Kangaroo495 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 From the Australian Shooter Magazine this week, which is quoted below. "If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the past 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers. The firearm death rate in Washington , DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. That means you are about 25 per cent more likely to be shot and killed in the US capital, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US , than you are in Iraq. Conclusion: "The US should pull out of Washington." (Haven't double checked the statistics with other sources. It could be bullsh1t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechenman Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Wouldn't surprise me. D.C. has a very high crime rate, and it is no surprise that the major metropolitan population centers have higher crime and murder rates. Sometimes you just gotta get your crack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van55 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gun-deaths-joke.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 That is a surprising (and I guess damning) statistic. From what I understand, DC has one of the highest homicide rates in the USA. As far as gun control laws issue goes, I guess they are inherently inept at reducing gun violence amongst unlawful users. Criminals obtain weapons through unlawful (and therefore unregulated) sources. This doesn't make it any less tragic, but it's difficult in that context to examine the effectiveness of gun laws. What I would say about the military statistic is that I would imagine there would be higher rates of deaths in non-firearm related areas such as deaths from explosions. This seems to be the nature of modern warfare. It's an interesting comparison but plenty of things to take into account... On a related note but slightly of topic (apologies), my Pop passed away last week. He did his time in the army during WWII (British 9th division) and reflecting on his life I thank him for his sacrifice (8yrs of his youth) and those of his generation. Also, thanks to those serviceman and woman doing the same right now. Just thought I'd share... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anacostiakat Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 From the Australian Shooter Magazine this week, which is quoted below."If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the past 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers. The firearm death rate in Washington , DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. That means you are about 25 per cent more likely to be shot and killed in the US capital, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US , than you are in Iraq. Conclusion: "The US should pull out of Washington." (Haven't double checked the statistics with other sources. It could be bullsh1t) Eh! Actually you can legally own a gun in DC now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kangaroo495 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/gun-deaths-joke.htm So it's bollocks. In any case, would be good to hear the thought of the US members on this topic. The whole second ammendment thing is something which is beyond the comprehension of any non-US citizen. Why so many guns? Who needs it? I think it was a Japanese general who once said that invading the US would be an impossible task as there would be "a rifle under every blade of grass"! Perhaps that is the rationale of the second ammendment? Protection from invasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kangaroo495 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 On a related note but slightly of topic (apologies), my Pop passed away last week. He did his time in the army during WWII (British 9th division) and reflecting on his life I thank him for his sacrifice (8yrs of his youth) and those of his generation. Also, thanks to those serviceman and woman doing the same right now. Just thought I'd share... Nice, thanks. Would be interesting to know where he served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 So it's bollocks.In any case, would be good to hear the thought of the US members on this topic. The whole second ammendment thing is something which is beyond the comprehension of any non-US citizen. Why so many guns? Who needs it? I think it was a Japanese general who once said that invading the US would be an impossible task as there would be "a rifle under every blade of grass"! Perhaps that is the rationale of the second ammendment? Protection from invasion? Well given the success of militiaman in the war of independence you're probably right in saying that the 'right to bear arms' would be a safeguard from foreign forces that was factored into their constitution. Is that applicable now? Probably not. The USA is not going to be invaded successfully, ever. It's not redcoats or Japanese now, it's a bloke in a suit with a bomb in his briefcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Nice, thanks. Would be interesting to know where he served. North Africa, in the radio corps. Somehow managed to get himself known as a technology expert and thanks to being a good sportsman spent a lot of the time either opening bat or boxing for his division. Still, 8 years away from home and he did his part in it all. My Grandpa on my mother's side was bit of a different story, combat unit in New Guinea, shot (non-lethal thank god or I wouldn't be here) by a Japanese sniper. Never met him. Thanks for the interest Kanga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkz Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Why so many guns? Who needs it? Homer Simpson has the answer... "If I didn't have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here any time he wants, and start shoving you around." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechenman Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The 2nd Amendment, a.k.a. the right to bear arms, I believe was instittuted int he Constitution because as a young country America really did not have an army. It relied on militias to help defend its shores as was the case in the War of Independence. I think also that the Founding Fathers believed in less government...unfortuantely, something we no longer have in the U.S. today. Anyway...I think they wanted citizens to also have a way of defending themselves against the government, should the call ever arise. Independence was a big thing then as it is now, and they wanted Americans to be able to defend their rights and protect themselves in the eventuality government wanted to usurp their civil liberties. This of course isn't the official doctrine...just my thoughts on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechenman Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 dicko...sorry to hear about your grandfather's passing. Sounds like a real great guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicko Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 dicko...sorry to hear about your grandfather's passing. Sounds like a real great guy. Thanks mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellery Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The 2nd Amendment, a.k.a. the right to bear arms, I believe was instittuted int he Constitution because as a young country America really did not have an army. It relied on militias to help defend its shores as was the case in the War of Independence. I think also that the Founding Fathers believed in less government...unfortuantely, something we no longer have in the U.S. today. Anyway...I think they wanted citizens to also have a way of defending themselves against the government, should the call ever arise. Independence was a big thing then as it is now, and they wanted Americans to be able to defend their rights and protect themselves in the eventuality government wanted to usurp their civil liberties. This of course isn't the official doctrine...just my thoughts on the matter. I agree with thechenman that initially, the 2nd amendment was necessary. Over time, it just "stayed around" Not sure how media in the rest of the world is, but in the US, media over-dramatizes everything, and can put fear in the general public. I understand your freedom to have weapons, etc. And I understand that there is a hobby/love for the beauty of nice firearm, but I believe that many of the people that have weapons do it out of fear/anxiety. Fear of being robbed, bombed, attacked etc. I just read this last wk of a man that shot and killed his fiance because he heard "something" in the other room. My father had a gun in the house, went to the shooting range, went hunting etc. The idea of owning a gun doesn't appeal to me. I have never shot a gun, let alone held one. Im not questioning the necessity of the amendment...hey, if you want a gun, then get one. My question is what is your motive for the gun? And my condolences to you and your family dicko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa1257 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights. What is the 2nd Amendment? "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Now for my personal opinion. I have grown up around Handguns, Rifles and Shotguns all my life. My fathers hobby since he was 9 was a Gunsmith. I was taught Gun safety when I was still in diapers. From the time I was old enough to hold a gun, I was taught how to shoot, care for a weapon, yet MOST of all RESPECT for what a Gun can and will do. It will Kill. If you point a gun at something you had better understand that whatever you are pointing it at will die. They are not for "Playing" with. While serving in the US Army, I shot several different types of weapons, I qualified as an Expert with both a Handgun (Colt 1911 .45 cal) and with a rifles (M16 2.23). As a Tank Commander, my duty weapon was a .50 cal as well as the 105mm Main Battle Tank gun on the M1 Abrams. I also trained with the new 120mm Main gun for the M1A1. After 50+ years of being around guns, I still enjoy them and respect them. I go to the range 1-2 times a week to shoot and keep myself sharp for accuracy. I recently completed all the requirements for a Concealed Carry Permit and now legally carry a Handgun daily for my self protection. I hope that I never have to use it, yet I believe that my "Rights" under the 2nd Amendment provide me with the tools to provide self protection should it be required. I'll say this as well, the "Older" I become, the more I realize that in today environment the more I need to trust myself to provide self protection. I am trained, I practice, I will protect myself and my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's so we don't have to celebrate queen's birthday. For me a better question might be, with barely a whimper, how could anyone allow their government take away their right to bear arms? Sad, really. But since RA has banned political discussions I'll stop right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunburyist Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 On a related note but slightly of topic (apologies), my Pop passed away last week. He did his time in the army during WWII (British 9th division) and reflecting on his life I thank him for his sacrifice (8yrs of his youth) and those of his generation. Also, thanks to those serviceman and woman doing the same right now. Just thought I'd share... RIP soldier. As far as gun laws in the States go...not sure. from an outsiders point of view, I think civilians should have access to guns. The way I'd tailor it would be for hunting use only - rifles which can always be turned to home defence. Just don't see the need (or even understand how it's possible) for regular joes to be able to walk into a shop and buy semi-auto weapons and armour-piercing munitions. Just seems crazy from the outside. You get weapons for hunting, and you get weapons for combat. In the US it seems civilians can access both. Especially if you consider when these laws were created (late 1700s?) - doubt they had visions of guys walking around with high cailbre semi-autos with high capacity mags. As with almost everything in life, the middle ground is normally the best choice. But hey - your country, your call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunburyist Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 It's so we don't have to celebrate queen's birthday.For me a better question might be, with barely a whimper, how could anyone allow their government take away their right to bear arms? Sad, really. But since RA has banned political discussions I'll stop right there. I didn't realise...is that why that Nobel Peace prize thread got deleted the other day? Shocking repression of free speech and civil liberty. Almost as shocking as finding out you don't celebrate the Queen's birthday....see now this is why we evicted you guys from the family in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrink Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Conclusion: "The US should pull out of Washington." I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuns Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think the restriction of political discussions here is related to their propensity to become name-calling poop-hurling kindergarten arguments. This discussion has been great and civil - as it should be. Who knew - a discussion about GUNS is more civil than a discussion about the Nobel PEACE prize... Some of my random thoughts on guns - The second amendment, regardless of its intent at inception, is still in place today and represents another of the many freedoms we are lucky to have here in the US. I cherish the opportunity to take advantage of the rights I have. Gun Laws only do harm to law-abiding people. Criminals are criminals - they break the law. You tell them not to steal, they steal. You tell them not to carry a gun, guess what? The only people put in jeopardy by stricter (or any, for that matter) gun control laws are the ones that actually respect the law - even if they disagree with it. Our police departments are set up to police and serve the GENERAL PUBLIC. They do not have a specific obligation to protect the individual. This ultimately leaves the individual with the obligation. I'd like to have a gun to protect myself, God forbid my family or myself are put in harm's way. My pocket knife probably won't get me too far. (please don't respond with - "you shouldn't go places that are dangerous". to quote Al Pacino from "Heat" - "you can get killed walkin' your doggie!!!" A movie, yes I know. But the line is appropriate) I agree with Tampa's comments. Guns are a great hobby. Going to the range, shooting targets, hunting, all things I love to do. A gun only becomes dangerous the second you stop RESPECTING it. Guns don't kill people. Irresponsible/careless people with guns kill people. Also, Tampa, glad to hear you are able to get a CCW permit. A fine example of going about it the right way. Here in Cali, a "may issue" state, its nearly impossible unless you have what would be considered "good cause". In LA, definitely impossible. Ellery - too bad you don't live on the left coast. I'd love to have you come along with me to the range sometime (outdoor one, so we can smoke!) to give you the opportunity of holding/shooting a gun. Perhaps your opinion would change if you had the personal experience. Open invite to you or anyone else curious about/interested in shooting. Dicko - thank you for your grandfather's service. Tampa - thank you for your service. All others in armed forces or with loved ones/friends in armed forces - thank you. Enjoy your smokes (and your guns!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 This discussion has been great and civil They all start out that way........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anacostiakat Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. Eh! I am in the kill zone!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler4178 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 My understanding, for what it is worth, is all are born with inalienable right to life, liberty, and property. Legitimate government exists to protect those rights. But as the Founding Fathers were well aware, governments often fail in that regard, often being the first to breach. A well armed citizenry prevents such transgressions, or at least makes them less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I would love political duscussions on FOH but it won't happen until the concept of open debate on issues without personal attack.....is universely adopted. I try a political post every 6 months or so. Smithy and I take a bet to see how long they last. I can't remember any lasting a day .....quite sad really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellery Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I would love political duscussions on FOH but it won't happen until the concept of open debate on issues without personal attack.....is universely adopted. I try a political post every 6 months or so. Smithy and I take a bet to see how long they last. I can't remember any lasting a day .....quite sad really Lets just stick to cigars...Had a Boli BF today, and it was excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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