Who said NCs were shit?

[Kangaroo495]

I feel like having a ramble. Hope it spikes up a conversation.

I was an NC-only smoker until I switched to Cubans about 2 years ago. My g/f gifted me a desktop humidor full of cigars last year for my birthday. Considering yesterday was my b'day, I decided to smoke one of the cigars she gave me last year with the humi.

Funnily enough, the only one left was the NC - an Oliva V Piramide.

At the risk of boasting about an NC on a Cuban cigar forum, I would like to simply say that the cigar was brilliant.

But I've come to the realization the Cubans and NCs are two vastly different products - the only thing which unites them is the word "CIGAR". And a comparison of the two is not only unfair, but virtually impossible.

The huge NC range of cigars has tended to disappoint me over the last couple of years. Having tried tens of different brands, ranigng from Fuente to Perdomo to CAO etc etc etc, I came to the conclusion that NCs are crap. But I was very wrong!

They're just vastly different. The taste, the draw, the burn, the presentation, the effects of aging. It is a product which does not appeal to me greatly. However, if I didn't have access to Cubans, and had to smoke NCs for the rest of my life, I would definitely not be upset by that.

The Cuban product is something more real for me. When I smoke a Cuban, I feel like I'm smoking a part of history, a part of the Cuban soil, a part of the sweat from the rollers hand. Regardless of the burn or the construction, I've realized that 50% of the pleasure I get from smoking, comes from the story behind the cigar.

The NC on the other hand is something intangible for me. A top quality product, but a product, none the less, of capitalism - the need to appeal to the customer, be competitive etc.. I don't feel as though I'm smoking the spirit and history, therefore my smoking experience is somewhat lessened.

Both products - the CC and the NC - are an acquired taste. The pleasure I got from the Oliva yesterday was no less than the pleasure I would get from the Monte 2 which I'll smoke tonight. But the "experience" for me was confusing. I didn't understand what I was smoking and why.

From now on, I'm going to be much more forgiving to NC smokers, and will not put **** on NCs (as much).

Each to their own!

(But long live the CC)

[yossie]

who said? jimmy2 XD

[Tampa1257]

Well you chose a good NC. The Oliva V series is a damn good line of NC's. Yet there are plenty of NC's that are just pure crap. Personally, I enjoy the Nicaraguan tobacco Puro such as Padron. There are also several Fuente cigars that I usually always keep in the humidor.

You are very correct that NC's are very different creatures from Cuban cigars and I prefer smoking a Cuban cigar 99.9% of the time.

[laficion]

Hi Kangaroo495,

Before I start, I hope that I'm not too late to wish you a Happy Birthday and I

hope that you had a great time.

Now, to get back to this matter about NC's & CC's.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, It's about time that the NC makers & brands grow up

a little before the end of the embargo, (which I don't see for the near future), and stop

compareing what is not compareable. It has now been, close to 50 years that they're saying

that the cuban cigar is crap ever since they left the Island and that It's far from being

the best cigar in the world. The soil is used up and, as a certain brand says," the cigars are

made by angry communists" but also that we are just smoking a Cuban myth. Etc, Etc, So,

why is it that they're always playing the same song, "These cigars are made by cuban rollers,

with cuban seeds, in a cuban style, with a cuban taste, Habano 2000 tobacco, grown on soil

that resembles the Vuelta Abajo, Etc, Etc, They have misinformed & miseducated the American

cigar smokers for 50 years. They refuse to admitt that only 10% of the cigar smokers in the

world, smoke NC's and that's mainly in the USA. I have smoked quit a few NC's in the many years

of cigar smoking, some are very good, few are excellent but, that's a question of taste.

These Brands , IMHO, have no respect for the countries where they grow their tobacco, or else

why don't they advertise the difference, why can't they do honor to the cigar families who have

always grown the best tobaccos in Nicaragua, or Honduras or the DR, and who also have a HISTORY

and traditions, who also have a soil for making tobacco and have been doing just that since the

Mayas & the Incas. Why don't they stop the BS about having a cuban heritage. The new

generations have their history & their heritage in those countries, NOT IN CUBA, so,

why not talk about those lands and the people, why don't they talk about the the difference

in the tobacco and what makes it different from the cuban, why don't they talk about the different

tastes and nuances in those tobaccos that are also unique to their soil. It's about time that NC

Brands grow up and stop the BS that they have been dishing out to the US Market, the Cuban cigar,

to which they refer to, has been lost 50 years ago, It's about time that they talk about the land

and the people where they have been for the last 50 years and also about the tobacco they are

growing there, not about a streotype image of themselves, or are they still trying to fool the

American cigar smoker ?

Cheers

[Stalebread]

Coincidentally, I had a Serie V torpedo this morning and I agree with your "brilliant". Plus I got this cigar in October of '07 so a couple of years really smoothed out the edges. Earlier in the week I had a Padron '64 -- also with a couple of years on it -- that was a very rich, flavorful cigar.

Also this week (it's been a busy cigar week for me) I had a Ramon Allones Phoenicios that was an excellent, excellent smoke. On the other hand, I had a Jose L Piedra Cremas yesterday (my first ever JLP). This is one Cuban cigar that just did not suit my taste.

Right, the two -- Cubans and non-Cubans -- can't be compared but each can be experienced and enjoyed (or not) for what it is.

In addition to Oliva, Padron and Fuente cigars, some of the other smaller brands like Tatuaje (I believe even ardent Habanos-philes on this very board have enjoyed a Tat Black) and Illusione are producing some outstanding cigars. To be experienced and enjoyed (or not) for what they are without making that comparison.

Vive la différence! (did I spell that right, Guy?)

[Stalebread]

I see you slipped in there just a bit ahead of me, Guy.

In large part I agree with what you're saying.

It seems to me that non-Cuban producers gain nothing from saying their cigar is "Cubanesque".

Make the best Nicaraguan or Dominican cigar you can make, be proud of it for what it is and let it go at that.

[Ellery]

I've been smoking NC for the last 5yrs or so, and just started with cubans in the last 6 mths. I agree, they are both good, but different. I've noticed more complexity in flavors with the cubans. In the NC's there is a constant flavor profile that doesn't change throughout the entire smoke. Like everyone is saying...not good, not bad...just different. But I've heard other NC smokers tell me that Cubans are crap because of the embargo etc. and when I ask them which cubans they have smoked, they say none. I say don't knock it till you've tried it.

[tigger]

I think in general, Habanos tend toward more complex flavor, and body/strength/balance profiles that I prefer.

That said, an Ashton VSG Illusion with 3+ years on it is a thing of beauty, and one of the five best cigars I've ever smoked was a Cameroon-wrapped Dominican.

[Rogers72]

I enjoy a good NC from time to time. I just buy the occasional single to help out the local shops around here. I much prefer MOST Cuban Cigars but I can appreciate NC for what they are. I also really like the Oliva V line for a good no-nonsense smoke. the piramide and lancero are my two faves. I have found that, if i'm buying NC's, they are almost always Nicaraguan puros. I've never tried aging any more than a couple of months but may give it a shot.

[thechenman]

I've only been smoking Cuban cigars since the start of 2009 thanks to Lise and Czar. Prior to that I was a smoker of Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars. I agree with Kanga in that they are different, but both have their strong points. My taste in cigars has definitely moved toward those of Cuba, but I still have DR and NC humidor. I continue to be a big fan of Padron, Fuente's Opus X and Pete Johnson's Tatuaje. All great cigars in my opinion, even though they taste nothing like Cuban cigars. They offer me something different and a change of pace. I admit, from time to time, I will try other non-Cuban cigars just to sample what is going on out there in the cigar world. There is a lot of innovation, and really some pretty decent products coming from a variety of manufacturers. However, Guy is right...they do need to stop comparing themselves to Cuban cigars...create a market of their own. One thing I think that most of the non-Cubans do better is quality control. Yes, you get bad construction from time to time, no matter what. Afterall, this is a handmade product. However, I have far fewer construction issues with by DR and NC cigars. That's just my own experience though.

[mikejh]

oliva v is one of my favorites, also the ashton vsg, padron 1964, tatuajes, i dont think anyone could say these arent good

the best cigar ive ever had was a vsg belicoso 1 with 2 years on it, tasted nothing like a cuban, but it was excellent, near perfect IMO

[scinmyheart]

in their own right, I feel that there are some good...and a few, very good...non-Cuban cigars nowadays...but like all have said, they're just different and it's not a fair comparasion. it would be nice if the Cubans could follow in the footsteps construction wise like the NCs...but I'll still take a Cuban anyday

[PigFish]

I suppose it is impossible to separate politics and emotions anytime one says the name Cuba. Love, hate, sadness, pride... death, loss... future and hope will all come to mind depending on those of whom you say the name. Being an opinionated political animal some of my emotions have been outlined above.

I am not here to argue politics, although sometimes I do... I am here to rejoice in the fruits of the Cuban cigar. To share a cigar with friends is a uniting experience. Even a spirited controversial debate between rivals is somehow more gentlemanly, more diplomatic over a fine Havana cigar. That is the power of the cigar.

Cigars are transcendent of the body politic. They represent toil and care, trial and error, success and heritage. They are the embodiment of nature and mans effect on nature to produce a product for the sole purpose of hedonistic luxury. Cuban cigars are the bellwether of the world's cigar marketplace.

As stated there are likely many reasons that cigars are different. I have, like the cigar itself, transcended the need to know the reasons. I have seen the light! I have experienced the "moment of clarity." Many here bask in the same light.

As long as I can cross the finish line first I will continue to do so. I don't need to know what it feels like to be second... Life deals me a hand which has me a mere follower in the cue everyday. I say why compromise on my cigar? As long as the Cuban cigar is priced affordably for me, a common man seeking extraordinary pleasure, I will smoke only Cuban cigars.

Cheers, Piggy

[Punch Joe]

Bonjour Guy

First of all, I would like to remind everybody that we are a cigar family no matter where we are. We speak tobacco, we have the passion inside, we understand how we feel. Once the tobacco bug is inside of you, you can´t put it away. It will be your partner forever.

I have tried some NC´s over the past 7 years..They are simply different. They have something to offer depending on your mood, the day you are having, the occasion, let´s call it a cigar to fit the occasion and that appeal to every origin. Some prefer a mild cigar in the morning, nothing to say against those who rather go for a jolt first thing in the morning. It´s a matter of likings and on that field it´s almost impossible to argue or reach a plain conclusion.

Some NC´s deliver a good performance but to my taste I pretty much like Nicaraguans vs Dominicans. In this specific liking I would like to mention Padrón.

Regarding the fact that they claim (vuelta abajo, similar in taste to CC´s..etc) it´s easy to comprehend why they don´t refuse (and probably never will) the Cuban Heritage for whatever reason. Maybe because most of them were born here (or came to see first hand) and they are permeated with the pride that identifies the cuban vegueros. No one here abhors NC´s, after all we are a cigar family and pray God to keep us that way. I know and understand how they think, furthermore what they do...it´s not that difficult to understand it if tobacco is running through your veins. The painstaking labour of the roller or growers are amazing everywhere. We are blessed in many things, but the passion for the leaf, the pride of the grower, the joy of the crop is in the eye of the tobacco men every single day of his life. Here and there. With their own hands. That´s what makes this a heavenly pleasure.

I agree with Guy there. Maybe it´s time for them to build their own history regardless if it´s based in Cuban rollers that decided to go overseas, or families that owned fields here, probably it is a background that they won´t put aside simply because they are proud of it.

The Cubans, if determined to do something, they achieve great results.

A bientót Punch Joe

[Punch Joe]

Bonjour Guy

First of all, I would like to remind everybody that we are a cigar family no matter where we are. We speak tobacco, we have the passion inside, we understand how we feel. Once the tobacco bug is inside of you, you can´t put it away. It will be your partner forever.

I have tried some NC´s over the past 7 years..They are simply different. They have something to offer depending on your mood, the day you are having, the occasion, let´s call it a cigar to fit the occasion and that appeal to every origin. Some prefer a mild cigar in the morning, nothing to say against those who rather go for a jolt first thing in the morning. It´s a matter of likings and on that field it´s almost impossible to argue or reach a plain conclusion.

Some NC´s deliver a good performance but to my taste I pretty much like Nicaraguans vs Dominicans. In this specific liking I would like to mention Padrón.

Regarding the fact that they claim (vuelta abajo, similar in taste to CC´s..etc) it´s easy to comprehend why they don´t refuse (and probably never will) the Cuban Heritage for whatever reason. Maybe because most of them were born here (or came to see first hand) and they are permeated with the pride that identifies the cuban vegueros. No one here abhors NC´s, after all we are a cigar family and pray God to keep us that way. I know and understand how they think, furthermore what they do...it´s not that difficult to understand it if tobacco is running through your veins. The painstaking labour of the roller or growers are amazing everywhere. We are blessed in many things, but the passion for the leaf, the pride of the grower, the joy of the crop is in the eye of the tobacco men every single day of his life. Here and there. With their own hands. That´s what makes this a heavenly pleasure.

I agree with Guy there. Maybe it´s time for them to build their own history regardless if it´s based in Cuban rollers that decided to go overseas, or families that owned fields here, probably it is a background that they won´t put aside simply because they are proud of it.

The Cubans, if determined to do something, they achieve great results.

A bientót Punch Joe

[strayvector]

It's like food. If it ain't from China, grown in China, and cooked by Chinese, it sucks.

[PigFish]

Great posts gentlemen! -P

[mash]

I'm just finishing off a Padron '26 #9, and it is a full-bodied, tasty cigar.

I've smoked hundreds of Padrons, and never had one that wasn't perfectly constructed. A while ago, I was smoking a Padron 80th Anni, had to rush off to the gas station to fill up before they closed. I left it burning, came back 15 minutes later, and it was still going.

I smoke 90%+ Cubans, but these are a nice change of pace.

The OP talks about the NC brands as being capitalistic and commercialized. That's true, but given how many RE's and LE's are coming out of Cuba these days, and considering their prices, I think Cuba understands capitalism pretty well too.

[Jimmy2]

I will say nothing more ...

[Stalebread]

. . .

They refuse to admitt that only 10% of the cigar smokers in the

world, smoke NC's and that's mainly in the USA.

. . .

Guy, do you have the source for this 10% number?

Does it include all cigar smokers or just smokers of premium cigars?

K

[tigger]

"A top quality product, but a product, none the less, of capitalism - the need to appeal to the customer, be competitive etc.."

I would submit that Habanos production and marketing is driven by the very same things these days. Altadis isn't in business for fun - they exist to make money.

Some of Hsa's machinations leave me shaking my head and a little sad, but without some "capitalism" in the mix, it seems likely to me that the Cuban cigar industry would have collapsed from lack of capital and poor practices in the late 90's/early part of this decade.

[laficion]

Guy, do you have the source for this 10% number?

Does it include all cigar smokers or just smokers of premium cigars?

K

Hi stalebread,

Here are a few answers & interesting reading to your question.

After you've read the numbers & the percentages,

take into account the cuban cigars that are sold in

the US, ( real, not fakes ), in value, you come to a world total ,

you'll see that the NC's still have work to do.

Here are a few links:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19046572/Cuban-Cigar-Industry

http://www.inlumino.com.au/inlumino1/The%2...an%20cigars.pdf

http://cnbceb.com/tobacco/habanos-people/36/

[Stalebread]

Wow! Thanks for the links.

I'll take a look at them Sunday.

Or maybe this evening.

[gsmoke]

I am far from a seasoned CC smoker by any means, and really still a newb when it comes to the NCs. Still thought I'd add into this great conversation the fact that there are a few NC producers that seem very proud of their particular heritage. La Aurora comes to mind. Perhaps that's the only one, but seemed worth bringing up.

[thechenman]

I am far from a seasoned CC smoker by any means, and really still a newb when it comes to the NCs. Still thought I'd add into this great conversation the fact that there are a few NC producers that seem very proud of their particular heritage. La Aurora comes to mind. Perhaps that's the only one, but seemed worth bringing up.

gsmoke...

I get your meaning, but FYI La Aurora is based in the Dominican Republic.