'm referring to flavor as a subjective element. It doesn't cost more to actually blend a d5 vs a d4 does it? How is one tobacco more expensive than another tobacco? These are arbitrary implications, tobacco vs tobacco not tobacco vs various processes.

[CanuckSARTech]

To clarify fuzz, I'm referring to flavor as a subjective element. It doesn't cost more to actually blend a d5 vs a d4 does it? How is one tobacco more expensive than another tobacco? These are arbitrary implications, tobacco vs tobacco not tobacco vs various processes.

I think Fuzz' reference is to the extra aging that Cohiba tobaccos are put through as per the earlier examples, and to the added cost (rightly or wrongly) of the obtaining and sorting the "medio tempo" leaves for the BHK line, etc. If we are talking a D5 LE, then yes, it costs more as those tobaccos for EL's were aged and stored longer.

[Fuzz]

To clarify fuzz, I'm referring to flavor as a subjective element. It doesn't cost more to actually blend a d5 vs a d4 does it? How is one tobacco more expensive than another tobacco? These are arbitrary implications, tobacco vs tobacco not tobacco vs various processes.

Without knowing exactly which tobacco is used for a D5 as opposed to a D4, there could potentially be a difference in cost.

Take two plantations that are side by side. Farm A has superior farming techniques and higher overhead costs, Farm B is run of the mill with average costs. Farm A produces a higher quality leaf with than Farm B, eg more intense flavour, smaller veins, etc. However, Farm A must increase their farmgate price to cover their additional overheads. Demand can also factor into the cost, as several buyers jockey to get more stock from Farm A than their competitors by offering a higher price.

Yes, flavour is subjective, but if all tobacco was the same then there wouldn't be as much variety between cigars or brands.

[khomeinist]

There is no evidence that flavor necessarily costs money. Blind tests across many luxury products give evidence to this fact....

The issue to me is marketing and the resulting consumer demand. I have had QDO coronas that taste better than BHK. There is NO way to taste something objectively if you have preconceived notions about what you are sampling. The power of suggestion is omnipresent and drives much of the modern capitalist marketplace.....

[ptrthgr8]

The power of suggestion is omnipresent and drives much of the modern capitalist marketplace.....

I don't think that capitalism has cornered the market on the power of suggestion. There are plenty of other socio-economic systems that use that power. (Some more forcibly than others, of course.)

Just sayin'.

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2.

[ramon_cojones]

Without knowing exactly which tobacco is used for a D5 as opposed to a D4, there could potentially be a difference in cost.

Take two plantations that are side by side. Farm A has superior farming techniques and higher overhead costs, Farm B is run of the mill with average costs. Farm A produces a higher quality leaf with than Farm B, eg more intense flavour, smaller veins, etc. However, Farm A must increase their farmgate price to cover their additional overheads. Demand can also factor into the cost, as several buyers jockey to get more stock from Farm A than their competitors by offering a higher price.

Yes, flavour is subjective, but if all tobacco was the same then there wouldn't be as much variety between cigars or brands.

How about two different tobacco plants grown side by side on plantation A? See my point, just like khomeinist said, flavor doesn't cost money it is the by-product of these processes.

Ah hell nevermind lol.

[khomeinist]

Greg....

I don't that that I implied that Capitalism had that market cornered but my example fit the current topic under discussion. It wasn't a slam on your preferred and cherished ideology......

[Diamondog]

lol keep at it boys, I'm going to go enjoy a BHK well maybe I'm just enjoying the Cohiba "mystique" lol...

[ramon_cojones]

I'm sure if someone rebranded some RAs as cohibas and slipped them in a cohiba fetishizer's humidor they might even think these new cohibas are even better LOL!!

[Wil]

I'm sure if someone rebranded some RAs as cohibas and slipped them in a cohiba fetishizer's humidor they might even think these new cohibas are even better LOL!!

I'm happy to participate in this experiment!

[ramon_cojones]

Sorry Wil not sacrificing my cigars for the sake of science ahahahaa.

[khomeinist]

lol keep at it boys, I'm going to go enjoy a BHK well maybe I'm just enjoying the Cohiba "mystique" lol...

You can enjoy the cigar and the mystique simultaneously.....

The mind is capable of such deceptive multi-tasking

[Wil]

Sorry Wil not sacrificing my cigars for the sake of science ahahahaa.

LOL

[ramon_cojones]

[LGC]

If Cohibas were worth the extra coin (for my own personal tastes), I would own more than a handful of boxes... out of the boxes I have bought over the last 12 years. If folks think that all Cohibas are vastly superior to other brands, then the marketing is working. I don't pay attention to bands like I used to years ago. I enjoy them for something different, but not as a staple.

Arguing about what it is the best cigar/brand out there is pointless. Everyone has their own personal criteria for selecting cigars.

[Fuzz]

Let's just face the fact... we are all paying money for, what is in essence, a rolled up bit of dried weed. The only difference is, instead of spraying it with Roundup, I'm smoking it!

[mk05]

It is as Shlomo says, everytime we try to have a conversation about preference of taste, we seem to beat the drum for how smart we are for smoking regular release, and talk about the value proposition of a cigar.

Look, it's very simple. You either taste the cigar, or you don't. Some even elect to inhale, others don't even retrohale, however, taste is not subjective to me. Preference for taste is subjective, however, in my opinion. Say someone prefers Cohiba over a Partagas, there's nothing wrong with that. Or maybe you like QdO over Montecristo. What's the big deal? So some people like how a certain Limited's program cigar tastes versus a regular release, frankly because they do use different tobacco, they do get better (or even more volume of) seco, and in BHK's and certain Limited's, even Medio Tiempo, which drastically changes how a cigar finishes.

However, if you are going to sit there and tell me that a Vegueros is better because you can't differentiate between a cigar containing MT and a Vegueros, I would tell you that this will be the extent of our conversation. In fact, I actually encourage the ones who hold contempt for Limiteds to go out and do a blind test. See if you can't pick up the nuances or what more seco or MT does to a cigar. If you don't find the differences, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that everyone else must be stupid. It means you just need to keep trying.

Finally, let's remember that this is a hobby. I started smoking cigars because of my family, and because I like smoking cigars, knowing that every cigar is an experience. So sometimes I want to light up a Limited. And maybe it's not that great. Big deal, I wanted the experience, nevertheless of the price as a factor. I never signed up for this with an asterisk saying that my enjoyment will waver on how much value I can entertain from an experience, like some double coupon night at a supermarket. Seriously, why do you stay at a nice hotel instead of a Motel 6? You're still getting up in the morning either way. Why do you like to drive nice cars? You get to point B either way. It's because you can. It's like some cultural sickness is spreading across the US like a plague. Back in Asia, everyone loved the Rolls and Ferraris. They celebrated the success of the man, snapped pictures, stopped the guy for a high five and a picture or a video of him peeling off. Here, I see kids and adults alike, hissing as a nice car rolls by, and I see the very real hatred and contempt on their faces.

So if it is in fact not because of the reasons above, but instead because you just can't get more of these boxes, I am sorry you feel that way.

This post is written with great consideration and I mean no harm to any particular person, the conversation just befuddles me.

[Duxnutz]

It is as Shlomo says, everytime we try to have a conversation about preference of taste, we seem to beat the drum for how smart we are for smoking regular release, and talk about the value proposition of a cigar.

Look, it's very simple. You either taste the cigar, or you don't. Some even elect to inhale, others don't even retrohale, however, taste is not subjective to me. Preference for taste is subjective, however, in my opinion. Say someone prefers Cohiba over a Partagas, there's nothing wrong with that. Or maybe you like QdO over Montecristo. What's the big deal? So some people like how a certain Limited's program cigar tastes versus a regular release, frankly because they do use different tobacco, they do get better (or even more volume of) seco, and in BHK's and certain Limited's, even Medio Tiempo, which drastically changes how a cigar finishes.

However, if you are going to sit there and tell me that a Vegueros is better because you can't differentiate between a cigar containing MT and a Vegueros, I would tell you that this will be the extent of our conversation. In fact, I actually encourage the ones who hold contempt for Limiteds to go out and do a blind test. See if you can't pick up the nuances or what more seco or MT does to a cigar. If you don't find the differences, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that everyone else must be stupid. It means you just need to keep trying.

Finally, let's remember that this is a hobby. I started smoking cigars because of my family, and because I like smoking cigars, knowing that every cigar is an experience. So sometimes I want to light up a Limited. And maybe it's not that great. Big deal, I wanted the experience, nevertheless of the price as a factor. I never signed up for this with an asterisk saying that my enjoyment will waver on how much value I can entertain from an experience, like some double coupon night at a supermarket. Seriously, why do you stay at a nice hotel instead of a Motel 6? You're still getting up in the morning either way. Why do you like to drive nice cars? You get to point B either way. It's because you can. It's like some cultural sickness is spreading across the US like a plague. Back in Asia, everyone loved the Rolls and Ferraris. They celebrated the success of the man, snapped pictures, stopped the guy for a high five and a picture or a video of him peeling off. Here, I see kids and adults alike, hissing as a nice car rolls by, and I see the very real hatred and contempt on their faces.

So if it is in fact not because of the reasons above, but instead because you just can't get more of these boxes, I am sorry you feel that way.

This post is written with great consideration and I mean no harm to any particular person, the conversation just befuddles me.

Probably because they associate that nice car with the upper elite who could be blamed for starting one of the worst recessions the country has ever seen? It's been a tough couple of years if your not in the top% of the population.

[markmurase]

I have smoked all of them except the PE and have found lousy consistency throughout. The BHKs were AMAZING when they came out and have gone WAY downhill since. The 54 was my favorite at first, but now I would say the 52 as it seems to be more consistent. The few 56s I have had have all been so-so, not bad, but pretty disappointing considering price. I have smoked half a box of 1966 and 4 of them plain sucked. The other one was one of the great cigar experiences I have had this year.

All in all, the best single cigar I have smoked of the lot was the 1966, but overall the most consistent to me has been the 52.

About 2 dozen regular production CCs are heads and shoulders above all of these Cohibas even when ignoring price. When you take price into account, these Cohibas are bottom of the pack along with many crappy Partagas and RyJ stuff out there...

Genios and Secretos on the other hand...yuuummmm! Guilty, expensive pleasure! Keep those Magicos away from me though....blech....

Shlomo, I have to agree with you on the Genios. I love 'em. I've also enjoyed the couple of Behike 52's that I've smoked.

[CanuckSARTech]

...This forum, more so than many others, seems to have a very strong anti-bling and anti-hype cigar attitude with some obvious exception. I believe I am somewhere in the middle where I dislike the rising cost of bling cigars and the wasting of limited resources in the creation of these cigars at the expense of some more affordable favorites, however I also acknowledge that some of the big money cigars really do live up to the hype....

+ 1000000000000 to this. Very well put.

[jedipastor]

Realistically, price IS one of the primary factors for most of us. Proof: If I were rich, I'd have an entire bin FULL of Behike 54s, instead of my 1-box. If those cost 1/2 of what they do, I'd have probably 10 boxes resting.

But there are some cigar that are so good that I'd smoke them no matter how much money I had, like the RASS, Mag 46, Party 898 and Short, Boli PC, etc. To me, THOSE are the truly spectacular cigars, one's that--though affordable--I'd smoke even if I were rich.

Overall, I'm "anti-bling" as well. But in the case of the Behike 54s, Siglo VI, Padron Family Reserve, Casa Fuente, Don Carlos Anniversario, and Tatuaje La Verite 2009, it's worth the price of admission for me as "celebration cigars."

I would really like to try the 1966.

[Colt45]

"If I were rich, I'd have an entire bin FULL of Behike 54s, instead of my 1-box. If those cost 1/2 of what they do, I'd have probably 10 boxes resting."

That kind of hits the nail on the head - taking price out of the equation (as we were asked to do), you think the 54s good enough to acquire more. So in essence, you

believe them to be good cigars. Affordability, value, etc - at least for the purpose of this exercise - are a separate topic.

[beamer]

But there are some cigar that are so good that I'd smoke them no matter how much money I had, like the RASS, Mag 46, Party 898 and Short, Boli PC, etc.

We have very similar tastes in cigars.

[mbrody]

"If I were rich, I'd have an entire bin FULL of Behike 54s, instead of my 1-box. If those cost 1/2 of what they do, I'd have probably 10 boxes resting."

So simply stated, I would buy BHK52. Pass on the rest.