Good cigars that DON'T improve much with age?

[dvickery]

jedipastor

simple answer...none.

i believe...there is not a single cuban cigar(guantanameras included) that wont benefit from (at least)3 years of age.

"improve" is a word i hesitate to use.

understand this tho...age changes cigars...if this change is what you are looking for then good if not then by all means smoke em young.

derrek

[winelover]

Any views on the HoyoPR? I've been through a 25 box and a 5x3 and to me they are great ROTT and green (a great smack around the chops and full of intense flavour). My box then started to lose flavour as time went on. It could have just been a sick period though. I should've kept some examples to see if they age well. Piggy you know about these ones don't you?

[Tarks]

To try to answer the OP question, it is my opinion that ALL cigars improve with age. But to what extent is an impossible question to answer. This is the beauty of this hobby. Guessing what boxes will improve with age and knowing when a cigar has peaked only comes with experience. And even then, the answers differ from person to person as not one person has the exact same palate.

I have been smoking and ageing Cuban cigars for 10 plus years and there is no way that I have the experience to answer this question. I can tell you what is smoking good for me right now. The 03 BBF's, 98 Dip 4's, 03 Des Dieux, 03 Boli Gigantes, 03 Boli Inmensas as some examples but I have no idea if current production BBF's, Dip 4, Des Dieux, Boli Gigantes, Inmensas will be as good in 8- 10 years from now. Only time will tell and even then my opinion might change from box to box. We need to remember that blends change and more importantly the tobacco seed has seen many changes in the history of Cuban cigars.

[mk05]

cello...on!

[PigFish]

Any views on the HoyoPR? I've been through a 25 box and a 5x3 and to me they are great ROTT and green (a great smack around the chops and full of intense flavour). My box then started to lose flavour as time went on. It could have just been a sick period though. I should've kept some examples to see if they age well. Piggy you know about these ones don't you?

I happen to like the Petit Robusto. This is an unusual case for me. I don't really care for new (newly designed) cigars nor robustos, BUT I like a quality smoking experience witch these little cigars often bring to me.

I think I am a particularly bad person to ask this question to because I have no insight into what a cigar that has never been smoked once will taste like at some time in the future. I see absurdity in guessing!!! I have to laugh when I read the comments, "These are gonna' age well!" The funny thing is this... I have said, and thought this to personally many, many times! Of course I also look in the mirror and think I am good looking!!! -LOL I am therefore not exempt from delusional thinking.

The difference with me, and some others, like Tarks from above is that when we feel compelled to answer honestly we tell the truth about what we think. I cannot prognosticate future cigar performance. I don't think anyone can.

Here are some ideas. I abandoned the idea of aging cigars long ago. I store cigars for future use and I also hoard cigars! They age as a matter of coincidence to storing/hoarding them. This is what I suggest others do.

Deliberately aging a cigar implies its storage for specific term to achieve a specific result. I think of this idea as a cluster f*** and joke perpetrated by those gurus who wish for people to buy their overpriced aged cigars so that you can buy (from them) a shortcut ticket to their exclusive club.

BUT, lets think on this a little more shall we? Lets take the Cohiba Robusto. I have heard of aged boxes of these cigars selling for 5 to 10 times their worth. So if you are going to 'age' cigars and you like the CoRo why don't you pick a cigar that you can option to sell to a sucker with more dollars the sense in the future. The PSD4 is a similar cigar, one that has historically demanded a good return on investment. Some people who have not smoked one aged, will pay up to buy your aged box if you hype it enough. That is of course if you don't smoke them yourself... which is what I would do!

Then of course there are the discontinued cigars. Can I get 2 to 3 times my money for a cab of Punch SS #1, or #2's today? You bet. So the discontinued cigar, or at least some of them will fetch far more than they are worth because of more than just the age factor. You see to the collector age and availability due to age equals value. If value is not the right contextual word then lets say, "selling price."

Lets come full circle. Do you like the Hoyo Petit Robusto? If yes, and especially if you can bag a few nice boxes of these for a good price, I say buy away. The point is that you will have a stock, and aging stock if you prefer, of the cigars that you like to smoke now and presumably will like to smoke in the future.

I still have a box or two of original release Hoyo PR. I ran across some gray market PR's in cardboard 15 boxs for really cheap and I bought a bunch of those back in '06. I have smoked through a lot of them and keep a bunch in an old Punch SS #2 cab, "to age!" -LOL The important difference is that I did not buy them to age! I bought them to own, to smoke when I feel the desire to smoke them. Since you gave me the idea, I will pull a couple out today to smoke!!!

My process went like this. If I walk myself back to '06 I remember being impressed with what I was tasting in '06 cigars. So I started to open my eyes for buying opportunities, even for cigars that I have given up on. When I saw these on a two box special (and I mean really cheap) I bagged a bunch of them. The factors were right for me. I saw a cigar that I liked, produced in what I perceived was a good production year and I got a good price. Jackpot! Now the cigars could have been crap. You always take this gamble when buying cigars. I got lucky and they are not.

Now the cigars are what 6 yo? I can't tell a damn bit-o difference but it impresses my friends... -LOL I am not impressed by the fact that they now, "Have some age on them!" I know that they are kept right, not to wet and smoke, and taste good!!!

I hope that helps you mate.

Cheers! -Piggy

[canadianbeaver]

If you buy a box of cigars and the box happens to say 2007 on the bottom, is that an aged cigar or are you just a lucky bugger?

[PigFish]

If you buy a box of cigars and the box happens to say 2007 on the bottom, is that an aged cigar or are you just a lucky bugger?

Everyone has what he/she defines as a cutoff for aged, some age, or a vintage cigar. Yeah... I guess I have thoughts on the matter but it is completely unimportant to me.

What I see in '07 is that I thought it was a good box year for cigars. I have a lot of '07's due to that fact. If you bought the cigars in '07 or '08 and have 'aged' them yourself you also know that the cigar that may have been stored at 70 RH (too wet for my taste) is now likely the 60 RH (in my case) that I like now and it is consistent through to its core. The water in a cigar means more to me than the age.

That is what '07 means to me today, in a nutshell. -R

[OZCUBAN]

I have a lot of cigars that are aging. But are they aging or just being stored? It is a matter of perspective. I will open new boxes or not based on whim, the age of the cigar, or any of a number of reasons, none I relate to mental stability!!! If you prefer to "age" cigars rather than "store" or "hoard" cigars, the choice is yours.

Exactly my sentiment ,I have been disappointed by aged and young alike

carpe diem

What ever day that might be

OZ

[khomeinist]

Haha. Very curious theory. If you enjoy fresh ERDM and QDO, more power to you. I have enough experience to prefer the opposite. Tobacco ages. There are aerobic and anaerobic processes that occur that will change the flavors of a given tobacco. Are these changes always predictable and 'for the best?' No. But they do occur. And I say this as someone without a cigar to sell.

[PigFish]

Haha. Very curious theory. If you enjoy fresh ERDM and QDO, more power to you. I have enough experience to prefer the opposite. Tobacco ages. There are aerobic and anaerobic processes that occur that will change the flavors of a given tobacco. Are these changes always predictable and 'for the best?' No. But they do occur. And I say this as someone without a cigar to sell.

YES!

I am not denying an aging effect. I am denying prognosticating a specific aging effect and evidencing the fact that a single cigar can be smoked but once. I am also highlighting an "aging effect" as a justification to pay more than a cigars worth in real world tasting performance which is widely done. JMHO

Like the limited issue cigar. The aged cigar has value to some groups. Whether the reputation is good or bad, the taste good or bad, the value good or bad is based solely on the opinions of individuals. Some opinions are driven by vested players for their own benefit. Again, JMHO.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Montaigut]

I do not age my cigars. If I like a cigar today I will buy one or more boxes and smoke them in short order.

Honestly if by some miracle I could do a concurrent smoke of a particular cigar from the same box, one sample being "young" and the other sample being aged, I am quite convinced I could not differentiate between the two. Let alone working from mnemonic flavors trying to compare two cigars even one or two years apart... I already find there is enough variation between cigars from the same box to confuse me to distraction. Does that make me a cigar philistine? Maybe... But it certainly makes me someone who enjoys his smokes!

Taste now is what guides my purchases. Heck the aging process is at work on me. I don't want my epitaph to read:

HERE LIES A MAN THAT LEFT ONE HELL OF A COLLECTION OF AGED CIGARS!

[Dbone]

Ok lets get crazy.

Well and who's not to say your "taste" will change in 10 years time LOL Was there really a chance in the cigar or just within your own palate.

Personally, I'm starting to move from the milk chocolate to dark chocolate camp. I hated fruitcake as a kid, for this holiday I dug in and loved it LOL

[Evangundy]

I do not age my cigars. If I like a cigar today I will buy one or more boxes and smoke them in short order.

Honestly if by some miracle I could do a concurrent smoke of a particular cigar from the same box, one sample being "young" and the other sample being aged, I am quite convinced I could not differentiate between the two. Let alone working from mnemonic flavors trying to compare two cigars even one or two years apart... I already find there is enough variation between cigars from the same box to confuse me to distraction. Does that make me a cigar philistine? Maybe... But it certainly makes me someone who enjoys his smokes!

Taste now is what guides my purchases. Heck the aging process is at work on me. I don't want my epitaph to read:

HERE LIES A MAN THAT LEFT ONE HELL OF A COLLECTION OF AGED CIGARS!

Amen! I like the idea of aging cigars to see how good they are with some years, but I go by what taste good to me now. What if my palate changes and I don't like the cigars I have aged for 3-5 years... Sad day. I say age if you want, but enjoy what you enjoy now!

[Lotusguy]

Buy more than you smoke and the aging happens automatically