Positive reinforcement for Habanos s.a.

[El Presidente]

Positive reinforcement for Habanos s.a.

We have all recently had a crack at various aspects of HSA direction. I know my own comments Re the Montecristo "Opens" (and those of Smithy, ken , Warren) have not gone down overly well.

I am a firm believer of positive reinforcement. In this thread let us post what the hell they are doing well. Give Kudos where Kudos are due keeping in mind they work under serious strain with a JV partner (Cuban Govt) which is financially under strain.

I know many good people in HSA who follow this forum and who right now could use a pat on the back

[Fuzz AI]

Positive reinforcement for Habanos s.a.

We have all recently had a crack at various aspects of HSA direction. I know my own comments Re the Montecristo "Opens" (and those of Smithy, ken , Warren) have not gone down overly well.

I am a firm believer of positive reinforcement. In this thread let us post what the hell they are doing well. Give Kudos where Kudos are due keeping in mind they work under serious strain with a JV partner (Cuban Govt) which is financially under strain.

I know many good people in HSA who follow this forum and who right now could use a pat on the back

Kudos to HSA for releasing the Cuaba Piramide EL. Finally a Cuaba that people are willing buy and smoke!

[Trevor2118]

Positive reinforcement for Habanos s.a.

I know many good people in HSA who follow this forum and who right now could use a pat on the back

Members of this forum are lovers of Cuban ciagrs and consider Cuban cigars to be the best in the world.

I believe that any critism made is based on this love, and with the honest intention of ensuring that Cuban cigars continue to be Worlds best.

You are Number One and we want you to stay there.

[smll2]

Rob,

Thanks to Habanos s.a. I have several humidors full of their terrific cigars. There are a few..Dominican/NC's that I will smoke from time to time. Habanos are now a passion and a hobby. Hands down...they are the best!!!

Tom

[Ken Gargett]

Positive reinforcement for Habanos s.a.

We have all recently had a crack at various aspects of HSA direction. I know my own comments Re the Montecristo "Opens" (and those of Smithy, ken , Warren) have not gone down overly well.

I am a firm believer of positive reinforcement. In this thread let us post what the hell they are doing well. Give Kudos where Kudos are due keeping in mind they work under serious strain with a JV partner (Cuban Govt) which is financially under strain.

I know many good people in HSA who follow this forum and who right now could use a pat on the back

ohhhh, you in that much strife? perhaps you should send the relevant member of your family (note - i have never named him) over to beat the crap out of them instead of looking to beat up on those poor individuals nearing pension age and whose only crime is to have pointed out what you said about said family member.

however, postive. right. it would be extremely positive if they never did anything as braindead as the monte opens again.

but on an actual positive note, they must know that you and myself and others, if only from the number of times we have visited and in my case, the squillions i've spent on them, are extremely strong supporters of them and what they do in general. and when we see them go off track, it hurts us and we want them to stop and get it right. if dom rep or nic or mexico or whoever else did something like this, i couldn't care less but i do care whgen it is thse guys.

and on top of that, have a look at so many terrific cigars - the winstons, the coros and so many more of late.

[perfectform]

Members of this forum are lovers of Cuban ciagrs and consider Cuban cigars to be the best in the world.

I believe that any critism made is based on this love, and with the honest intention of ensuring that Cuban cigars continue to be Worlds best.

You are Number One and we want you to stay there.

You took the words right out of my mouth Trevor...agreed 100%

[bolivr]

The resurgence of cigars like the Mag46 as an example. Kudos

Trevor is right, it is love, tough love, but love and passion in spades. HSA do make the best cigars in the world, we want them to be number one but also to try for higher heights.

When cigars are released that disappoint then this is made clear in feedback. When cigars are released that blow us away then we are also quick to provide congratulations.

[sounddust]

We call it as we see it, and I'm glad that the majority of reviews for recent productions are rather favorable.

[kilroy]

One positive thing I have to say to HSA is that you are the purveyors of the finest tobacco in the world. The thin gauge cigars that you still produce are my favorite indulgence. Keep up the good work and give me more Laguito #1 lines!

[bigfunkyg]

All this said, is there really an alternative to smoking Cuban cigars?

I don't think so.

Cuba is still #1 by a long shot.

[Colt45]

Hmmm..........

As has been mentioned already, members here love Cuban cigars. I do try to keep in mind the real people behind these great cigars.

The farmers, workers in the barns, all the tobacco handlers. The rollers, the sorters, banders, boxers, box makers. The people higher

up in the organization who understand that it's more than just a business.

But...... currently there is a monopoly on the production of Cuban cigars......

The best i can say is that when at their best, smoking a Cuban cigar can be a transcendent experience. I hope that the people in charge, who

ultimately make decisions, realize that they do have people who understand, and that they allow them to flourish.

[gostgost]

Any critism should be taken as constructive critism and nothing more. I've been smoking CC's for year and enjoy nothing more then my CC's.

[Taino]

I smoked a Montecristo Open eagle yesterday and I have to disagree with you Rob on some aspects. It is not a bad cigar, a connoseiur may consider it mediocre with an ugly label, but I believe it to be a well thought sales and marketing concept... like guantanamera. Guantanamera is a bad cigar for almost all of us but they sell well and they are cheap to produce.

The monte open is clearly created -to me- for the American market and that concept of a cigar could potentially broaden the Cuban cigar market, to more occasional smokers and be an excellent base line for new comers.

Using the Montecristo label it is not also a bad idea, it's one of the better known brands and that will lower entry barriers. If they do it well they will not cannibalize the brand either. Many wine brands for instance have their base lines, medium, high and premium lines and it's well accepted.

With this line they are trying to make business, not make cigars for the sommeliers of the cigar world. If it works, good for them!

Sales figures will have the final word. But I believe something good can come out for BT and HSA on this line.

[BobLobLaw]

Even with so many LE/RE and other "high end" products it seems that the regular production stuff from 08 is extremely well received. Off the top of my head I have heard rave reviews about the Mag 50, Mag 46, Sir Winstons, Cohiba Robustos, Monte #2, Juan Lopez #2, . . .

[Colt45]

Taino, you've made a number of points I'd comment on, but in the spirit of the thread, I'll keep my comments to myself

The one point I will comment on is producing a cigar for the "American" market. This is not the first time I've heard this, but I just don't

understand it. Are American smokers idiots, to be force fed pablum and willingly accept it? I think not, and I don't think the American smoker

should be sold short.

If we want to call it a cigar for the casual smoker world wide, that, I think, is a more reasonable assumption.

[BobLobLaw]

Dunno, there is a pretty good argument to be made that the casual American smoker is in fact dumber (in cigar knowledge) then the casual worldwide smoker. I would assume its mostly Americans buying glass top Fauxhibas in Mexico or wherever as its the forbidden fruit. Then when smoked they think they are amazing because all cubans are supposed to be. Or in the alternative they realize they are smoking crap and come to the conclusion that Cubans are not all that.

Course this is all just theory, its Friday and I am bored at work and itching to get out of here. Also this is sort of a threadjack so I will stop and if need be delete this post.

[gerem]

Members of this forum are lovers of Cuban ciagrs and consider Cuban cigars to be the best in the world.

I believe that any critism made is based on this love, and with the honest intention of ensuring that Cuban cigars continue to be Worlds best.

You are Number One and we want you to stay there.

I second that!!!

[Colt45]

Dunno, there is a pretty good argument to be made that the casual American smoker is in fact dumber (in cigar knowledge) then the casual worldwide smoker.

Course this is all just theory

I might counter with the fact that counterfeits are sold, and smoked by people who don't know any better, world-wide.

Let's look at it from another angle. There is no legal market for Cuban cigars in the U.S. Would HSA really commit a new line of cigars for

a market they don't have? Perhaps some day, but not today.

So in the spirit of this thread, and to help RA maintain the lifestyle he's become accustomed to, kudos to HSA for not creating a cigar for

a market they do not have. Bravo!

[Shelby07]

Taino, you've made a number of points I'd comment on, but in the spirit of the thread, I'll keep my comments to myself

The one point I will comment on is producing a cigar for the "American" market. This is not the first time I've heard this, but I just don't

understand it. Are American smokers idiots, to be force fed pablum and willingly accept it? I think not, and I don't think the American smoker

should be sold short.

If we want to call it a cigar for the casual smoker world wide, that, I think, is a more reasonable assumption.

I've been involved in a company recently that has done some studies on different tastes between Americans and people from India. There are tastes here in America that would turn the stomach of an average Indian, and having eaten some of the food there I dare say that some of the things they like would be spit out before they touched most lips here.

I have to admit that the taste of a Cuban cigar is an acquired one. I'm slowly coming around to the opinion that they are the best in the world, but didn't feel that way at first. As I smoked CC's that I enjoyed, the others started coming into play. For example, I didn't like the taste profile of Partagas at all when I first started, now I can't get enough.

People in different parts of the world do, in fact, have different tastes. Ever have a cup of coffee in Canada? The bitterness makes my toes curl, but the Canadians love it.

It is quite possible that Habanos is blending these cigars for a different market.

As for what they're doing right, well, I'm not buying too many NC's lately.

[Ken Gargett]

I smoked a Montecristo Open eagle yesterday and I have to disagree with you Rob on some aspects. It is not a bad cigar, a connoseiur may consider it mediocre with an ugly label, but I believe it to be a well thought sales and marketing concept... like guantanamera. Guantanamera is a bad cigar for almost all of us but they sell well and they are cheap to produce.

The monte open is clearly created -to me- for the American market and that concept of a cigar could potentially broaden the Cuban cigar market, to more occasional smokers and be an excellent base line for new comers.

Using the Montecristo label it is not also a bad idea, it's one of the better known brands and that will lower entry barriers. If they do it well they will not cannibalize the brand either. Many wine brands for instance have their base lines, medium, high and premium lines and it's well accepted.

With this line they are trying to make business, not make cigars for the sommeliers of the cigar world. If it works, good for them!

Sales figures will have the final word. But I believe something good can come out for BT and HSA on this line.

i agree with most of this - not so sure about the not a bad cigar but leave that aside - and i think we alluded to it on the vid except for the fact that they have not priced them in this manner. if they were to draw in non CC smokers, all well and good, but not when they are priced along side monte 2's and so on. why the hell not just smoke the monte 2's? good wine producers will make sure that their different lines represent quality and value for the dosh. these do not. halve the price and you can argue that but as they currently stand, they are doing damage to the name of montecristo.

[anacostiakat]

Here goes!

I positively love their cigars!

I deplore the loss of thinner ring cigars in favor of the behemoths. I also deplore the loss of cabs.

[Ken Gargett]

Taino, you've made a number of points I'd comment on, but in the spirit of the thread, I'll keep my comments to myself

The one point I will comment on is producing a cigar for the "American" market. This is not the first time I've heard this, but I just don't

understand it. Are American smokers idiots, to be force fed pablum and willingly accept it? I think not, and I don't think the American smoker

should be sold short.

If we want to call it a cigar for the casual smoker world wide, that, I think, is a more reasonable assumption.

just got to colt's comments, after my above post. agree re the american market. was told that and when i challenged it - you know who you are (and it was not rob but just a general discussion rather than anything official) - was told that a lot of bars will stock them under the counter in the states. i still don't see that as surely such a big market as to bring these in and why not stock something better? i don't understand that either. the vast majority of americans, even if they have an interest, don't have the access - how can anyone expect them to have the same experiences and knowledge across the board as elsewhere? we have seen many many examples on this forum of americans whose knowledge and experience is absolutely first rate. and there are a bucketload of people from nations with access that have no idea no matter what they think.

3 quick examples.

i have one scungy 'mate' who turns up (much much less these days - perhapos the message got through) merely to find out what he can have. what wine i might have spare (i have seen him dig through garbage to find half finished bottles i have tossed (again, not rob) rather than spend a few dollars at a bottleshop. whenever i have been to cuba he is straight over. i usually bring back a few fakes and he trundles off very happy banging on about how good they are and all sorts of rubbish.

another good mate will go to the world's best restaurants and drinks extraordinary wine (and is very generous with it). terribly fussy about his wine and if i served him something that was not exceptional, i'd be told. yet coffee and cigars? i've seen him drink the breakfast coffee from the giant vat in dodgy hotels and love it. would scar cement but he's back for seconds. and is happy and has no intention of changing. i offer him all sorts of cigars but he much prefers the dreadful little villager things and would knock back a coro in favour of them. so taks all sorts.

finally, in havana once with hamlet in the backroom. a very well dressed, well spoken seal basher (canadians for those not familiar with them) sticks his head in and starts asking hamlet questions about why the cigars are so expensive. gives hamlet the rounds of the kitchen and says he gets better value on the street. we point out that he is buying fakes. he insists that he has tried them and they are perfectly good cigars and off he trundles to buy these dodgy fakes. (not sure you can have non-dodgy fakes).

the point of all that is that, while i could understand if someone said to me that there is an american market which has a preference for a style or producer etc but not for lower quality. that, i just don't get.

[El Presidente]

I might counter with the fact that counterfeits are sold, and smoked by people who don't know any better, world-wide.

Let's look at it from another angle. There is no legal market for Cuban cigars in the U.S. Would HSA really commit a new line of cigars for

a market they don't have? Perhaps some day, but not today.

So in the spirit of this thread, and to help RA maintain the lifestyle he's become accustomed to, kudos to HSA for not creating a cigar for

a market they do not have. Bravo!

This cigar was not created for the American Market. It was created for the casual smoker new to cigars aged 30-45 who associates with Golf, boats, Tennis, polo. It is hoped new upwardly mobile Arab, Asian, American cigar smokers will all be attracted by the marketing hook

It is a marketing concept. That is its failure.

Montecristo No 2 is a first rate cigar with a personality. Montecristo Master is a souless marketing concept.

[jfury76]

If anybody from Habanos is reading this, I would love to be your American guinea pig. Please let some American habanos aficionados in on the new experiment(s) before you release another stick for the young upwardly-mobile professional.

[Smooth]

Positives:

-The exceptional standards and smoke-ability of current production cigars. From 06 onwards have been like 5 year aged smokes right out of the box. The current production is the best I have seen in the 11 years I have been smoking habanos. Marques that are best ever for me out of the box include: Cohiba, Party, Upmann, Monte.

-The revival of classics which seemed to be 'on' for 1 year 'off' for 5 years of production. Mag 46, sir winnie etc... 06 were good, 07 even better, 08 near perfection out of the box.

-Whatever they started doing with regular production cigars in 06 is near perfect practice. Keep up the exceptional work. The more cigars that are stellar our of the box, the more mates I can get into cigars. Because every person my age (26yrs) who can get into it and spend $50-$100 a week on habanos now is going to be kept in the game and spend $500-1000+ per week as we get older and disposable incomes rise. The only way to get people my age in the game for the future is by delivering a brilliant out of the box product, my mates are used to getting perfection instantly its what my generation is used to. No one in my age bracket could care about ageing, those days have to be gone and the product amazing from the get-go to have a volume consumers in 20yrs+

For cuban cigars, that's a bloody positive post! And a good direction for the future. Keep the current production standards up and you will bring in new smokers and blow away the long time smokers.

PS: Habanos SA; dont waste your time with rubbish like the monte opens and EL's. No one cares. If they were a level above reg production, fine. But they haven't been and you're letting down smokers looking for

something premium and or unique.