BobKincaid Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 I'm new to the CC game, but it's something of a holy grail I've sought for years. After a first time visit to the Caribbean on a cruise this past winter (and a truly charming quest for CCs on the only non-US possession on which we set foot), I picked up a handful of CCs (Monte 4s, Boli RCs and Cohiba S IVs). I smoked 'em and whether for psychological, qualty or aesthetic reasons, it was all I'd hoped for. Returning home, the bloom was definitely off the rose for the array of Doms, Nics and Hondus in my humidor. So I got busy casting about and have added some Fonsecas (Cosacos), Partagas SP2, HdM EpiEsp, JLP Cazadores and more Boli RCs to the humi. But here's the question: to smoke or not to smoke. I wanted these babies badly and have only begun to learn the value of aging cigars that are so apparently "young." With the "domestics," such considerations never entered into the equation. Yet I want to smoke 'em. But I also want to experience 'em at their best. What's a poor-but-honest hillbilly to do? Any suggestions? Order up some relatively inexpensive sticks while waiting on the good stuff? Ration the good ones to myself? It really is quite a consideration. I perceive head-and-shoulders quality above the domestics already, but with all I've read here (and seen on the FOH vids), these things will only get better. I think I'm getting paranoid . . . maybe time to put down the tequila bottle.
Nocoins Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 I know how you feel. I was the same way when I first got excited about Cubans. I had a humidor full of cigars I was afraid to smoke, because then they'd be gone. My advice is simply to buy what you like and can afford and smoke them. They're to be smoked and enjoyed. If you like the way your cigars taste now, don't worry too much about aging. If you buy more than you smoke, you'll have some cigars that you can allow to age and see if you think it makes a difference.
BobKincaid Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 I know how you feel. I was the same way when I first got excited about Cubans. I had a humidor full of cigars I was afraid to smoke, because then they'd be gone. My advice is simply to buy what you like and can afford and smoke them. They're to be smoked and enjoyed. If you like the way your cigars taste now, don't worry too much about aging. If you buy more than you smoke, you'll have some cigars that you can allow to age and see if you think it makes a difference. Thanks for the input! Sometimes picking a stick out of the humi turns into some sort of internal philosophic debate, at which point I realize it's getting a little too weird. The other side of it is that a couple of cigars have left me wholly non-plussed in relation to the reviews. HdM EpiEsp comes to mind. They came to me in a cab of 10 from JUN 09 and I'm darned if I can figure out where the hoopla might be. Makes me wonder if I leave 'em lay for a year or two whether they might turn into something dramatic. On the other hand, the Boli RCs from Sep10 have been amazing from the get-go. Maybe it's just a matter of me having a predilection for the full-bodied marcas.
investandprosper Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Cubans can be had for the same (or better) price you pay for non Cubans. For example, stellar cigars at a smaller price point are the Por Larranaga Petit Corona, Bolivar Corona Junior, Partagas Serie D. No. 4, Partagas Shorts, Monte No. 5, Diplomatico No. 5, etc. etc. Granted, some are smaller vitolas, but they will still give you the flavor profile of the marca so that you can get your Cuban fix while waiting for your more expensive cigars to age. Partagas SP2s, which can cost $10/stick, have an excellent flavor profile which also comes through in a good box of Partagas Shorts, which you can get for $5/stick. Same with the Bolivar Corona Juniors in regard to the Royal Corona. Best, John
investandprosper Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Thanks for the input! Sometimes picking a stick out of the humi turns into some sort of internal philosophic debate, at which point I realize it's getting a little too weird. The other side of it is that a couple of cigars have left me wholly non-plussed in relation to the reviews. HdM EpiEsp comes to mind. They came to me in a cab of 10 from JUN 09 and I'm darned if I can figure out where the hoopla might be. Makes me wonder if I leave 'em lay for a year or two whether they might turn into something dramatic. On the other hand, the Boli RCs from Sep10 have been amazing from the get-go. Maybe it's just a matter of me having a predilection for the full-bodied marcas. Sounds like the HdMs may be going through a dull or sick period. With Cubans you'll find that they go through phases. For months at a time, they may be near tasteless, and it's absolutely pointless to smoke them during this period. You can usually tell by the aroma of a cigar ... if you can barely smell anything, chances are the flavors will not be there. However, if you smell the lovely barnyard, honey, rich tobacco, there's a good chance the cigar will be spot on. Storing the cigars at the proper humidity will go a long way as well (I find that 65% humidity and 69 degrees F bring out the best in my Cubans). Store them too dry, and they lose their oils and flavor. Too wet, and they will taste bitter and will have a hard time staying lit. There's a fine balance, as little as 10% RH between too wet and too dry in my experience. Best, John
BobKincaid Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 Cubans can be had for the same (or better) price you pay for non Cubans. For example, stellar cigars at a smaller price point are the Por Larranaga Petit Corona, Bolivar Corona Junior, Partagas Serie D. No. 4, Partagas Shorts, Monte No. 5, Diplomatico No. 5, etc. etc. Granted, some are smaller vitolas, but they will still give you the flavor profile of the marca so that you can get your Cuban fix while waiting for your more expensive cigars to age. Partagas SP2s, which can cost $10/stick, have an excellent flavor profile which also comes through in a good box of Partagas Shorts, which you can get for $5/stick. Same with the Bolivar Corona Juniors in regard to the Royal Corona. Best, John Thanks, John! As I said, Monte 4s were what came home from the Caribbean. I was mighty sorry to see the last of those go the way of all ash. I'm not at all averse to smaller vitolas. If anything, I regret the fact that, having my own space about which no one complains, I don't have much in the way of larger vitolas to work with. On the other hand, I'm not obsessed with "fat" cigars. In fact, I prefer something around a 43 to 46 ring, since larger gauges just feel a bit obscene. Among my absolute favorite shapes/lengths is 7.5" x 38 "lancero." I find those to actually command more attention and/or discipline from the smoker than some 60 gauge Nicaraguan pornogar. Smaller gauged cigars, burning hotter as they do, teach a certain patience to the smoker. One might say there's more "Zen" in them. If I save diligently, I might be able to afford a box of Monte Especiales sometime in what I hope will be the second Obama Administration. As it is, that vitola has become a rarity among NCs, and the decent marcas command upwards of $6/stick. I'm going to have to get over my newfound snobbery. I've got a TON of NCs to get through. My Scots ancestry militates against waste, so perhaps I can "train" myself to "earn" a CC after having subjected myself to a couple of NCs.
cigaraholic Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Nocolns is right.........smoke the damm cigars!!!!! They're only cigars. Why would you deny yourself the pleasure of smoking great cigars, because you think they're not ready.........bullshit. They're ready when you are. Great cigars are great cigars, they don't have to be XXX years old. You can get as batshit crazy as you want with this hobby but don't fall into the trap of thinking every-things better with age, it's not. If you get to the point where your buying more than your smoking that's how you'll get some older cigars. If I open a box and the cigars are overpowering then I give them more time, otherwise it's destroy Castro's crop as fast as I can, being the patriot that I am. 99.9 of the cigars Rob and the guys smoke on the video reviews are young cigars, if they're good cigars they seem to enjoy them. Don't forget about getting hit by the bus.
Ghabanos Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Nocolns is right.........smoke the damm cigars!!!!!They're only cigars. Why would you deny yourself the pleasure of smoking great cigars, because you think they're not ready.........bullshit. They're ready when you are. Great cigars are great cigars, they don't have to be XXX years old. You can get as batshit crazy as you want with this hobby but don't fall into the trap of thinking every-things better with age, it's not. If you get to the point where your buying more than your smoking that's how you'll get some older cigars. If I open a box and the cigars are overpowering then I give them more time, otherwise it's destroy Castro's crop as fast as I can, being the patriot that I am. 99.9 of the cigars Rob and the guys smoke on the video reviews are young cigars, if they're good cigars they seem to enjoy them. Don't forget about getting hit by the bus. Nailed it...
investandprosper Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 I don't agree with the "They're ready when you are" statement. Many Cubans go through a sick period. When that happens, don't bother smoking them for a few months unless you can afford to waste them.
bolivr Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 There's some great advice in the posts above. I have found buying 10 of a certain cigar gives me enough to add them into what is a loose rotation and many months go by until the last of the 10. Then its decision time to get another 10 or a 25 and bit by bit your collection grows. I started building a collection about 8 years ago which is at a comfortable level of about 250 sticks. It's a funny notion of a collection though because each and everyone will be smoked eventually. Some not so good purchases along the way, but that's life. Smoke your NCs too - surely they can improve with age And BTW, I still don't get the HdM thing.... Enjoy the voyage of discovery!!
Stalebread Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Some great info in the posts above. What about the 30-day rule? I don't know how soon you smoked the HdM after they arrived but maybe it didn't have time to stabilze in your humidor after shipping? Although there's something to be said for smoking one ROTT, letting your cigars rest after shipping can make a difference for the better. I know what you mean by the internal philosophic debate. It's become less wierd for me over the last four or five years in that since I smoke only one or two cigars a week and I've bought way more than I can smoke, I have quite a few cigars that are aging by default -- like cigaraholic mentioned above. Try lots of singles (say, three of each) and samplers. Some recent production is smoking very well young. The FoH crew can make solid suggestions. And then there's the temptation to purchase aged stock. In any case, enjoy the journey.
laficion Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Hi BobKincaid, First of all, I'm not one that has ever been worried about aging my cigars, I just let them rest a normal time after receiving them and before, I check the date on the back of the box to see how long it's been since they've been boxed. I take into account the date and then add some time that they've been stocked or moved around, + or - , and then maybe add 1 month before I smoke them away, I've come to a point where I can't be bothered anymore with "do I age or not" , If I want to have a really aged box, I'll just buy it aged. Since 1936 , a wonderful cuban brand, Rafael Gonzales , has the best advice ever given, printed on their boxes. and it goes like this, "These cigars have been manufactured from a secret blend of pure Vuelta Abajo tobaccos selected by the Marquez Rafael Gonzalez, Grandee of Spain. For more than 20 years this brand has existed. In order that the Connoisseur may fully appreciate the perfect fragrance they should be smoked either within one month of the date of shipment from Havana or should be carefully matured for about one year." Very Simple and with no complications.
BobKincaid Posted May 8, 2011 Author Posted May 8, 2011 Thanks, guys! There's a good distillation of knowledge here. I have to admit that "smoke the damned cigars" holds the most appeal for me. I just really have no gauge with which to measure how much a given stick will "mature" or change over time. I do like to have one ROTT, especially if it's something I've never before experienced. Having done that, I've managed to leave 'em lay for a couple of weeks to a month. That's the case w/ the HdM EpiEsp. With a month of humi time, they don't seem to be changing much. They're still pretty well unremarkable. If these things are going to improve, I can only assume it will be a matter of many months or years, for which I largely lack patience unless I completely space on the fact that they're there. At this point, I don't have enough of a stash of CCs for that to happen.
CBL Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Smoke while you can! When I started smoking cigars I just smoked whatever I had, whenever I had the time. When I discovered cigars get better with time I started saving cigars like a squirrel saving nuts for winter. But nothing sucks more than having great cigars that you're not smoking! If the cigars are good now, just enjoy them. You can always get more at a later point in time and start aging those when you have a small collection going. The only boxes I don't touch are the ones that are either not good right now or the ones that show a great improvement between the first and second one. If the smokes are steady and delicious than don't worry about putting them to rest and just burn them up! See it this way: if a box of 25 has 12 decent cigars that you enjoyed smoking and find the 13th to be MUCH better than the previous 12, you still have another 12 to age and hope they'll become as good as the previous one. On the other hand, if the box is going downhill after the 13th, you still had 12 cigar you enjoyed before they went "bad" Imagine if you hadn't touched the box, you'd be sitting on 25 bad cigar! Anyway that's the risk of smoking our beloved Cuban Cigars, but sometimes that one cigar that rocks your world from a box of lesser specimens makes all the uncertainties and dilemmas worth it!
joeypots Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 If you really want to build a good stash it's going to cost. The more frequently you smoke the harder it will be. Get a big cooler and buy two for every one you smoke. Seems simple and even trite until you do it. Get another credit card if your better half watches your wallet.
docbp87 Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 What I find myself doing is buying large quantities of the less expensive (usually smaller) stuff, to smoke when I want something and don't want to worry about age and money involved. I buy boxes of "better", more expensive stuff specifically to smoke a few of, and then hide at the bottom of the cooler. It seems odd, but aging the stuff I spend more on seems easier. I can grab a PLPC from a 50ct cab, or similarly a Party Short, without worrying about age or money, because I like both from the late 09, early 2010 stock that I have... and don't have to worry about going through the box too quickly, since I have 50 of them. That said, a 10 ct. box of Siglo VIs will get more age, because I've trained myself to hold off on those, and grab something fresh and cheap instead. Invest in the big boxes of cheaper smokes for your every day go (especially since there are a good number of them that smoke great young), and hide the good stuff!
maverickdrinker Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Lots of great advice on this thread. try different marcas first to see what you like. 5er or 10 packs. Smaller sizes are good as you will get a good sense of the flavour profile. If you buy boxes to start, you can always pull 10 out to put on rotation and you have 15 to age. Flavours change over time. Trade amongst the BOTL. In fact, pm me your addy. I'll send you a sampler. Once you find what you like, stock up. There has been a recent increase in deletions. Thank goodness nothing from cohiba yet. My favorites so far are cohibas, montecristos, ramon allones mostly. The most important thing is remembering that they are just cigars. Smoke what you like and with reckles abandon. The only time I hesitate is when it is a regional that I can no longer get. I usually buy 2 to 3 boxes if I really like them. Welcome to the crazy world of cigar smoking. Enjoy the ride.
maverickdrinker Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 One last thing, buy 1 humidor for your regular rotation sticks and the biggest cooler that you can find.....
Dbone Posted May 9, 2011 Posted May 9, 2011 A lot of great advice here. Let me add one more. If you purchase cigars from our host, you have access to a great long term storage tool. That's their online storage locker. Why age the cigars yourself when you can have someone else do it for you? In a few years you will have a very nice stash of superbly aged cuban cigars.
jnt Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 One last thing, buy 1 humidor for your regular rotation sticks and the biggest cooler that you can find..... +1
BobKincaid Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 One last thing, buy . . . the biggest cooler that you can find..... That process has already begun. The NCs got run off to a Tupperware container with a humidification device. The humi now holds nothing but CCs. I look forward to the day when I can justify a big cooler!
BobKincaid Posted May 10, 2011 Author Posted May 10, 2011 A lot of great advice here. Let me add one more.If you purchase cigars from our host, you have access to a great long term storage tool. That's their online storage locker. Why age the cigars yourself when you can have someone else do it for you? In a few years you will have a very nice stash of superbly aged cuban cigars. Indeed! I've been making my way all over the site and just read about that. What a brilliant idea! I hope to try that at some point. Much easier than trying to store individual boxes here. I can see that becoming a real issue. There's a difference between being able to get some godawful "Don Polluto" any time one wants and the natural scarcity and shifting availabilities inherent to the CC supply.
gmoney Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 That process has already begun. The NCs got run off to a Tupperware container with a humidification device. The humi now holds nothing but CCs.I look forward to the day when I can justify a big cooler! http://www.aristocrathumidors.com/
CaptainQuintero Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 I'm new to the CC game, but it's something of a holy grail I've sought for years.After a first time visit to the Caribbean on a cruise this past winter (and a truly charming quest for CCs on the only non-US possession on which we set foot), I picked up a handful of CCs (Monte 4s, Boli RCs and Cohiba S IVs). I smoked 'em and whether for psychological, qualty or aesthetic reasons, it was all I'd hoped for. Returning home, the bloom was definitely off the rose for the array of Doms, Nics and Hondus in my humidor. So I got busy casting about and have added some Fonsecas (Cosacos), Partagas SP2, HdM EpiEsp, JLP Cazadores and more Boli RCs to the humi. But here's the question: to smoke or not to smoke. I wanted these babies badly and have only begun to learn the value of aging cigars that are so apparently "young." With the "domestics," such considerations never entered into the equation. Yet I want to smoke 'em. But I also want to experience 'em at their best. What's a poor-but-honest hillbilly to do? Any suggestions? Order up some relatively inexpensive sticks while waiting on the good stuff? Ration the good ones to myself? It really is quite a consideration. I perceive head-and-shoulders quality above the domestics already, but with all I've read here (and seen on the FOH vids), these things will only get better. I think I'm getting paranoid . . . maybe time to put down the tequila bottle. Welcome! I'm new too, only been smoking CC (or any cigars for that matter) for the past three years. I pretty much am working my way through single corona/petit corona of all the brands, keeping a diary of each one. If I get a standout flavour that I like then I make a note of that for in the future. For example Quintero was the first flavour profile which made me grin like an idiot so I bought a box. I am still working my way through different single and re-trying my favourites etc. I think for the first 6-7 years it's just an adventure to find out which brands/vitolas are your favourite. I have the same thinking about aging too but I only have one humidor with 120 stick capacity currently its: 25 Por Larranaga United Kingdom LE 2010 25 Quintero Bravas 25 Quintero Panatelas 6 assorted Monte 20 assorted singles from various brands I have the PL's sitting until they have 3/4 years on them, the Quintero for regular smoking and the singles for my exploration. The montes being left over from my last lot of regular smoking. I would like to replace the monte with a box of something else for regular smoking so I'm working my way through the singles to find something. It's probably going to be Cohiba secretos, Diplomaticos, Bolivar petit belicosos 09 or PL PC. I'm happy with what I'm doing which is all you need to be concerned with. You don't need to but 10 boxes unless you will be happy with that. I think the exploration of the different brands and keeping the cigar diary is the best way for me to learn the brands and also to find out my tastes/favourites for when I do want to buy more boxes. I'm of the opinion now that, find a stick that you enjoy smoking now and buy a box of it. If you want to smoke aged cigars, buy aged ones while buying singles to open your horizons. I think for me, as a beginner of CC you don't need to worry about keeping cigars for 5 years to age, enjoy the exploration of the different brands etc and worry about aging when you are settled and happy with your regular smokes
ramon_cojones Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 http://www.aristocrathumidors.com/ ^This is what I ended up with 2+ years of heavy smoking (50 box ct). Started off buying singles and humi bags, then a 170 ct desktop a few months later. It is not possible to age cigars this way plus cigars just taste better when they're aging inside their own homes (boxes). This way you'll have enough pent up inventory that they age by mere virtue of you not being able to smoke them fast enough. In the cases of cigars that are good right now like everyone said just smoke them. I used to treasure gifted cigars all the time in the beginning, hanging onto them for that "perfect" occasion to smoke them. You know what? Any time you have time to smoke is a perfect time. It also turned out that some of those cigars I held onto so dearly ended up not being that great so there is no point but to smoke them now. Remember, you can always buy more and the next cigar you smoke may just be your new favorite.
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