Who said NCs were shit?

[tigger]

Boo Friggin Hiss, Staple your lips together and Pray this NEVER happens!!!!

How I'ma gonna pray with my lips stapled together?

All four men, whether or not you like to smoke their cigars, are very good at what they do.

Upmann and Bolivar would still be the staples in my humidor, but there's nothing I can see wrong with people who know how to construct cigars as well as they do using the world's finest tobacco in their efforts.

[aavkk]

Boo Friggin Hiss, Staple your lips together and Pray this NEVER happens!!!!

Chuck I am going to have to strongly and respectfully disagree with your stance on this subject. These men have arguably created the very best product possible based on the raw materials they have to work with. I'll use the Padron family as an example because I know their product better. They have created several distinct and interesting blends from the same nicaraguan farm each of which sells like hotcakes and many agree is the best to come out of Nicaragua. I for one also feel that they set the standard for construction quality and quality control in general. It would be amazing to see Jose Padron with a farm in Cuba and bringing that same level of quality control coupled with the best raw materials in the world. Sure it would take 5-8 years for him to get started and age the tobacco to his standards and another year or two to get the blends to his liking but I'll definitely be an interested observer and no doubt something unique. Finally, I think that if this does happen than HSA as we know it will have to step up their game to compete on the open market. I see this is a positive all around.

[Stalebread]

. . .

You guys can pull out all the samples that you want but they are flukes. Yeah I said it. Mistakes!

. . .

Just because you say it is so does not make it so.

Nuf said.

[Colt45]

I've mentioned before that I fully realize that there are people in the Cuban cigar industry who I'm sure could do great things if given the chance

to break out on their own. But the one outsider, if we can call him that, I'd like to see have a chance with Cuban tobacco would be Hendrik Kelner.

(to quote Punch Joe - "I would like to remind everybody that we are a cigar family no matter where we are")

[Padrino]

(to quote Punch Joe - "I would like to remind everybody that we are a cigar family no matter where we are")

I guess that's why they say you can choose your friends but you can't choose family.

[cigarros]

Hey! Roger! Word spoken is past recalling)) You're itself has asked about it. Is answers were satisfactory? If ask me what better I would answer that I smoke only Cuba. Non-cuban cigars? Whatta mazakafaka?!))) All roads lead to Rome!

[audio1der]

I feel like having a ramble. Hope it spikes up a conversation.

I was an NC-only smoker until I switched to Cubans about 2 years ago. My g/f gifted me a desktop humidor full of cigars last year for my birthday. Considering yesterday was my b'day, I decided to smoke one of the cigars she gave me last year with the humi.

Funnily enough, the only one left was the NC - an Oliva V Piramide.

At the risk of boasting about an NC on a Cuban cigar forum, I would like to simply say that the cigar was brilliant.

But I've come to the realization the Cubans and NCs are two vastly different products - the only thing which unites them is the word "CIGAR". And a comparison of the two is not only unfair, but virtually impossible.

The huge NC range of cigars has tended to disappoint me over the last couple of years. Having tried tens of different brands, ranigng from Fuente to Perdomo to CAO etc etc etc, I came to the conclusion that NCs are crap. But I was very wrong!

They're just vastly different. The taste, the draw, the burn, the presentation, the effects of aging. It is a product which does not appeal to me greatly. However, if I didn't have access to Cubans, and had to smoke NCs for the rest of my life, I would definitely not be upset by that.

The Cuban product is something more real for me. When I smoke a Cuban, I feel like I'm smoking a part of history, a part of the Cuban soil, a part of the sweat from the rollers hand. Regardless of the burn or the construction, I've realized that 50% of the pleasure I get from smoking, comes from the story behind the cigar.

The NC on the other hand is something intangible for me. A top quality product, but a product, none the less, of capitalism - the need to appeal to the customer, be competitive etc.. I don't feel as though I'm smoking the spirit and history, therefore my smoking experience is somewhat lessened.

Both products - the CC and the NC - are an acquired taste. The pleasure I got from the Oliva yesterday was no less than the pleasure I would get from the Monte 2 which I'll smoke tonight. But the "experience" for me was confusing. I didn't understand what I was smoking and why.

From now on, I'm going to be much more forgiving to NC smokers, and will not put **** on NCs (as much).

Each to their own!

(But long live the CC)

I don't care for the taste of anything without that "twang", and so they represent poor value for me. I take the same (tax & duty) risk ordering NCs as opposed to Cubans, so it's a no-brainer for me, but smoke what you like. I still have 6 NCs which have been gifted to me over the years, and I'll get to them eventually.

[jquest63]

It seems the question should be who hasn't said NC's were ****. As most seasoned cigars smokers I've run into who've smoked both agree that CC are superior to NC's.

[Canadian]

Hi Kangaroo495,

Before I start, I hope that I'm not too late to wish you a Happy Birthday and I

hope that you had a great time.

Now, to get back to this matter about NC's & CC's.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, It's about time that the NC makers & brands grow up

a little before the end of the embargo, (which I don't see for the near future), and stop

compareing what is not compareable. It has now been, close to 50 years that they're saying

that the cuban cigar is crap ever since they left the Island and that It's far from being

the best cigar in the world. The soil is used up and, as a certain brand says," the cigars are

made by angry communists" but also that we are just smoking a Cuban myth. Etc, Etc, So,

why is it that they're always playing the same song, "These cigars are made by cuban rollers,

with cuban seeds, in a cuban style, with a cuban taste, Habano 2000 tobacco, grown on soil

that resembles the Vuelta Abajo, Etc, Etc, They have misinformed & miseducated the American

cigar smokers for 50 years. They refuse to admitt that only 10% of the cigar smokers in the

world, smoke NC's and that's mainly in the USA. I have smoked quit a few NC's in the many years

of cigar smoking, some are very good, few are excellent but, that's a question of taste.

These Brands , IMHO, have no respect for the countries where they grow their tobacco, or else

why don't they advertise the difference, why can't they do honor to the cigar families who have

always grown the best tobaccos in Nicaragua, or Honduras or the DR, and who also have a HISTORY

and traditions, who also have a soil for making tobacco and have been doing just that since the

Mayas & the Incas. Why don't they stop the BS about having a cuban heritage. The new

generations have their history & their heritage in those countries, NOT IN CUBA, so,

why not talk about those lands and the people, why don't they talk about the the difference

in the tobacco and what makes it different from the cuban, why don't they talk about the different

tastes and nuances in those tobaccos that are also unique to their soil. It's about time that NC

Brands grow up and stop the BS that they have been dishing out to the US Market, the Cuban cigar,

to which they refer to, has been lost 50 years ago, It's about time that they talk about the land

and the people where they have been for the last 50 years and also about the tobacco they are

growing there, not about a streotype image of themselves, or are they still trying to fool the

American cigar smoker ?

Cheers

This could not be more true. The marketing strategy of reproducing a cuban only defines their product as an inferior product, simply an attempt at a reproduction. I would be far more inclined to purchase and experiment with NC's if they were to take the approach of a competitive product with it's own individual history. Excellent insight and point.

[tucomapache]

I feel that most of the NC's I have smoked are strong, bitter and lack complexity. Too much of the tobacco seems way too young and the trend appears to be to make strong cigars only, not my style...

For me the regular production CC's have given me more smoking pleasure...

Joe

[Punch Joe]

I for one also feel that they set the standard for construction quality and quality control in general. It would be amazing to see Jose Padron with a farm in Cuba and bringing that same level of quality control coupled with the best raw materials in the world. Sure it would take 5-8 years for him to get started and age the tobacco to his standards and another year or two to get the blends to his liking but I'll definitely be an interested observer and no doubt something unique. Finally, I think that if this does happen than HSA as we know it will have to step up their game to compete on the open market. I see this is a positive all around.

Regarding José Orlando Padrón, he used to own a great farm near Piloto, in Pinar del Río province. Still you can find friends and a few relatives that remembers him very well which has always surprised me. Hats off

On a side note: Kelner grabbing hands on Cuban leaf to play with. We could fantasize with the idea as long as we want. Why, not letting others here to do so? that´s the issue. I think we could envision a futre where we can work together in the curing and sorting of the leaves because there so much experience in both worlds we could take advantage from in creating a wonderful dream blend. Why not?

The outcome could be dissapointing in one step but we could go forward until we overcome. Anyway, it´s the trying process that should be interesting to see and learn from it. I doubt that somebody could come and tell the tobacco people they are doing all wrong. Instead, they will try to learn from the ones here that are heirs to the Cuban tradition of not rushing things when it comes to growing and fermenting and aging.

[samb]

As having been a NC smoker the majority of my smoking life, and my experience with the few CCs ive had the pleasure of having, i can honestly say that its hard for me to chose completely. While i completely enjoy the CC experience, my roots lie in NCs and there are many NCs on the market that are very delicious. However, after finding this site, my days of NC smoking are probably numbered.

[SamuraiJack]

I have dabbled in some of my favorite NCs again lately, Opus No.4, Padron 1964, Hemingway Maduro Classic, even a God Of Fire. Still good smokes, but honestly boring compared to a spot on SLR Regios or Mag46 or CoRo, etc. Yea, its complexity, but also just plain depth of flavor. maybe thats the same thing...

I am completely done with the general medium level premium NCs, $5-$10 range stuff. There are none out there that I would take over a $5 CC, ever. In fact, I get more and more annoyed with what some NC producers get away with in that price range, some truly awful stuff imo. All marketing if you ask me. I always hear about some new great NC, try it, and am completely mind boggled as to how anyone could think it was even decent! I can't get on the Tat band wagon. Some Don Peps are solid, but boring and crude.

So, I am converted I guess.

[Habanos2000]

To me the problem lies with the incosistent performance of the CC. While NC's can't stand up to a CC that is on it's game, NC's seem to me to be much more consistent on regular basis. Even if that's a not too exciting consistency, if that makes sense.

[Colt45]

........ but also just plain depth of flavor.

For me personally this, generally speaking, is the biggest difference between NCs and Havanas. That sense of depth and flavor from the core

on out to the perimeter. A characteristic I've rarely found in NCs, and then it's almost always the exception.

[frenchkiwi]

These Brands , IMHO, have no respect for the countries where they grow their tobacco, or else

why don't they advertise the difference, why can't they do honor to the cigar families who have

always grown the best tobaccos in Nicaragua, or Honduras or the DR, and who also have a HISTORY

and traditions, who also have a soil for making tobacco and have been doing just that since the

Mayas & the Incas. Why don't they stop the BS about having a cuban heritage. The new

generations have their history & their heritage in those countries, NOT IN CUBA, so,

why not talk about those lands and the people, why don't they talk about the the difference

in the tobacco and what makes it different from the cuban, why don't they talk about the different

tastes and nuances in those tobaccos that are also unique to their soil.

I agree.

Terroir - a meaningful french concept that NC manufacturers (as well as a new generation of consumers) need to be educated in ;-)

[MIKA27]

Yossie-

I do smoke a pipe on occasion - usually in the autumn and winter, as they don't suffer from some of issues that cigars can in colder, dryer air.

Our opinions differ on pipe vs. cigar. I have yet to find a pipe tobacco that is as complex as, or evolves in the way that, most of the cigars I enjoy do.

Pipes are very enjoyable, but different to me - not unlike the difference between most Cuban and Noncuban cigars.

I often enjoy a pipe and smoke Stanwell Melange tobacco which is quite smooth, aromatic and sweet.

Whilst smoking a pipe is completely different from a Cigar and alot more work and effort is involved, I too find that flavour can not compare to a CC or even an NC.

I often visit a good friend of mine who ONLY smokes a pipe. He enjoys the effort involved.

On entering his home, the smell is fantastic, alluring and exciting but I find that, and this is just my opinion, generally the smell of pipe tobacco is fantastic but the flavour is not that great, whereas, some poeple often say the smell of a cigar is not as 'inviting' as a pipe, BUt the flavour is overwhelmingly complex, rich and rewarding.

I primarily smoke CC's with the NC exception being a Padron on occasion such as the #35 or the Padron 1926 Serie 40th Anniversary Natural Torpedo which I quite enjoy. The problem with NC's also is the price. Way to high!

[almudawi]

I see the light ! I am new to the cigar hobby, almost a year now and have tried both.

In Bahrain we only get Cuban Cigars, so my roots are strictly Cuban but due to being a novice I got caught in Cigar Aficionado reports/reviews and fancied trying the Fantastic NC according to CA. I am a regular at another Cigar forum and have been gifted and bought a huge number of NCs. I've been caught in my NC dream, or so I've thought for a good 4 months, just for me to open my Cuban humi and reach for a Cohiba Siglo III and SNAP ! That was it ! I remembered why I got into cigars the first place. Cuban Cigars cannot be beat ! Don't get me wrong I enjoy NCs but CC experience cannot be mimicked or replicated no matter how good NCs are. Saying that, I'll still keep a humi for NCs, Padron anversarios, Oliva Vs, Don Pepin Blue labels and Tatuajes because they are still worthy of a place in my collection.

Oh, one more thing ! Just bought a 200 stick humi for the Cubans. The affect of the good Siglo, I guess

[thechenman]

I see the light ! I am new to the cigar hobby, almost a year now and have tried both.

In Bahrain we only get Cuban Cigars, so my roots are strictly Cuban but due to being a novice I got caught in Cigar Aficionado reports/reviews and fancied trying the Fantastic NC according to CA. I am a regular at another Cigar forum and have been gifted and bought a huge number of NCs. I've been caught in my NC dream, or so I've thought for a good 4 months, just for me to open my Cuban humi and reach for a Cohiba Siglo III and SNAP ! That was it ! I remembered why I got into cigars the first place. Cuban Cigars cannot be beat ! Don't get me wrong I enjoy NCs but CC experience cannot be mimicked or replicated no matter how good NCs are. Saying that, I'll still keep a humi for NCs, Padron anversarios, Oliva Vs, Don Pepin Blue labels and Tatuajes because they are still worthy of a place in my collection.

Oh, one more thing ! Just bought a 200 stick humi for the Cubans. The affect of the good Siglo, I guess

I agree with you, and like you I still feel there is room in my humidor for both...it just happens that the CCs far outnumber my cigars from other countries... No big surprise there...

[BobLobLaw]

case in point, Casa Magna, seriously a 95, I think that reviewer was dislexic, but they had already printed the rag, and had to stick to it.

Interesting thread. I am newer to CC and still working my way around them. I have smoked many of the regular CC as well as many of the super premiums (RE, LE etc). I mostly buy CC and am slowly phasing NC out of the humi. Mostly because of the price involved. Taxes are just too great.

Anyway, The best cigar I had this year was NOT a cc and in fact was the Casa Magna Robusto. After the CA article came out I bought 2. Smoked one right away and it was horrible, bitter, bland, just bleh. Found the other one 6 months later as I was headed to the golf course. Figured why not. WOW! It went from caramel sweetness to a nice cedar to a bit of spice over and over and over. I have since bought a few more and will be looking for a box to lay down for the winter. Rumor is that after CA they were in high demand and shipped wet. Seriously, pick one up for the $5 and forget about it for the better part of a year. I would be surprised if you did not enjoy it immensely or at the very least found it to be a great value.

[thechenman]

Interesting thread. I am newer to CC and still working my way around them. I have smoked many of the regular CC as well as many of the super premiums (RE, LE etc). I mostly buy CC and am slowly phasing NC out of the humi. Mostly because of the price involved. Taxes are just too great.

Anyway, The best cigar I had this year was NOT a cc and in fact was the Casa Magna Robusto. After the CA article came out I bought 2. Smoked one right away and it was horrible, bitter, bland, just bleh. Found the other one 6 months later as I was headed to the golf course. Figured why not. WOW! It went from caramel sweetness to a nice cedar to a bit of spice over and over and over. I have since bought a few more and will be looking for a box to lay down for the winter. Rumor is that after CA they were in high demand and shipped wet. Seriously, pick one up for the $5 and forget about it for the better part of a year. I would be surprised if you did not enjoy it immensely or at the very least found it to be a great value.

I've trie a few of these recently, and thought they were total dog rockets. Burn and draw issues even after dry boxing. I didn't really think that tasted all that...no complexity. I essentially thought they were overrated; however, that is just my take as they seem to be very popular at one my local B&Ms.

[aavkk]

Currently sitting down enjoying arguably one of the most complex CC's out there, an LGC Medaille #1 from 02. How can I possibly be tasting so many flavors right now... It's got an alluring quality spice to it but also very very bright flavors that I describe as fresh tropical fruit along with leather and such changes and development along the way. Sorry for the run on sentence but dammit this cigar deserves it. It embodies just about everything that I love about habanos. Sure it's rough to look at but theres nothing better than handing this cigar to someone who is new to habanos and watch their eyes light up from the very first puff. I don't think it's accurate to say NC's are **** but you try to compare the depth of flavor, the complexity and the development of this cigar to any NC and that NC falls flat on it's face.

[BobLobLaw]

I've trie a few of these recently, and thought they were total dog rockets. Burn and draw issues even after dry boxing. I didn't really think that tasted all that...no complexity. I essentially thought they were overrated; however, that is just my take as they seem to be very popular at one my local B&Ms.

That is exactly how my first one was. I stand by my 6 month to a year statement. Course that is based on one sample. I am in the process of "aging" a few more. Maybe I just got the one gem of the bunch from the same batch CA had. Again, if they are that bad it should not be hard to leave em for awhile.

[BobLobLaw]

Currently sitting down enjoying arguably one of the most complex CC's out there, an LGC Medaille #1 from 02. How can I possibly be tasting so many flavors right now... It's got an alluring quality spice to it but also very very bright flavors that I describe as fresh tropical fruit along with leather and such changes and development along the way. Sorry for the run on sentence but dammit this cigar deserves it. It embodies just about everything that I love about habanos. Sure it's rough to look at but theres nothing better than handing this cigar to someone who is new to habanos and watch their eyes light up from the very first puff. I don't think it's accurate to say NC's are **** but you try to compare the depth of flavor, the complexity and the development of this cigar to any NC and that NC falls flat on it's face.

Very nice Alan! That cigar was on my short list and did not make the cut for this recent spree. Now I want some of these!

[dstokely]

hey guys, it's been a while since I posted here, but I've been reading this particular thread as it pertains to me, since I reside in the U.S. and have been smoking both CC and NC for the past two years or so. I agree with most of you here, CC generally has more complexity, it is more balanced, and richer in flavors than overwhelmingly majority of the NCs. However, right now NCs have consistently better construction than CCs, though I must say that the latest batch of 08, 09 CCs that I've had the pleasure of sampling has had great construction. The problem I have with NCs is that too many are complete crap, not crap like a bland Punch Punch that one might get, but crap like it taste so horrifyingly nasty that I can't get past he first 5 puffs. Because of cigars like these NCs are downgraded. There are some great NCs, but the list is quite short, cigars such as Padron 1926, OpusX (when they are good, consistency issues seem to be a problem for them lately), Tatuaje and Oliva V are very good cigars, they are of a complete different spectrum than CCs and shouldn't be compared. Good CCs have a spectrum of richness, flavor, and complexity that I just have not gotten from many, if any NCs. On top of that, I don't have a huge cigar budget, so the choice is easy when it comes to smoking a 90+ rated cigar. I can spend 20+ dollars on a padron 45th anniversary, or I can spend half of that and get (PSD4, RASS, PSP2, MC2, H. Upmann Mag 50, mag 40...) The choice becomes an easy one, I get NC singles because they are easier to acquire here in the states, but if I buy a box, I almost always buy a box of CCs.