When a hobbyceases to be fun.

[Trevor2118]

I started my website as a hobby and it seemed a good idea at the time.

I had just retired and had an interest in cigars and computers and had time on my hands.

I quickly found that most of the technical information about Cuban cigars on the internet was incorrect and out of date (or both). No one knew which cigars were still machine-made or hand finished; the Habanos packaging abbreviations being guessed at; etc., etc., etc., and this information was being quoted (and misquoted) on forums as gospel.

So information got put together and a very basic concept grew to what it is today. Visitors from 172 countries and over 170,000 users (this figure is from user's IP addresses...it is not a hit counter).

My main objective with the website is accuracy and completeness. However it is also intended as a hobby....and a hobby should bring enjoyment and satisfaction.

However I find myself being somewhat discouraged by current trends.

Habanos SA....well what can I say about them.

Habanos makes many secret societies look like a bunch of blabber-mouths. They have an out-of-date website and they don't answer emails.

They consistently trumpet new releases in February that only start to dribble into the markets in November, and many will not be released until next year. In fact, some celebrated 2010 releases have not hit the shelves.

The regional edition release program is even worse. Habanos decided that the regional distributers would be responsible for marketing; however the majority of regional distributers do not have the simplest of websites. I can count on one hand the numbers of distributers (or their major retailers) who take advantage of my website's free advertising potential.

With the 2007 British Imperial Tobacco buyout of Altadis (who own 50% of Habanos SA) and the 2009/10 corruption purge in Habanos SA, it was hoped that some modern management techniques might be injected into the organisation. This was not to be.

The current philosophy appears to be that Announcements are more important than Production.

When is the last time you ever saw positive views being expressed about Habanos in forums. All I can recall is them being torn to bits over the latest round of deletions. Perhaps if Habanos had explained the reasons behind the deletions...it may have placated people! Who knows?

I have never asked for much in relation to my website. It is kept as a free and totally advertising free because it is my hobby, and I don't want to profit from it. It's not that I'm some form of eccentric millionaire....just the opposite, but I am happy to fund it myself. All I have asked for is information and assistance in obtaining the more elusive cigars for my photographic and reference collection. Currently this assistance comes from Rob and three overseas dealers, together with three overseas distributors, and a handful of private individuals. Fairly sad for over170,000 website users!

With the worldwide anti-clampdown on cigars and cigar smokers, and the increasing restrictions on internet trade, I see the problems in obtaining cigar samples from overseas becoming more difficult.

All this boils down to the fact that I am becoming more and more disenchanted with my website as a hobby. As each year passes, I am feeling less and less inclined to continue with the effort involved. My nature is that if I can't do it properly, I will not do it at all.

So I suppose you are probably asking what is the purpose of this rant? Well....no real purpose. I've been stewing about this for some time and just needed to vent my feelings. I'll see how things go over the next few months.

Trevor.

[riazp]

Trevor,

I understand the nature of your post. I cant even start to count the amount of times I have used your incredible website for personal use, and have reffered it to new and old smokers alike! Now that this hobbie looks like has become more of a chore, it is really up to you to see if you want to continue with it. All i know that your site is like a cuban cigar bible to all of us here, and to not have it is something thats hard for me to envision! Thank you for your dedicated work to your website, it really is a labour of love, and well i guess when your not in love anymore, you move on I suppose.

Riaz

[goalie204]

I can only speak for myself, but i really appreciate all that you do to keep your site up to date with great (and accurate) information.

It would be a shame to see it go, because there is no other site in the world anywhere close to it.

Not that you're asking, proposing, or even thinking of this, but just to help you understand how valuable your site is, i'd tell you that if there was a monthly fee to use it, i'd pay it unquestionably. (Again, just to reiterate how valuable the site is)

[Rushman]

Trevor,

I understand the nature of your post. I cant even start to count the amount of times I have used your incredible website for personal use, and have reffered it to new and old smokers alike! Now that this hobbie looks like has become more of a chore, it is really up to you to see if you want to continue with it. All i know that your site is like a cuban cigar bible to all of us here, and to not have it is something thats hard for me to envision! Thank you for your dedicated work to your website, it really is a labour of love, and well i guess when your not in love anymore, you move on I suppose.

Riaz

X2. Understand completely and wish you much joy in your pursuits.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=20.631631,-87.070582

[KB24]

Looks like it's time to start profiting from all your hard work that you have put in over the last several years. I monthly fee to gain access or maybe look to sell to someone who wants to keep it up to date and charge a fee themselves. I have a feeling several members here would have no issues paying 10-20 a month for use.

[FrankBlack87]

Trevor, wow yes i have to agree 100% with your post, its good to see someone finally put what weve all been thinking into words. I seriously dont know what HSA is doing anymore. but your site is the ultimate CC reference book.. I have scoured it many times for info.. I dont know where I would be without it! If you do ever decide to charge a monthly use fee.. I would not hesitate to pay. Keep up the good work brother! You are the King ------Matt

[mazolaman]

Well,you should at least know that your site is appreciated.

I've used it many times to identify cigars I have bought on the road.

Also,as you state,to see how the ranges have depleted.

While I havent been smoking that long,I don't like the "big fat EL" route habanos are taking.

I guess if it's no fun anymore,pack it in,while knowing you did a good job.

[El Presidente]

Trev

The workload for CCW I know as being never ending and at times intense.

Ideally, you would have full support of HSA and every major Habanos dealer and distributor in the world. that has not come to pass and is unlikely to do so.

Habanos is going through a hard time. They have had plenty of brickbats from ourselves and could use a little bit more support from us in terms of less "Stick" and more "carrot". That is not to say they have not deserved what they have received.

There are some very good and passionate people in Habanos. There are also some nongs. If we continue to bag the crap out of them then the good people will continue to leave and we will be left with nothing but nongs. I accept We need to take a more measured approach on FOH for the advancement

of Cuban cigar culture worldwide. Continue to call it as we see it while at the same time making official marketing submissions and recommendations.

But back to CCW.

You need a hand mate and while you may not think you need to....you need to monetize CCW if for no other reason than to cover your costs and any future expansion.

• I would consider the option for users to donate on the site through Paypal.
• Using some of the proceeds, develop an Iphone app and sell it.
• You need another kindred spirit to assist you in updating the site.
• You may or may not decide to take on some advertising to pay for assistance and updating. The advertising can also be contra for information and product from major dealers in the world.
• You need to develop a one on one with HSA marketing to provide you the information and product you need. You would think that would be easy....it's not.
• Paid list of Cigar Friendly places worldwide.

I am more than happy to assist in whatever way I can. If you need a couple of days break, pop up to the deck and we can mull the different options over some cigars and wine. Put a plan together for 2012 and give it another 12 months. If the support doesn't come to pass in that period then you have every right to shut the door. It would be a bloody shame but you are not a charity.

Cheers

Rob

[riazp]

Rob's suggestions of Donations via paypal and an iphone app are very exellent. I'm sure all the iphone users here are just waiting for you to release an app!

[Trevor2118]

I would just like to clarify.........that money is not a problem....I don't mind funding the website, and I have sufficient funds to do that.

It is about the information and obtaining the necessary cigars.

A paid website would only put more pressure on me to keep it accurate.

Also, my agreement with MRN (for the use of his photos) is that the site be non-commercial.

[Colt45]

Are you shilling?!?

While it would be a great loss for all of us, why give yourself angina if you're enjoying it less and less? Have you considered looking into

selling your site outright? Buy some Grange, kick back and relax, take up another hobby......

I think I can safely speak for many of us - we're with you no matter what you decide in the end.

[beamer]

Trevor, just to reiterate, your site is a fantastic resource.

But I can absolutely understand that you need to take a step back from time to time and make sure you're actually enjoying what you're doing.

Best of luck.

[winelover]

Trevor thank you so much for your website it is truly appreciated around the world. I am not sure about putting in place a pay-wall as this would radically reduce the readership but either a wilipedia model with donations or opening up your site to advertising must be the best ways of sustaining it whilst keeping control.

On the Habanos SA criticisms, I second, third, fourth all the comments made above. One radical thought I had was what if all forum members bought one share in Imperial Tobacco and then as shareholders wouldn't we be entitled or at least have better standing to table questions to the board as to WTH they are doing with Habanos S.A.? If all forum members were individual holders petitioning Imperial wouldn't we have a chance of getting listened to, even if it is just because we are an irritation?

[Ginseng]

I would just like to clarify.........that money is not a problem....I don't mind funding the website, and I have sufficient funds to do that.

It is about the information and obtaining the necessary cigars.

A paid website would only put more pressure on me to keep it accurate.

Also, my agreement with MRN (for the use of his photos) is that the site be non-commercial.

Trevor,

I understand how you feel, to a degree. As for the rest, I can only imagine how much effort this takes. When the "love" leaves "labor of..." then it can feel like a struggle or worse.

As for the obtaining the cigar specimens, perhaps you can designate an enthusiast or cigar group in each region to collect the images for you? I could help you develop a photography style guide and then the Euro guys, the Middle East guys, the Far East guys could do the legwork delivering the photo assets for the forum.

As for information, how do we do better without having a sponsor and champion from within HSA?

I would welcome an opportunity to help in any way I can. Perhaps for right now, a sympathetic ear will serve.

Regards,

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

I would just like to clarify.........that money is not a problem....I don't mind funding the website, and I have sufficient funds to do that.

It is about the information and obtaining the necessary cigars.

A paid website would only put more pressure on me to keep it accurate.

Also, my agreement with MRN (for the use of his photos) is that the site be non-commercial.

I can't speak for MRN but If donations were used only for site expansion/maintenance/product acquisition when required I would not envisage a problem.

Informaton and Obtaining Cigars.

You wouldn't think information would be that difficult. It is however piecemeal at best. It really needs to come from a HSA insider on a constant and approved basis. I will make some inquiries on your behalf this week to see if we can fix this once and for all.

Cigars will need to come from distributors/major retailers and lovers of the leaf world wide.

I have an idea I will float with you on e-mail/PM which may get the job done.

[AlohaStyle]

Hi Trevor,

You don't know me at all, but I wish you well in whatever you decide to do with your website and that you don't owe anyone to keep it going. With that said, I want to thank you, thank you, and thank you some more as I have only been into cuban cigars seriously for a couple years and to this day, I am on your website almost daily. Your website is such a great source of information and you truly help a lot of cigar smokers around the world... especially new people to this wonderful world of cigars.

I agree that it is hard to do something unless your heart is truly into it. Maybe just knowing how many people you help and how appreciated your work is to cigar smokers, just maybe that can help you get the "fire" back into doing your website. If not, I thank you for all the time you have put into it and wish you the best.

Ryan

[AlohaStyle]

Reading this thread again I realize my post was a little too chearleader'ish and rah-rah-rah'ish!?! That doesn't help you get the information you need from Habanos. Again, so many thanks to you and I wish you the best.

[mkz]

Many great things have already been said in above posts.

To make it short:

Your site is like the Bible to me Trevor! I sincerely hope it will be around for years to come.

[Ken Gargett]

hi trev

what you have done has been fantastic but understand what you are saying. still, if it was easy, where would be the fun?

more seriously, i suspect if you stopped today, it would still be the leading authority in about five years.

hopefully, someone at habanos can be made to see how urgent and important it is that they support you.

good luck.

[laficion]

I guess, after all that, all I want to say is ...Thank You.

Trevor,

I would also like to thank you l'ami,

Thank you for a great and unique site.

Thank you for your time and effords.

Thank you for your PASSION, without which we would all be orphans.

Thank you for your patience and tolerance towards all the misinformation that one can find

concerning the world of Cuban cigars.

Thank you for giving the new generation a serious reference in which they can rely on.

Thank you for giving yourself to us by just being you.

Please Trevor ,just take some time to think about it all. Above all , take time to

talk it over with true friends like Rob & Co. Put everything back into perspective

and I'm sure that you'll see it all under a new light.

Whatever you may or may not decide will be your choice and we will all of course respect

that choice.Just remember that alone we are nothing, together we are everything.

You are not alone my friend.

Trés amicalement,

Guy

[frenchkiwi]

Hey Trevor - I am one of the thousands who appreciate your website.

I fully understand the discouragement induced by Habanos dysfunctions.

I think there are many here who can help once you've identified exactly what kinds of support would make it enjoyable for you again.

E.g. we should set up a Habanos Catalogue - additions/deletions section on this forum so that releases like the ad-hoc unannounced regional ones, rumours and other info can be fed through to you by all members of the site. Rather than you having to pick up on the chat and ask individuals.

I thought Rob's suggestions:

• You need another kindred spirit to assist you in updating the site.
  
• You need to develop a one on one with HSA marketing to provide you the information and product you need. You would think that would be easy....it's not.
  

... were pertinent.

If the site was updated design wise, perhaps HSA marketing would be more inclined to develop this relationship with you via Rob or someone in the know. Surely there are a few website designers among our members willing to have a shot? (before moving on to the phone app etc ;-)

Commercialising the site might actually hinder rather than help (?) this relationship-building process seeing how Habanos are so planning/controlling of their commercial interests...

Hopefully we can help you to make it enjoyable again... just let us know what you want.

Xavier

p.s. smoked your cohiba esplendido after the WC final... very enjoyable... much appreciated

[jmasterj]

Hey Trevor...Its hard being Number 1 buddy! When you're more informative than the organization that makes up the information it can get tough. Here's some food for thought, let them catch up to you...give it a break, leave it status quo and then come back to it when there's tons of new information available. Then you'll feel like you're on the hunt again chap.

Cheers to your many contributions to the Cuban cigar culture...believe it or not, you're exceptional than you realize Sir.

Thank you!

[mbrody]

A Hobby is not supposed to feel like work, and when it does, you either need to give it up or re-invigorate it. I can't thnk of it in a simpler form. Should you continue to pursue it, many people will continue to use the site and benefit from your hobby/work. Should you abandon it, many people will contineu to use the site and benefit from your hobby/work. My point is, you have to do what is right for you. You must be happy with your choice.

Whatever you choose to do, thank you for the site and your hard work. I have enjoyed it, but truth be told, I enjoy playing poker with you more...

[Lastroll]

Trevor,

Your site is THE most informative CC site on the web. Thank you for setting it up and keeping it going. I would still be smoking Monte 2's exclusively if it weren't for your efforts. I've learned so much CC info, thanks to you, that I now have no fear buying a variety of cigars since I have a great reference.

If you throw in the towel, I understand but just know that I, and many thousands, truly appreciate your hard work.

Thanks again.

[Lotusguy]

It would be a tremendous loss for the community, if you decided to stop maintaining the website. I can understand why you feel the way you feel, though.

Since it's not an issue of money (I still think a "donate" button would be a good idea), maybe you can turn it from a one-man show into more of a community project to alleviate your burden. Kind of like a "cigar-Wiki". I would gladly help with anything in German, for example.

Just a thought.