Long Term Storage in Coolidor

[Ginseng]

I thought this chart was telling.

What it shows is the effects of a temperature drop on a sealed humidor and RH. There is in fact no appreciable water being added to the system. The RH line is increasing according to a corresponding drop in ambient temperature. Moving the ambient temperature around wreaks havoc on you RH readings so you should take that into account when you are looking at your system and making determinations. - Piggy

Interesting data, Piggy. How full was this cabinet? This trend illustrates well the concept of relative humidity. As temperature drops, its moisture holding capacity drops. Thus, without a reservoir to take up this excess moisture, the RH must rise as the saturation concentration (and its proxy, the dew point) falls.

Wilkey

[Ginseng]

You make a compelling argument my friend. I have to wonder however if the compounds are missable in and bonded to the water vapor or are they separate? If they are bonded to the water then I would think that desiccating compounds would remove the VC's as well. I wonder if we could find a cash of colloidal cigar "smell." -LOL I was careful to say that by keeping the cigars in boxes would allow the boxes themselves to release excess water without undue circulation of air around the cigars. Whether the boxes themselves create a barrier around the cigar protecting the compounds or if the amounts detected by the human nose are sufficient to affect flavor is a step above my pay grade!!!

Hmmm. I just remembered! I owe you a check!!! -LOL -R

Well, since tobacco itself contains roughly 14% moisture by weight, this suggests that at least some of the compounds contained in a fermented leaf that are water soluble, miscible. But when they or the oil soluble compounds volatilize, they are no longer bound to the water that is now in vapor form. The silica will capture both. However, calcium chloride and its solution, will provide a reservoir for primarily for the water soluble compounds. The evidence suggestive of this has to do with the smell. Silica (and PG solution) smell strongly of tobacco when kept in a cooler for an extended period. CaCl2 solution, however, smells much less. But then again, the salt solution typically stays in for a shorter time. Believe me, if I could extract eau de Habanos, I'd be spraying this stuff all over my clothes, car, office...

Without a doubt, any buffer is a good buffer. Boxes, cabs, Ziplocs. Keeping the cigars quiescent and minimizing the loss of aromatics by whatever means can only be beneficial. I supposed in a sense it's like taking vitamins. For the average person, taking them might not help much or at all, but it probably couldn't hurt. A weak argument for sure...but in the absence of data such as you have generated, it's all we've got. That and deep, considered experience.

It's always a pleasure conversing with you, sir. We've got to sit down for a cigar some day.

Wilkey

[demiurgic]

*Sigh

If only H.S.A were half as scientific about establishing consistancy of their blends as some of the folks on this forum are about establishing consistancy about their plastic coolers, we'd be rolling!

Mold and high temps are really hard for my humidors to battle and I think I'll try and find some CRYSTAL KITTY LITTER (best brand for this purpose?) to replace/aid my $40 per LB beads into sucking some of that humidity out.

And yes, Damp rid, really does work for those who are wondering.

[PigFish]

Interesting data, Piggy. How full was this cabinet? This trend illustrates well the concept of relative humidity. As temperature drops, its moisture holding capacity drops. Thus, without a reservoir to take up this excess moisture, the RH must rise as the saturation concentration (and its proxy, the dew point) falls.

Wilkey

Yes!

I thought the graph illustrated your postulate above quite well and demonstrated the correlation of RH to temperature rather nicely. The cabinet in this graph is about 65% full.

I further agree Wilkey that many of the worlds ailments could be solved by us with the assistance of a few nice Habanos and a few adult beverages!!! To that day! Cheers my friend. -R

[Ginseng]

*Sigh

If only H.S.A were half as scientific about establishing consistancy of their blends as some of the folks on this forum are about establishing consistancy about their plastic coolers, we'd be rolling!

Mold and high temps are really hard for my humidors to battle and I think I'll try and find some CRYSTAL KITTY LITTER (best brand for this purpose?) to replace/aid my $40 per LB beads into sucking some of that humidity out.

And yes, Damp rid, really does work for those who are wondering.

LOL! Maybe they should take a few of us as interns (or consultants) on a rotating basis? I'll take my pay in, what else, cigars.

As for the crystal litter, there was once a brand called ExquisiCat. I don't know if it exists. I just go to the pet aisle of my local grocery and look for the big plastic tub, look for the unscented stuff. IME, it doesn't matter if it has blue crystals mixed in or not. It doesn't seem to affect things as far as I can tell because it's not absorbing bulk amounts of liquid, aka: cat pee. I would note that if you use this as a humidifying material, when spraying with water to refresh, do so with a fine mist and mix the crystals after each spray. A heavy, large-droplet spray will instantly cause these things to crack apart into fragments.

Wilkey

Cheers, Piggy!

[PigFish]

Why is it Wilkey, that when we get started other folks stop posting??? I am getting the opinion "YOU'RE" a threadcrasher!!! -LOL

Cheers back Amigo! -Ray

[Ginseng]

Why is it Wilkey, that when we get started other folks stop posting??? I am getting the opinion "YOU'RE" a threadcrasher!!! -LOL

Cheers back Amigo! -Ray

Hehe. That does seem to occur with disturbing regularity, doesn't it?

Wilkey

[Colt45]

Why is it Wilkey, that when we get started other folks stop posting???

Hehe. That does seem to occur with disturbing regularity, doesn't it?

Hypotenuse!

[Ginseng]

Oscar has a heap of apples.

First one to decode gets a fiver. Geeks need only apply and no Googling please!

Wilkey

[PigFish]

Hypotenuse!

I had one of those as a kid and my mom told me to stop playing with it before I hanged myself! Cheers to you too Amigo! -Ray

[Torpo]

Gentlemen, thanks for the tutorial. I have had concerns about this issue. When one takes the time (and expense) to build an inventory and use what could be considered unconventional equipment for storage, this information is necessary and difficult to find. I'm picking up some kitty litter.

Would you care to comment on the most desirable RH and temp for aging in coolers. 65-65%? I have been storing/aging at the 70% rh by default (65% Pucks are kept dry) but maintain a cedar humidor for daily smoking at 64-65% rh. I store the coolers in a cool cedar walk in closet so the temp is around 68.

I'm concerned about too much moisture (mold, and expansion/contraction causing cracking at foot, etc).

[Ginseng]

Gentlemen, thanks for the tutorial. I have had concerns about this issue. When one takes the time (and expense) to build an inventory and use what could be considered unconventional equipment for storage, this information is necessary and difficult to find. I'm picking up some kitty litter.

Would you care to comment on the most desirable RH and temp for aging in coolers. 65-65%? I have been storing/aging at the 70% rh by default (65% Pucks are kept dry) but maintain a cedar humidor for daily smoking at 64-65% rh. I store the coolers in a cool cedar walk in closet so the temp is around 68.

I'm concerned about too much moisture (mold, and expansion/contraction causing cracking at foot, etc).

My pleasure.

As to storage RH and temperature, that is one of the fundamental debates in the hobby. It's been going on since I joined up and will carry on well after. I have learned from experience and extensive reading and discussion that storage between 60-65% RH for time frames in the range of 5-15+ years is suitable. There are opinions that the longer you go (2 or more decades), the colder and drier you want to be, but something about this makes me uncomfortable. However, since I don't intend to age cigars that long, the point is moot for me. Over the last 8 or 9 months, I've been moving my stock from 65-67% down to 63-65%. Basically, just drying things out a bit in general because of an influx of new stock that seems more moist than usual. Under gently undulating conditions between 58-65%, you should not experience any physical damage due to expansion contraction. What does result in split feet is rapid movement from dry to moist conditions. See this neat little explanation from Tabacos de la Cordillera.

Though I am storing my cigars at an average of 64%, I still try to humidify, either by wet box or rinsing, before I smoke. I generally find cigars at 67-70% smoking humidity the most flavorful and satisfying. The aromas, texture, and flavors are richer, deeper, and sweeter.

Wilkey

[thechenman]

Great thread guys. Very fascinating...I honestly learned a lot from this. Wilkey and Piggy...you two never cease to amaze me. Thanks.

[Torpo]

Has anyone used 100% unscented dried clay (kitty litter) to bring down the RH? I haven't been able to find the crystal silica.