Long Term Storage in Coolidor

[bkmynn]

Just hoping to hear some experiences of storing boxes of cigars in a coolidor for the long term - say a 3-5 years.

Specifically, I've got some concerns if the plastic of the cooler impacting the taste of the cigar.

I am just too paranoid?

[dochowl]

Good question... just from my experience, I've seen no such issues. I've been using coolers for long term storage for 8 or 9 years and have had no problems whatsoever. That said, all of my cigars in the coolers are boxed as I keep loose cigars in my main humidor.

[Wiley]

I've never noticed anything like that, and I'm pretty confident I would if it was there. If not, this is definitely the wrong hobby!

[Colt45]

I think it's a very effective solution.

[Ginseng]

Just hoping to hear some experiences of storing boxes of cigars in a coolidor for the long term - say a 3-5 years.

Specifically, I've got some concerns if the plastic of the cooler impacting the taste of the cigar.

I am just too paranoid?

I have 9 or 10 coolers of varying capacities up to 48 qt. I'm a Coleman fan. I can say unequivocally that up to 8 years in coolers results in nothing more terrible than perfectly conditioned, delicious smelling, great smoking Habanos. Of course, I should say that all cigars are stored in their original boxes or reused slide lid boxes or cabinets and I also line the walls with spare cedar sheet or boards from broken up SLBs.

Wilkey

[PigFish]

I think as stated they are a reasonably priced, viable cigar storage solutions. One thing is for sure, cigars will absorb smells and VOC emissions. New plastics emit odors and you should clean any plastic storage, regardless the design, extremely well and deodorize it to the best of your ability before putting it to use. -Piggy

[Shelby07]

Never had a problem. The only thing I do before I put cigars in a cooler is to fill it to the brim with water, take a cup of water out and replace it with a cup of bleach. Let it sit for an hour or so then empty and dry it. It will neutralize any odors from an old or new cooler. I'm not even sure it's necessary, but I figure it can't hurt (and it never has.)

[Yoruba Hacker]

I have 9 or 10 coolers of varying capacities up to 48 qt. I'm a Coleman fan. I can say unequivocally that up to 8 years in coolers results in nothing more terrible than perfectly conditioned, delicious smelling, great smoking Habanos. Of course, I should say that all cigars are stored in their original boxes or reused slide lid boxes or cabinets and I also line the walls with spare cedar sheet or boards from broken up SLBs.

Wilkey

What he said.

Coincidentally, I have to get another one cause mine are filled to the brim, and I plan on getting some more cigars in the near future. Like others have said, if you just wash the coolers thoroughly when you first get them, find some cedar from old boxes to line the bottom and the sides as you start to fill things up (the guys at my cigar bar save them for me - ask a friendly tobacconist), and use the coolers for full boxes (vs. desktops for singles), you should be fine. It's been my preferred method for several years now with great result.

I will say that one must be diligent about checking humidity. Mold is a real risk with this approach.

[bkmynn]

What he said.

Coincidentally, I have to get another one cause mine are filled to the brim, and I plan on getting some more cigars in the near future. Like others have said, if you just wash the coolers thoroughly when you first get them, find some cedar from old boxes to line the bottom and the sides as you start to fill things up (the guys at my cigar bar save them for me - ask a friendly tobacconist), and use the coolers for full boxes (vs. desktops for singles), you should be fine. It's been my preferred method for several years now with great result.

I will say that one must be diligent about checking humidity. Mold is a real risk with this approach.

All. Thanks for all the insight.

Would it be appropriate to open the cooler for a few hours a couple of times per week? (is this necessary if I use humidity beads?)

I plan to add some humiditiy beads, and a fan to circulate the air as well. From what I've read, this should be effective.

Plus, it should save me a few bucks as opposed to buying a cabinet...wife is still not happy, but at least I won't be sleeping on the couch for a week.

[Yoruba Hacker]

All. Thanks for all the insight.

Would it be appropriate to open the cooler for a few hours a couple of times per week? (is this necessary if I use humidity beads?)

I plan to add some humiditiy beads, and a fan to circulate the air as well. From what I've read, this should be effective.

Plus, it should save me a few bucks as opposed to buying a cabinet...wife is still not happy, but at least I won't be sleeping on the couch for a week.

Dude you only need to do the aiing out thing once a month or so. At least that's how often I do it.

A fan? In a Coleman-type cooler? Or have I got you wrong and you're talking Wine cooler?

A cabinet is cool, but one spend 15 bucks on a cooler and put the difference towards cigars. And it isn't the

constant reminder to the wife of how irresponsible and extravagant you are being.

[Ginseng]

Piggy and Shelby raise good points. Some folks soak with dilute bleach solution, others, like myself favor baking soda. About a half cup in a half gallon of hot water with a squirt or dish detergent or Johnson's Baby Shampoo for about 2 hours does a good job at neutralizing the initial plastic smell in a 48-50 qt cooler. this is my preferred standard size and standard conditioning procedure. In very few cases, I have come across a cooler that smells so strongly of plastic or some other additive that it stinks even after a few cycles of the soak process. In that case, I leave it open, preferably in a sunny spot indoors or out, for a day and then cycle it again. If this does not work, then my wife gets a new cooler for storing her craft supplies.

And as Hacker stated, humidity monitoring is essential with coolers. Primarily, this is because the plastic walls and insulation make it essentially impermeable to moisture or air exchange. Quite a contrast to large cabinets which might require substantial reservoirs of water and active humidity control. This is both a strength and a weakness of the system. Nicely filled and properly humidified, you might not need to add water or touch up beads perhaps once every few months. And for deep storage coolers where I open up just 3 or 4 times a year, I don't make minor adjustments but once or twice a year. If you use coolers, I highly recommend getting a multichannel remote wireless humidity/temperature monitoring system. Oregon Scientific are among the most popular.

In reference to bykmnn's questions, if you occasionally open your coolers to retrieve cigars or add new boxes, you should not need to do any sort of regular airing out. Properly humidified, there simply is no need. And think of this. When you open up a long dormant cooler, you encounter a most wonderful wave of intense tobacco aroma. This scent is composed of good smelling flavor and aroma compounds coming out of your cigars and into the airspace in the cooler. Why would you want to regularly open up the cooler to let this out? I believe your question about the fan was in reference to the D-cell-powered Oust fans sold for room perfumatizing and freshening. I don't use them. If you keep your cooler full and properly maintained, the cigars are in a perfect state from top to bottom. You are letting diffusion processes move things around and that's the gentlest way to achieve and maintain equilibrium.

Now, that said, using coolers means you might have to take additional steps to maintain stasis in your units. For example, many vendors send cigars that are substantially overhumidified. This is true of NC and Habanos online retailers. They sometimes come in sensibly damp and spongy in the hand at equivalent RH of 75% or more! If you put several boxes like this into an otherwise stable cooler, you'll be adding a real slug of moisture to the system. And so I maintain another 1 or 2 coolers strictly for equilibrating incoming boxes. I keep these dry and mostly empty save for some spare cabs or cedar planks from SLBs. When you drop a box in, you can see the humidity spike right up. Then, as the dry silica starts to mop up the excess moisture, the RH will start coming down. Sometimes I've had to put in a small dish of calcium chloride (Damp-Rid) to really take it down if I'm receiving a few boxes at once. Monitor the RH and when it comes past your target by 2-4%, then take out the drying agents and let the humidity come back up. Once it is stable at your storage RH, then the boxes are ready to be put into your storage coolers.

And right on to Hacker's last post. A well-filled $24 48-50qt cooler will hold anywhere from $500 to $4,000 worth of cigars. For those who are inclined toward this end of the utility/value spectrum, it's a complete win.

Wilkey

[Bartolomeo]

Vino is full, cooler is my next step.......Its cooler here in NC now so debating on where to put cooler, in the garage or office with Vino. Will have to do some experimenting with the temperature differences.

My cigars in my Vino dont go below 60* year round where I am thinking my garage probably gets below 60* during the winter, will set up a Hygrometer to gather some information.

I would like another Vino and probably will buy another, but the cooler may be the best alternative until then

Of course an Aristocrat is the goal in the future but not anytime soon

Bart

[Bartolomeo]

Vino is full, cooler is my next step.......Its cooler here in NC now so debating on where to put cooler, in the garage or office with Vino. Will have to do some experimenting with the temperature differences.

My cigars in my Vino dont go below 60* year round where I am thinking my garage probably gets below 60* during the winter, will set up a Hygrometer to gather some information.

I would like another Vino and probably will buy another, but the cooler may be the best alternative until then

Of course an Aristocrat is the goal in the future but not anytime soon

Bart

Scratch that, just bought a floor model of the Vinotemp 21 ct bottle for $150 @ Lowes.........will get this up and running ASAP

Bart

[Torpo]

I'm glad this topic is being discussed. I use 65% rh Pucks in 48qt coolers. The humidity will not stay at 65, it maintains at 69%-70% and will go to 73% on hot days. This rh is higher than I like. I assumed that it was due to the characteristics of the plastic, which Wilky discussed. (The Pucks perform pretty well in my cedar humidors). What affect will this humidity fluctuation have it the proper maintenance/aging process? Will the cedar lining address this issue?

[Ginseng]

I'm glad this topic is being discussed. I use 65% rh Pucks in 48qt coolers. The humidity will not stay at 65, it maintains at 69%-70% and will go to 73% on hot days. This rh is higher than I like. I assumed that it was due to the characteristics of the plastic, which Wilky discussed. (The Pucks perform pretty well in my cedar humidors). What affect will this humidity fluctuation have it the proper maintenance/aging process? Will the cedar lining address this issue?

This tells me that 1) your cigars are holding sufficient moisture to create a 69-70% environment in the airspace of the cooler and/or 2) beads are not necessary. Please also note where your hygrometer is in relation to the sensor. Too close and you might not be getting a true reading of the environment especially if conditions are changing due to removal or addition of stock. Especially addition of new, moist stock. When this is the case, I would put in a sizeable tray of dry, straight from the jar unscented, silica crystal kitty litter to take up the excess. The cedar lining might help but if your cooler is pretty full...probably not much if at all. The fluctuation you're seeing, 4% is not horrible. If the swing occurs during a single day, in the summer, then I'd still wager that your cigars are not really suffering too much. I say this because your sensor will be out in the relatively small volume of airspace between the boxes in the cooler. So, while you may be getting some humidity migrating from the walls (and outer layers of cigars) of the boxes in your cooler, the center of the bundles, interiors of the cigars should not see anywhere near that swing. This is a basic mass transfer consideration in terms of diffusion profiles...which is a fancy way of saying that the cigars in the middle are buffered by the cigars on the outside.

Strictly speaking, while it is considered desirable to have little to no variation, or variation on a long time scale (e.g., 4% from February to August as opposed to within one day), I don't think anyone has quantified the effect of regular, frequent, short term fluctuations.

Wilkey

[Colt45]

I'm glad this topic is being discussed. I use 65% rh Pucks in 48qt coolers. The humidity will not stay at 65, it maintains at 69%-70% and will go to 73% on hot days. This rh is higher than I like. I assumed that it was due to the characteristics of the plastic, which Wilky discussed. (The Pucks perform pretty well in my cedar humidors). What affect will this humidity fluctuation have it the proper maintenance/aging process? Will the cedar lining address this issue?

Wilkey has addressed fluctuation - my simple suggestion to lower your cooler humidity is to add more beads, and to not moisten them -

and if possible, keep your coolers away from direct sunlight, heat etc - as stable an environment as possible.

My coolers / tupperware are my most stable humidors. I don't use additional cedar and rarely have to add water or dessicant.

[Ginseng]

Wilkey has addressed fluctuation - my simple suggestion to lower your cooler humidity is to add more beads, and to not moisten them -

and if possible, keep your coolers away from direct sunlight, heat etc - as stable an environment as possible.

My coolers / tupperware are my most stable humidors. I don't use additional cedar and rarely have to add water or dessicant.

Excellent points on cooler placement, Ross. I keep my coolers in the basement where it is cool year round, and of course, there is no sunshine. Adding more beads is a possibility. But at $31/lb. I gotta say...ouch! At least in this application. If what you want to do is to bring down the humidity to a point where you can then eventually regulate it, then silica kitty litter at $8 for 4 lb. is just so much more cost effective.

Wilkey

[Colt45]

Excellent points on cooler placement, Ross. I keep my coolers in the basement where it is cool year round, and of course, there is no sunshine. Adding more beads is a possibility. But at $31/lb. I gotta say...ouch! At least in this application. If what you want to do is to bring down the humidity to a point where you can then eventually regulate it, then silica kitty litter at $8 for 4 lb. is just so much more cost effective.

Wilkey

Wilkey, I should clarify that for my coolers, I use crystal litter as well. Same here with the basement - the coolers are so simple and easy to maintain -

but I realize that for some, they are not an elegant or aesthetically pleasing solution. But for me as a low cost, low maintenance mass storage

solution, they can't be beat.

[PigFish]

I was considering starting a humidor workshop. I don't rightly know that I have any more or less qualifications than anyone else around here except that I tend to take my projects perhaps a bit more seriously than most. With that being said I do think that there is some general interest around this joint for humidor function and control. The fact remains in my book the simpler the better. Unfortunately simple does not work in all our climates. With energy prices on the rise sometime we must provide specific environments just for our cigars.

This is in my opinion how cigars should be treated. But unless I keep my home at this level day and night, day in and day out, which I cannot afford to do, I am forced to build specialty humidors to regulate their environment for me.

Here to start is Humidor 101:

What do you expect from a humidor? It makes you wonder… well, it makes me wonder sometimes what is going on inside my humidors when I am jet-setting around opining about cigars. Do you ever wonder just how well your humidor works? Since I started my work in refrigerated humidors I have become more interested in humidor performance.

I am not going to proffer a bunch of theory here. I am going to start and subsequently end this initial topic of humidor performance with a simple graph and a statement. If you can keep your home within a narrow range of temperature there really is nothing better than a standard wooden humidor with an active humidification system to balance natural evaporation. Depending on how dry the climate is you may very well be satisfied with a passive humidification system.

This graph is of my Aristocrat humidor. The samples rate is one every 10 seconds. If you keep your room at the right temperature for your cigars then there is no reason that a relatively simple solution is anything less than a perfect solution.

You will notice the recovery curve for the humidor at the beginning of the chart. It is interesting to note the time that any humidor takes to recover from the simple task of opening the door.

I will end with this statement. If you don’t have large swings of temperatures in your home you will likely be better off with a simple humidor without the need for cooling. If you live in a climate where your cigars will be forced to make large temperature swings throughout the day… well that is another story and another lesson.

I am willing to say that no refrigerated humidor, none that I have seen anyway, can match this performance. An exterior controlled consistent temperature environment with an internal humidity control is, in my opinion, the best way to treat cigars. Once the control of the temperature is moved inside the humidor, the dynamic is completely changed. - the Pig

[Torpo]

I know that wood retains and releases moisture (breaths). I've wondered weather the plastic would create an unnatural climate for storage/aging. It builds humidity and creates an intense little environment. Because of this, I've resorted to leaving the tops open once a week or so to reduce the humidity build up, concerned about the possible negative effect of the higher rh/fluctuation. It doesn't work. No matter how often I release the moisture, it returns to 70%. I'll try the kitty litter but do you leave it in indefinitely?

Just saw your post, Piggy. Outside temp control seems to be the least intrusive.

[PigFish]

Torpo you may wish to bake your kitty litter and really dry it out. Remember if you get a bag of this stuff and let it sit around in say 60%rh (ambient) it will take on the equivalent amount of moisture to get it to equilibrium. My friends (above) know of what they are talking about. Once you get a lot of moisture in your plastic humidor it is tough to get it out! It took me months to move a static 67RH sealed humidor down to 63RH. If you think that a 40 qt. vessel is going to dry in a couple of days once its contents are 70RH I hate to say you are in for a rude awakening but you had better be prepared to be patient.

If you have your cigar in boxes don't hesitate to leave your cooler open for extended periods in dry environments to shed the excess water. It is that or the kitty litter. Good luck. -Piggy

[Ginseng]

I know that wood retains and releases moisture (breaths). I've wondered weather the plastic would create an unnatural climate for storage/aging. It builds humidity and creates an intense little environment. Because of this, I've resorted to leaving the tops open once a week or so to reduce the humidity build up, concerned about the possible negative effect of the higher rh/fluctuation. It doesn't work. No matter how often I release the moisture, it returns to 70%. I'll try the kitty litter but do you leave it in indefinitely?

Let's clarify something in your statment. If you load a bunch of cigars into a cooler, whether it be plastic or stainless steel, then seal it, what's inside will stay inside and what's outside will stay outside. If it goes in at 65% RH, then it will stay at 65% RH until something changes this such as leaving the lid open for a period of time or charging several boxes of cigars at a significantly higher humidity. Humidity cannot and will not "build" under these conditions. However, it may appear to as the moisture in the cigars and boxes comes back out to reestablish the equilibrium in the cooler's airspace. Engineers state this as Input + Generation = Output + Accumulation. In a steady-state, non-reactive condition, generation and accumulation are zero and input must equal output. That is to say, moisture doesn't just "appear" in your cooler to make it more and more humid. If you are finding that the RH in your cooler tends to 70%, then this suggests that your cigars and the boxes they are stored in contain sufficient moisture to (re)create a 70% RH environment in equilibrium. If you want to bring it down, then try the DampRid trick. Go to Lowe's, buy a box of unscented DampRid and put a dish containing 4 ounces in your cooler. Within a week, those crystals will have pulled a significant amount of moisture out of the the internal environment (including the cigars and boxes) and the humidity will drop accordingly. Then take out the DampRid. The humidity will rebound a bit as the cigars and boxes reach a new equilibrium. If it after 2 weeks, it's above where you want it to be, then repeat with the DampRid.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

If you have your cigar in boxes don't hesitate to leave your cooler open for extended periods in dry environments to shed the excess water. It is that or the kitty litter. Good luck. -Piggy

The main reason I don't recommend leaving a cooler open as a way to dry out contents is that this means all the great smelling volatile goodies that make Habanos smell so good come out along with the moisture. If you use calcium chloride, you get the water out fast and take much less of the aromatic compounds with it. I have accidentally left a box out in my basement overnight and you can instantly tell the next day, walking down the steps, that cigars are out in the open. But CaCl2 works fast. You just have to be careful not to spill any of the solution that forms. It's as pentrating as propylene glycol.

Wilkey

[PigFish]

I thought this chart was telling.

What it shows is the effects of a temperature drop on a sealed humidor and RH. There is in fact no appreciable water being added to the system. The RH line is increasing according to a corresponding drop in ambient temperature. Moving the ambient temperature around wreaks havoc on you RH readings so you should take that into account when you are looking at your system and making determinations. - Piggy

[PigFish]

The main reason I don't recommend leaving a cooler open as a way to dry out contents is that this means all the great smelling volatile goodies that make Habanos smell so good come out along with the moisture. If you use calcium chloride, you get the water out fast and take much less of the aromatic compounds with it. I have accidentally left a box out in my basement overnight and you can instantly tell the next day, walking down the steps, that cigars are out in the open. But CaCl2 works fast. You just have to be careful not to spill any of the solution that forms. It's as pentrating as propylene glycol.

Wilkey

You make a compelling argument my friend. I have to wonder however if the compounds are missable in and bonded to the water vapor or are they separate? If they are bonded to the water then I would think that desiccating compounds would remove the VC's as well. I wonder if we could find a cash of colloidal cigar "smell." -LOL I was careful to say that by keeping the cigars in boxes would allow the boxes themselves to release excess water without undue circulation of air around the cigars. Whether the boxes themselves create a barrier around the cigar protecting the compounds or if the amounts detected by the human nose are sufficient to affect flavor is a step above my pay grade!!!

Hmmm. I just remembered! I owe you a check!!! -LOL -R