Standard Aristocrat or the THC model?

[perfectform]

I've seriously been entertaining the idea of getting an Aristocrat cabinet. The humidity and temp controlled one is double the price of the standard cabinet though. I live in Southern California and it can get quite toasty in the summer.

How important is temperature control really? I mean, a friend of mine has never had temperature control for his desktop and has never had beetle problems. Look forward to your input guys.

[Stormin691]

I've seriously been entertaining the idea of getting an Aristocrat cabinet. The humidity and temp controlled one is double the price of the standard cabinet though. I live in Southern California and it can get quite toasty in the summer.

How important is temperature control really? I mean, a friend of mine has never had temperature control for his desktop and has never had beetle problems. Look forward to your input guys.

I have an aristocrat cabinet and its beautiful! I live in Long Island, NY.. During the winter months there are no problems with the temp cause of the house heat.. However, during the summer unless A/C is on ALL day the temperature inside the humidor is the same as the temp in the house, so if for example the humidor is in a room where sun shines in and temp builds up your gonna heat up that environment... Not good for your investment not only your money but your time aging your collection... My advice if you plan on stocking up on these cigars, go the extra for the temp controlled model.. This way while your at work and you remember that u forgot to leave the A/C on you can rest assure your humidor is going the extra mile to protect your investment... JMHO... -Mike

[android]

Temp control is worth every penny.

[PartagasIV]

Had to protect the investment and didn't want to run my bedroom A/C all summer long and run up a bill that basically could have been a down payment on a THC. It gives me peace of mind that even if I'm away for a long weekend or weeks my cigars will be okay and 60F.

[ucla695]

Temp control is worth every penny.

Totally Agree. It's not that much more when you factor in how long you have the cabinet.

Had to protect the investment and didn't want to run my bedroom A/C all summer long and run up a bill that basically could have been a down payment on a THC. It gives me peace of mind that even if I'm away for a long weekend or weeks my cigars will be okay and 60F.

I went with the THC and am very happy I did. This way I don't have to crank the AC in the summer. I'll get THC on my next one too.

[anacostiakat]

Here the summers are hot and humid. I have an Avallo DDD Chilled unit for piece of mind as my house temps and humidity are a real problem during those months.

[josie67]

I JUST placed an order for the THC end table. Yes the price is double the non cooled price, but for me, just the thought of losing $5-6K in cigars due to a bug outbreak is worth every penny of the extra $1200 price tag. Plus, like was mentioned in above posts, just running the AC all day long for a full summer just to keep the cigars cool will probably cost as much as the upgrade to the THC.

[mash]

I have one of each. I have to keep the non-THC in the basement. Works fine, but a shame not to have it in full view. If I were to do it again I would get both cooled.

[Tampa1257]

I bought my Aristocrat THC Plus 48 when I lived in Florida and having a Temp Controlled unit was absoluetly needed. I love my humidor and now that I live in NC, I could use one that was not Temp controlled. It all depends upon where you live and the conditions. If you have high temp conditions for long periods, absolutely get a THC unit, well worth it in my opinion.

[tandblov]

Do you have air conditioning?

Up here, we only get a week or two of hot weather. I found that a window air conditioner was sufficient...

[perfectform]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I do have AC but certainly don't want to run it all day long. Before I got my wine fridge, temps inside the humidor were reaching mid-80's in the closet in the summertime.

I have read that Cuba's climate is like a natural humidor. I'm guessing they don't have temp controlled units to keep their cigars. Do they really have a lot of beetle outbreaks in the summer? It would seem to follow, but for some reason I dont't think they are that particular about temp control. Just musing here...

[Stalebread]

My end-table is THC. Glad I went that way. My apartment does not have AC. Although summer temps are not extreme, it does get hot and the unit sure earns its keep.

For me, it's not so much about beetle outbreak as much as it is keeping the cigars in a constant environment.

[tugboat]

Peace of mind

Protecting the investment

Quality control

and all of what they say.

If you don't go with the cooling you will regret it and have many sleepless nights.

[mbrody]

Mash, how hot does your basement humidor get?

I am in the same position and considering either moving my NON THC Cabinet to the basement or going with more Wine Coolers or going with one big A$$ THC model...

My basement gets to a steady 70F in the summer...good? bad? acceptable?

[thechenman]

Mash, how hot does your basement humidor get?

I am in the same position and considering either moving my NON THC Cabinet to the basement or going with more Wine Coolers or going with one big A$$ THC model...

My basement gets to a steady 70F in the summer...good? bad? acceptable?

I think that 70 degrees should be acceptable...I wouldn't worry about it unless you can't maintain your humidity at that temperature.

[ucla695]

Peace of mind

Protecting the investment

Quality control

and all of what they say.

If you don't go with the cooling you will regret it and have many sleepless nights.

It'll also help future proof your investment....who knows where you'll be living down the line...the cooler the better.

[PigFish]

I have replied to many threads like these and have performance charts all over this site showing the performance of different humidors. When I say performance I don't mean speculation of performance but actual data logs of different humidors showing real time temperature, humidity and dew-point data logged in real time. I am not saying that my opinion is better, or more valid than any others' but I am making a statement based on real verifiable data.

Living in SC you are likely a real candidate for a temperature controlled unit. The temperature swings in areas like yours can really raise havoc with your RH levels and after a few thousand cycles perhaps even with your cigars as well (this is speculation of course, I cannot prove damage to a cigar or provide a mean time to cigar failure based on environmental cycles; I don't think anyone can). The ultimate question is this. Is your 5k, 10k or 50k stash of cigars worth risking to unknowns? It is the fear of the unknowns that promote most desires to strictly control ones' cigar environment... myself included. I also like to know that I can reach for a cigar knowing that it is ready to smoke, with ready to smoke meaning that I know that the cigar is well within the range of water saturation that I prefer. It is not too dry and not too moist. With such a wide range of opinions and tastes between aficionados it is nice to know that active climate systems can accommodate most all of us that believe in preferential temperature and RH levels, and that they make a difference in the smoking experience. I believe that they do.

Non-active systems can also keep cigars really nicely. The fact is, this is based on data not speculation, the passive systems do a better job!!! Now this is going to come with a whole host of ****'s. The major caveat is that they must have some means to keep the humidity stable (beads, foam etc.) and they must be kept by an outside environment the exact right temperature. The last one is the killer. If you can't keep a 65 degree (or other) environment in your home then you need to provide a sub-environment for your cigars, OR an active refrigerated humidor. Lastly of course is that they are pain in the ass (my opinion only) and until they reach the perfect equilibrium point, they are slow reacting systems.

Active systems have a host of problems of their own. Most of these systems can't cool well enough, over cool, or over humidify. I have solved a lot of problems like these through several generations of small refrigerated systems. I am the only guy that I have ever seen provide data logs for systems. I find it no wonder because if you saw the data logs of common systems you may not pay 4 to 6 thousand bucks for one of them!

I have recently started the bookwork on an entirely new active system and I am really excited about the concept. I really do think that if my theory holds I will have uncovered a near perfect active humidor. I will be building one for demonstration and testing in a couple of months and will be happy to post some results about it. If it works very well and can be demonstrated to be a superior system to those that are available now, I may just produce them commercially. We shall see!

Best of luck on your quest. If you would like to see some charts or have other questions you can search the threads for more humidor talk or send me a message. - Piggy

[thechenman]

Best of luck Piggy...

[cvm4]

Active systems have a host of problems of their own. Most of these systems can't cool well enough, over cool, or over humidify. I have solved a lot of problems like these through several generations of small refrigerated systems. I am the only guy that I have ever seen provide data logs for systems. I find it no wonder because if you saw the data logs of common systems you may not pay 4 to 6 thousand bucks for one of them!

I noticed this with my THC. Temperature swings weren't the problem, but humidity swings were because it brings in fresh air anytime it turns on. Might get a dehumidifier for my room to combat this issue over the summer.

[perfectform]

I noticed this with my THC. Temperature swings weren't the problem, but humidity swings were because it brings in fresh air anytime it turns on. Might get a dehumidifier for my room to combat this issue over the summer.

What type of swings are we talking about here? I thought the THC's are supposed to keep it within a +/-2 range for humidity?

[PigFish]

What type of swings are we talking about here? I thought the THC's are supposed to keep it within a +/-2 range for humidity?

This is a fallacy! I don' think that suppliers are overtly dishonest about their results... they just don't know better. Unless you data log the system in different conditions you won't know how it performs. Here is a refrigerated system, one of mine, being test in 80-85 degree ambient and being adjusted for refrigeration cycle rate. (just as an example)

I will explain what is happening if you don't understand the chart. LMK. -R

[perfectform]

Piggy, those swings in humidity over the course of the day seem pretty wild to me. From between 50 and 65%? As I asked before, just how important is temperature? I know that keeping a stable humid environment is an absolute must, but I've seen cases first hand of an uncooled cigar collection with no ill effects at all over the course of years. What gives? Are we becomig too anal and/or pendejos, as James Suckling is referred to in Cuba? Sorry, couldn't resist.

[tugboat]

It just makes good sense for long term storage and aging purposes that you would want a steady environment for your cigars.

You have to remember the compositional evolution is on-going.

Tobacco, by nature, is living matter - and as such, will steadily alter over a period of time. Whether the "altering" will be considered rotting or aging will depend on storage conditions.

[PigFish]

Piggy, those swings in humidity over the course of the day seem pretty wild to me. From between 50 and 65%? As I asked before, just how important is temperature? I know that keeping a stable humid environment is an absolute must, but I've seen cases first hand of an uncooled cigar collection with no ill effects at all over the course of years. What gives? Are we becomig too anal and/or pendejos, as James Suckling is referred to in Cuba? Sorry, couldn't resist.

There is a lot to talk about here. I am working on some computer networking issues today and will reply as soon as I can. -R

[PigFish]

Piggy, those swings in humidity over the course of the day seem pretty wild to me. From between 50 and 65%? As I asked before, just how important is temperature? I know that keeping a stable humid environment is an absolute must, but I've seen cases first hand of an uncooled cigar collection with no ill effects at all over the course of years. What gives? Are we becomig too anal and/or pendejos, as James Suckling is referred to in Cuba? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Where to start.... first the caveats.

Who is going to step up and say that they know unequivocally what is or is not the best environment for your cigars? Certainly not me. I know what I like, what has worked for me, what has been empirically proven by my smoking and storing habits to be the right environment for my cigars. Beyond that there are the questions like; are these conditions perfect for aging, long term storage, etcetera, etcetera? I don't know the answer to those questions, like many of us, I can only speculate. If you take anything out of this, I am hoping that you understand that, while I know a little about how humidors work and what you can expect from them, I am no authority on what different conditions can and can't do to your cigars overtime. Somewhere around here is a quote from Van about subjective data and common knowledge about cigars. You could place that here!

I think that by leaving a cigar in a bowl of water, or on the dashboard of your 150 degree car one can see quickly that extreme conditions "can" be detrimental to your cigars. But beyond the extreme, in the realm of nominal conditions, where is that line that distinguishes what conditions will elicit positive or negative impacts on your cigars; hell... I don't know?

I do know what conditions impact how my cigars smoke. I know how to get a container that holds my cigars to those conditions and how to keep it there. "There" means within certain limits and boundaries of course. So to answer your question I start with a question. What do you think will ruin your cigars? What are the limits that you set as acceptable swings in the environment that you store your cigars? By answering those questions, by examining what value you put on your cigars, and how much you are willing to spend on the energy to keep them there, you will find the answers to your own questions.

I like to keep my cigars between 60 and 65 RH. I also like to keep my cigars between 65 and 70 degrees. By keeping my cigars there I know that I can go grab one and it will be ready to smoke. I think that I could likely find a good combination of temperature and humidity in a broad range of temperature and humidity combinations as long as the temperature does not keep changing. Since relative humidity is "relative" to temperature what I don't want is my temperature ranging 20, 30 or 40 degrees as my environment heats and cools, having my cigars heat and cool with it. I also don't what my cigars heating and cooling those ranges, day after day, year after year, decade after decade. I am speculating but I am making an educated guess that having cigars expand and contract day in and out, year after year may not be the best thing for them. Furthermore, since most humidors are sealed you could find your humidifier putting water into your system at 80 degrees, only to find that your humidity is 10 RH too high at 60 degrees. Temperature therefore is important. Ranging temperature will raise holy hell with your humidity. They are linked. If you are interested controlling humidity, you need to be interested also in controlling temperature. I don't think that the "set" temperature is as important as the "range" in temperature. When I say control temperature, I mean control the range in temperature as much as the set point in temperature.

So now you know why I believe in temperature controlled humidors. My home ranges rather significantly during different times of the year. During those time there is no way I could keep my environment stable without refrigeration. That is why I use it.

Now if you don't like those humidity ranges, don't spend the money on a temperature controlled humidor. Well you had better not open the door to your humidor either! These changes that you see, while not perfect, represent what all (ones that I know of) commercial humidors send your cigars through whenever the cooling system cycles. That is what you are witnessing in the chart. The cooling system comes on line and cools the air, drying it (laws of physics you know) at the same time. After or during the cycle (depending on the system you buy) the active humidifier looks to replace that water vapor and bring you back to your desired level. I think mine work better than most but you must know that they all range due to the laws of physics. Some humidors can't even keep up with the warmer conditions. Can you imagine what those humidors are doing as far a drying the air in those instances. I believe people don't worry about it because their instruments simply don't respond quickly enough to show them what is really going on in there with their precious cigars!!! The data log that created the chart samples every 10 seconds and has a .5 RH resolution. What you see on the chart is then what is really going on in the humidor. I am not guessing or speculating on the data. The data is real time.

I can explain further (rationalize) why I choose to have my humidors perform the way i choose to have them perform but I don't know whether that is what you were looking for. What I wanted to convey to you is this; humidity is linked to temperature and it is the change in temperature that raises hell with your humidity. All cooled humidors cycle and affect humidity. If you don't like what you see, don't buy one!

Lastly... I am working on a new theory for humidor design (very simple actually) of a cooled humidor that won't have these drastic effects on humidity (theoretically). I will be building one here shortly and as always I will be happy to publish my results.

Cheers, Piggy